Murderer may have escaped uk in a veil

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posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Who's claiming that? Certainly not I. In fact, quite the contrary, I have posted against the very idea you espouse we are pushing. Again, feel free to check my posting history on the matter.


Read my post again and point out where I mentioned you. Paranoid, old chap?

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 22/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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As long as Americans know to be cautious of whiny English blokes prattling on about Muslims...

"PC gone mad" type posts are usually a good sign the poster gets hs info from the gutter press or mates down the pub.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006

Read my post again and point out where I mentioned you. Paranoid, old chap?




Stu is not paranoid, he has unfortunately been fielding a constant barrage of rubbish from Aplogists and Denyers all day.

Atleast Stu can post on real life experiences which is better than 50pc of the "text book" social experts here !!

BTW David there is no need to bring such a massive quote to the give a one liner reply !!

Thanks "mate"



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006

Read my post again and point out where I mentioned you. Paranoid, old chap?



Not really. The fact you put in "Glorious England", in quotes, just after someone had pointed out the fact and tried to swipe at me for the exact same thing.....

As for your second post. Learn to read. Where have I got it from the Sun or a bloke from the pub? I used to work in Slough. Anyone who knows Slough will know what I am talking about. I, for over two years, was subject to some quite intense abuse for nearly everything I did as it was "un-muslim"...

Needless to say, it didn't phase me and I rather enjoyed the attention
It was great fun eating Bacon in a room full of Muslims and them trying to convert me was worth filming....

My point being, though, is that I shouldn't even be in that situation!! What right have they to tell me how to live? I couldn't give a rats arse for Mohammed. Jesus can go take a flying leap and as for Moses, well, enough said.

I do not do religion and that is my choice. I believe in Humanity and the ability within myself to make the right choices, not some false Deity, and I do not expect to have someone else's religious beliefs forces upon me.

If they want to worship Allah, Jehovah or the Tooth Fairy, thats fine, but don't expect me to follow suit.

EDIT: For the record, I detets all tabloids. The Sun and the Daily mail the most. If I do buy a paper, I read The Times.

[edit on 21/12/06 by stumason]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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daviduk2006,

IMO stumason has always shown in his posts that he's a level headed person just giving the facts as he sees them. He has no axe to grind, and certainly isn't a racist or an undereducated moron.

Maybe you should get to know people a bit better before hurling insults.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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Cheers chaps for the Vote of Confidence





posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 01:55 AM
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Flammable tag line but its true - the American posters on this thread have no idea what life is like in the UK at all and display a level of sterotypical ignorance befitting of Hillbilly mall vagrants on a trip out from a trailer park in their clapped out old Dodge pickups - but what do you expect from a country where 80% of the population can't even pick out the UK on a map, doesn't own a passport and still thinks that bobbies ride round London in pairs on bikes, or that Dick Van Dyke had a genuine cockney accent? (He was Australian by the way - and there is some rather deep sarcasm in what I've written above - seriously guys, you overdo the stereotypes.)

The story referred to is pure speculation at present. Fact is the guy got away and thats all there is to it.

The Mulsim population makes up about 1% of the population of Great Britian.

We are a tolerant bunch up to a point. The lines not quite been crossed yet but thats because we've put up with a damn site worse over the years such as the events of the Blitz, being terrorised by the - largely American funded - IRA (just so you know - more terror attacks have been carried out in the UK by Irish Catholics than muslims - I have it estimated at something like a 300-1 level for terror acts. Ban communion, shut down the catholic churches and kick the lot of them out of Britain shall we? Stop letting them wear a cross??)

So while we were dealing with Catholofacists, we picked up a bit of a thick skin. Didn't stop us from sending out the odd SAS hit squad though and to be frank I think we're old enough and wise enough to sort out ourselves out without your friendly advice.

There is a very slim possibility that this guy pulled off this stunt, but in a country where you are never more than 90 miles from the coastline its not exactly hard to get out of the UK, and he may just have got out really quickly before the ID photos of him were posted across the Country.

Still, mistakes can be made by security services - After all your own intelligence services apparently missed 27 Arab immigrants on temporary visa's trying to learn how to fly airliners and eventually let them get onto planes with enough weaponry to overcome the flight crew - and that was apparently after repeated warnings from your own people and from other countries as well.

Sorry to be so blunt, but come on guys - you're overdoing it, and if you don't like my bluntness, then don't be so damned arrogant in the first place.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006
You've got your facts wrong, mate.

Well you sure convinced me I was wrong! Are you new to the internet?

[edit on 22-12-2006 by Flyer]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
Flammable tag line but its true - the American posters on this thread have no idea what life is like in the UK at all ........




OK .............

Before we even get started on the rest of your response, could you please list the people " In this Thread" whom are Americans please ?

And to help us familarise ourselfs with your worldly expertise, have you yourself been to the US or outside the UK ?


Thanks in advance.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by neformore

The Mulsim population makes up about 1% of the population of Great Britian.




Well in 2001 it was nearly 3pc, so in 5 short years you managed to get over a Million of them to "nic off" ?

Now i know the answer to that, the question is why would you post such a blatant lie on a forum such as this with readers expecting to read lies ?

Anyhow seen as i seem to know more than you about the Populous makeup of the UK ill also let you know that " Birds of a feather flock together " , these people dont integrate, they form there own countrys within your country !

Places like London Borough of Tower Hamlets where about 40pc of the population are Muslims, that to me shows that they dont want integration but actively Seek seperation !!

Good luck !!



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006

Originally posted by Flyer
The country is so politically correct that he knew no policeman or woman would dare search someone wearing a veil.


You've got your facts wrong, mate.



Really? I think he just hit the nail right on the head. What other excuse would their be to dress like a woman? Did he just feel like expressing his feminine side?


Really, you PC folk are so laughable...



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 03:45 AM
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Anybody who immigrates to another country needs to integrate into society in this case Muslim women need to be prepared to not wear or remove a veil for security purposes. If Muslim women aren't not prepared to do this they should leave the UK or what ever country they are a guest in .

Personally I view Muslims has just another group of people who worship a higher power that dosnt exist.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:36 AM
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The Bomber Behind the Veil
By Farhana Ali

Two recent attacks by female suicide bombers have put the world on notice that Muslim women are playing an increasingly important role in this form of terrorism. Understanding what motivates such women is a vital first step in seeking ways to combat this deadly trend.

Authorities recently determined that Muriel Degauque, a Belgian who married a Muslim and converted to Islam, blew herself up in Iraq on Nov. 9 while trying to attack U.S. troops. Only she was killed. The attack marked the first time a Western woman had been successfully recruited for a jihadist suicide operation.

Earlier, the world was startled by the confession by Sajida Mubarak al-Rishawi, an Iraqi woman who tried and failed to blow herself up alongside her husband in one of the suicide bombings at three hotels in Jordan that killed more than 60 people. Those bombings occurred on the same day that Ms. Degauque detonated herself in Iraq.

About 50 women have carried out suicide attacks in the past five years, and the frequency of such attacks is growing. Muslim female bombers, known as the mujaidaat, have now hit Iraq, Israel, Chechnya, Uzbekistan and Jordan. Though the overall number of female jihadists is small in comparison to men, an attack by a woman in one location could have a rippling effect and serve as a motivator for other women.

The suicide attack by another Iraqi woman in late September may have set the stage for follow-on strikes in the same way the first Palestinian suicide operative, Wafa Idriss, helped spark a series of suicide attacks by Palestinian women. After Ms. Idriss' attack in Jerusalem in January 2002, four women carried out suicide bombings in four months, setting a precedent and creating a culture of female martyrdom that is still honored today in the Palestinian areas of the West Bank and Gaza.

source



So the veil is not a security issue some may say, but this is only one of few examples that make it to the media

The claim that the veil is an act of piety and analogous to wearing a turban is extremely disingenuous because what the veil represents to me is a political statement,. It's a political statement of hostility.

I must ask the question must we wait for another 7/7 to happen which involves a veil to then tackle the issue.? or should we carry on ignoring that more and more muslims are becoming radicalised if not sympathetic to "terrorist" to say in the least. ?


Why not lessent the threat and ban the veil now rather than lashing out with over the top policy's later which will erode all of our freedoms.

Place your bets, how long before a women wearing a veil is used for a succesful terror attack. It is only a matter of time before they succeed again.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006
As long as Americans know to be cautious of whiny English blokes prattling on about Muslims...

"PC gone mad" type posts are usually a good sign the poster gets hs info from the gutter press or mates down the pub.


As far as the gutter press are concerned you must be aware or should be aware that all major press rooms have good investigative reporters not only that it is also common kowledge that journalism is a favourite hang out for spooks, who are fantastic at investigating criminals and getting info that never is allowed to be published.

I think you might be a little whiney if your culture was being eroded all around you, hearing muslim slander your country then take the free house rent paid and business loan if they choose plus benefit for there family of twelve, free education, freedom of speech, freedom to practice their religion, fed atered clothed and shelterd at my expense and when a native applies for a coucl house they are told the cant have one or have to waite years and years, and when you ask why you find there is such a thing as Positive Discrimination against native brits, because they are white and probably have a job ( paying rip off taxes i might add). im not a racist or facist but how can discrimination be positive. How can i pay taxes all my working life yet be entitiled to nothing yet someone who has not paid a penny in gets priority, then these same said people complain how wicked and "racist" we are and deserve death because we are infidels to let them have more freedom than they enjoy were they come from with all the above thrown in


Is it just me or are brits not allowed to speak up about our rights and liberties. ?



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:32 AM
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daviduk2006, are you saying that all the problems relating to race, culture, assimilation and tolerance are the fault of the indiginous white population of the UK and that anyone else is completely absolved of any responsibility, don't you think we've made huge strides in our attitudes to tolerance and acceptance, racial, social or otherwise over the past 30 years, granted it's nowhere near perfect and never will be but your veiws are rather one sided IMO. You're challenging stereotyping and oppression by substituting your own and claiming it as fact.

Sometimes muslims, blacks, gays, women, the disables etc, etc are really crappy people, sometimes other cultures have some real crappy elements to them, it's not because of who they are or where they come from but because humans beings are often crappy to and about each other. We should be able to challenge that and posters like Stumason earn my respect because they do so fairly and accurately not cleaving to either of the tiresom right or left wing hysteria that such topics always encourage.

And whoever thinks this is not a free country, try to find another place that's actually more democratic and balanced...I wont hold my breath.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
OK .............
Before we even get started on the rest of your response, could you please list the people " In this Thread" whom are Americans please ?
And to help us familarise ourselfs with your worldly expertise, have you yourself been to the US or outside the UK ?
Thanks in advance.


Peoples locations tend to be in their avatars, but if you want me to be more specific than that then NumberCruncher - you advise us to get a decent government in the UK, Djohnsto is in Manhattan (admittledly he has posted nothing controversial at all) Xphilesplan is American by attitude.

Stu I have no problem with. Speaks his mind and says it. What I detest is sterotyping of anykind, which is what I was alluding to in my post. I dislike Americans trying to make out that my country has some kind of problem, when it doesn't. I wouldn't even think of trying to advise an American on their countries internal politics because I know so little about the political system over there.

And yes, I have been across Europe, and to the states. Not that its relevant to the thread.

And yeah, I got the %age wrong. My bad. I actually misread a figure - shoot me. Its 3% not 1%, as you quoted. If you like I can quote the rest of the Wiki list that you apparently got your stat about Tower Hamlets from


And to be honest, your statement about "birds of a feather" just struck me as being a little OTT, but to some extents I agree with you. There are Chinese, Eastern European, India, Pakistani, Afro Caribbean communities in Bradford, where I work (16.1% of the population is Muslim in Bradford btw) there is a quarter called Little Germany. Are there not ethnic communities in large cities in the US then?

As for me, I'm a just a normal English guy who seems to manage to get on with every nationality/religion around me. I don't feel scared and I don't feel oppressed. All the real idiots I come across tend to be binge drinking 14-25 year old white youths/young men with attitudes, usually armed with knives and bottles.

Having worked in Bradford and lived in Huddersfield (just down the road) for the past 6 years I can honestly say no one has ever tried to convert me, I have never felt threatened, and the most radical religious people I "experience" are right wing Christian Americans on ATS.

Which is kinda odd.

Anyway - your point was?



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by daviduk2006
Dear Americans,

Here in "Glorious England" we have a long tradition of race hate. Muslims are the current scapegoats





Britain's most senior police officer warned Friday that the security threat to Britain is the highest "since the second world war."
"The level of threat against the United Kingdom is of an unparalleled nature and growing," Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said.

In an interview with the BBC, he said that although there was no specific intelligence on a planned attack over the Christmas and New Year holiday period, the risk was a "much graver threat than that posed by Irish republican terrorism."
The warning comes after Home Secretary John Reid said on December 10 that the chances of an attempted terror attack over the Christmas period are "highly likely."
"We know the number of conspiracies of a major type are in the tens - 30 or round about that," Reid said.

Islamic republic news agency



Muslims are the scapegoats for no reason huh ? i don't think your evaluating the situation correctly.

This is not about racism it's about ideology's.





posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 10:09 AM
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Exactly, its High time that the UK and most of Europe adopted a final solution, these people under the Illusion of seeking a better life are systematically dismantling what your ancestors took thousands of years to build and accomplish.


Ironic how numbercruncher signature calls mulisms nazi's when he's the one that is suggesting a "final solution". And i think it's the perfect statement for what he and his ilk really have planned.


specifically in your current Infidel form, they want you to Submit to there will.They want you enslaved.


Your a real crack up you know that, 20% of Syria is christian, and they've lived there for thousands of years without problem.

The only one who wants to enslave people and force people into their way of thinking are those who want people to abandon religious beliefs and assimilate like robots.

As for people still wanting to migrate to a country that oppresses them, i wonder how many jews wanted to go to germany during hitler's reign.

GOOd posts by Daviduk2006 on 21-12-2006 at 02:25 PM (post id: 2824893) - single - this post (five stars!)

And Pigman on 21-12-2006 at 02:12 PM (post id: 2824875) - single - this post



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by neformore
Flammable tag line but its true - the American posters on this thread have no idea what life is like in the UK at all and display a level of sterotypical ignorance befitting of Hillbilly mall vagrants on a trip out from a trailer park in their clapped out old Dodge pickups - but what do you expect from a country where 80% of the population can't even pick out the UK on a map, doesn't own a passport and still thinks that bobbies ride round London in pairs on bikes, or that Dick Van Dyke had a genuine cockney accent? (He was Australian by the way - and there is some rather deep sarcasm in what I've written above - seriously guys, you overdo the stereotypes.)


You're being just as bad as the "ignorant Americans" with this broad-brush statement. I for one have traveled extensively throughout Europe and have many European friends there. I know European sensibilities seem quite different from American ones at the current time, but that doesn't mean you are right and we are wrong. I think both approaches to the world situation have pluses and minuses.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 03:34 AM
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The Mulsim population makes up about 1% of the population of Great Britian.


Which doesn't mean they couldn't cause 100% chaos and disruption if some of them were radical and extreme enough to do so.


We are a tolerant bunch up to a point. The lines not quite been crossed yet but thats because we've put up with a damn site worse over the years such as the events of the Blitz, being terrorised by the - largely American funded - IRA (just so you know - more terror attacks have been carried out in the UK by Irish Catholics than muslims - I have it estimated at something like a 300-1 level for terror acts. Ban communion, shut down the catholic churches and kick the lot of them out of Britain shall we? Stop letting them wear a cross??)


Well, while not condoning ANY murdering terrorist scum, it's not entirely accurate to compare the two strands. Irish catholics terrorists were not seeking to impose there religion or ideology on anyone else, just seeking to have autonomy and equality for themselves within their native land, in fact you could argue that the British Unionist terrorists were closer in their aims and ambitions to the muslim radicals as they strove to impose an oppressive regime on catholics.

And in the far less politically tolerant and correct 70's and 80's if Irish terrorists were dressing as nuns to avoid capture, do you think the security forces would just be waving them through or checking under their habits.


There is a very slim possibility that this guy pulled off this stunt, but in a country where you are never more than 90 miles from the coastline its not exactly hard to get out of the UK, and he may just have got out really quickly before the ID photos of him were posted across the Country.


But that's more speculation on a thread were speculation is being condemned if it challenges pc sensibilities but waived through if used to minimise the concerns raised.
At least though we have established that some muslims are not above hijacking their own cultures in order to cause disruption, break the law and evade capture and that an open and frank debate about cultural issues such as the veil and how far we should go to accomodate such things at the expense of the rest of society is timely and justified.

Could we also distinguish the difference between offending someone and oppressing them, there's been plenty of offensive observations about Americans on this thread but the authors are not being labelled as bigots for it. This should work both ways.





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