What is happening to the children of today?

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Not sure what is wrong with the "children of today", but I know one thing. If they were drafted (given legal age), they would sure as hell have their acts cleaned up.

Yes, turning people into trained attack dogs for the power elite is very character-forming.

Originally posted by chissler
As soon as I seen Pavlov in the post, I began to shake my head...

Your manipulation of his work here has taken the work of a brilliant man and turned it into something a psychotic maniac would be locked up for.

For one, this post should be removed, two you should be forced to reread this on a regular basis to actually understand what you have condoned.

You have disgusted me.

And you, dear chissler, have deeply, deeply gratified me.

Don't take it too hard. We all walk right into it some time or other. Happy New Year.

Well, I am always willing to agree to disagree on any issue. And it appears you and I have reached that point. I can only count my blessings that I was not born into your Pavlovian house.

As much as I disagree, and am sickened, by some of your thoughts and opinions, I would like to hear what you think on this issue.

Reinforcement Versus Punishment

Originally posted by Astyanax
Yes, turning people into trained attack dogs for the power elite is very character-forming.

spoken like someone who has no idea what he is talking about. the military (all branches, not just the grunts) takes little boys and girls who depend on mommy and daddy for everything and turns them into self-sufficient men and women. my job field is a perfect example of that:

in the big federal radar centers, college graduates with no military experience have about twice the wash-out rate of former military. there is a reason employers prefer people with military backgrounds....they are more mature and tend to stick to their task without giving up at the first sign of turbulance.

Originally posted by snafu7700 there is a reason employers prefer people with military backgrounds....they are more mature and tend to stick to their task without giving up at the first sign of turbulance.

they also tend to be less saddled with issues with authority.

Originally posted by snafu7700
here is a reason employers prefer people with military backgrounds....they are more mature and tend to stick to their task without giving up at the first sign of turbulance.

um, yeah
i've seen some fairly immature military people
sure, they're disciplined
but mature doesn't necassarily fit with the military

i see dogmatic, nationalistic military people
the reformed military people (those who regret that they were involved)
and then i see the ones that joined to get through college and just return to a more disciplined version of themselves

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
um, yeah
i've seen some fairly immature military people
sure, they're disciplined
but mature doesn't necassarily fit with the military

i beg to differ. i'm sure you have seen some immature individuals. cant change everyone...but those individuals dont go very far in my experience. the comment that mature doesnt necessarily fit the military is complete rubbish. some of the most technically challenging career fields in the world are military jobs, and require maturity and discipline, which is why former military seem to do better as controllers than those straight out of college.


[edit on 5-1-2007 by snafu7700]

Um, can we get back to the topic:

"What is happening to the children of today?"

Please read the opening post, if you had forgotten the original topic. Thanks.

What exactly has been off topic? The direction this thread has taken may slightly vary from the initial post, but in any heated discussion, different components are going to be discussed. I can only read one post that has been off topic.

What is happening to the children of today?

Very broad statement. Can you pin point what exactly has been off topic so we know to avoid it in the future?

I think that allowing teachers to carry guns would only make matters worse. You could have the weapon going off by accident, or it could fall into the hands of the wrong person, etc. If people spent more time trying to figure out why we would need to take these measures in the first place, there wouldn't be any need for crazy ideas like teachers carrying guns.

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by Astyanax
Yes, turning people into trained attack dogs for the power elite is very character-forming.

spoken like someone who has no idea what he is talking about. the military (all branches, not just the grunts) takes little boys and girls who depend on mommy and daddy for everything and turns them into self-sufficient men and women...

...whose task is to take the lives of other men and women.

they are more mature and tend to stick to their task...

...killing people...

without giving up at the first sign of turbulance.

(For 'turbulence' read 'humane disgust' and 'pangs of conscience'.)

[edit on 8-1-2007 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by Astyanax

...whose task is to take the lives of other men and women.

no. that is what happens when all else fails. they are trained to kill if necessary, but it is not their primary task. so my original comment still stands: spoken like someone who has never served, and obviously has never researched military life. you are one of those people who simply believes the propaganda and never bothers to check it out for himself.

Originally posted by snafu7700
that is what happens when all else fails.

you are one of those people who simply believes the propaganda and never bothers to check it out for himself.

Well, I live in the middle of a killing war right now, so I imagine I know something about soldiers and how they behave. I myself am a noncombatant.

I know it is received military 'wisdom' that complete success, as defined for a war machine, is that it should never be used. But this is such an obvious canard it barely deserves mention. Any sensible person knows it's just overgrown adolescents brandishing their penile-substitute gadgetry and indulging their bloodlust. The protestations of a soldier are hardly likely to persuade anyone otherwise: the position implies bias.

Don't forget that you, like that other fellow who was 'advising' that adolescents be drafted to improve their discipline, joined the murder machine of your own free will. If that's what pushes your button, fine. But compelling young people to become cannon fodder and training them to blow other people to bits is a stomach-churningly repulsive thing to do.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Well, I live in the middle of a killing war right now, so I imagine I know something about soldiers and how they behave. I myself am a noncombatant.

and i'm just supposed to believe that without any in depth information? the whole world is in the middle of a killing war. IMHO, we are in the first stages of WWIII.....but that's another thread.

I know it is received military 'wisdom' that complete success, as defined for a war machine, is that it should never be used. But this is such an obvious canard it barely deserves mention.

then you might want to pick up a history book and read about how the US and it's allies won the cold war through a policy of using their military as a deterent.

Any sensible person knows it's just overgrown adolescents brandishing their penile-substitute gadgetry and indulging their bloodlust.

no, any sensible person will realize that your entire post is simply propaganda....and very poor propaganda at that. written by someone with no knowledge of how the military really works.

The protestations of a soldier are hardly likely to persuade anyone otherwise: the position implies bias.

no, it's called "experience." you know, when someone has actually been involved, and knows what they are talking about ......oh, yeah, i guess you wouldnt know would you. sorry.

Don't forget that you, like that other fellow who was 'advising' that adolescents be drafted to improve their discipline, joined the murder machine of your own free will. If that's what pushes your button, fine. But compelling young people to become cannon fodder and training them to blow other people to bits is a stomach-churningly repulsive thing to do.

complete and utter crap that is so completely ignorant and biased that it needs no response for people to see it for what it really is.



[edit on 9-1-2007 by snafu7700]

Now I am currently attending Salem High School. Let me give you my opinion.

Now let me start off by saying that I do not blame the children, the parents, or the guns. I do not believe in filing lawsuits against gun companies, or parents for purchasing firearms.

Here is when the problem started. When it started being cool to fight. Currently from what I witness in my peers is disturbing. Drugs are rampant, kids swearing at teachers and ladies, fights occour and no one takes a second look. Except when the Police officer comes, and everyone screams Pig. It is distressing.

I have seen first hand what a distructive culture these kids are into. My Cousin ****** at the tender age of fifteen has already been to a mental health facility and put on suicide watch, Overdosed, been addicted, slept with and left to rot, beat by a boyfriend, arrested, been enrolled in an alternative school, belongs to a gang, had a gun pulled on her, all of this, and she is still a FRESHMEN.

But on whom do I lay the blame? I blame the music industry, I blame the television networks, and I blame the destructive culture she follows.

To me, it seems like she enjoys being in trouble. Her highest grade was a 17 last semester. She is constantly scolded by her grandmother who she affectionatly calles a bitch, and slut almost everyday. Her life is headed in a downward spiral. Her future plans also include being Murdered for her "streets."

Why???

According to her it is just the way she is. It is just her stepping up to be the woman being destined to be. She has a home made gang tatoo on her arm (looks like a star of some kind), and is throwing away her life. But it is all cool, and she is looked up too, and respected by some.

According to her culture, she is awesome. She is the finest example of street soldier there is. She is a gangsta.

But what she dosn't know is that she lives in a LARGE HICKTOWN IN GEORGIA. In my school there is about 2,000 kids there, who are convinced this is Los Angles, and New York City. It is not.

I blame the media for portraying Violence as a good, exciting, constructive thing to do with your life. She looks up to the rappers, and rockers, and wants to bould a large crime empire, selling drugs, and whoring women (or being shot for her "streets").

Also I believe strongly that all teachers should be able to carry firearms, and be properly trained on how to use them.







[edit on 11-1-2007 by Ford Farmer]

Their intelligence level is being brought down immensely, even the supposed smart ones are as dumb as rocks. There are still intelligent kids out there but they teach themselves and know the importance of understanding the meaning of everything they learn. 90% of "learned" people today only know the definitions of words and their mathematical skills are very basic, they are too easily fooled. They can do math only when it is obvious, when it resembles a problem in some book, when they encounter anything new that requires them to think they either can't or struggle for hours on end.

An example of the average student today: "Hey guys the word of the day is home fries." I always suspected that words came in pairs but that doesn't bother me at all, it's that I'll have to hear it all semester. This same person finds the material we have to study absolutely boring, I'm sure he'll make a fabulous engineer someday.

Here is when the problem started. When it started being cool to fight.

It's always been cool to fight. It is not a new phenomenon. It's part of growing as a human. Sorry, but 150 years of higher understanding, does not rid our species of our deepest, ingrained survival instincts.

The media didn't make it cool to fight. Humans are addicts. Violence and other imagery that produce high volumes of brain chemicals are addicting. Remember, the media is you and me. If we as humans, didn't enjoy watching, hearing and debating these things; they wouldn't be in the media. Hollywood movies would all be of the 'My Girl' persuasion.

Teachers don't need guns.

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by Astyanax
Well, I live in the middle of a killing war right now...

and i'm just supposed to believe that without any in depth information?

Yes. Why should I lie for a reason as trivial as making a point on an Internet message board? I have a life, as it happens. One -- as it happens -- that is under constant and daily threat from uniformed men with guns.

(The putative definition of) success, as defined for a war machine, is that it should never be used. But this is such an obvious canard...

then you might want to pick up a history book and read about how the US and it's allies won the cold war through a policy of using their military as a deterent.

The US won the Cold War by outspending the Soviet Union in an arms race at a time when the latter's grip on its empire was being challenged from within. Your military didn't win the Cold War. Your economy did. And -- possibly unlike you -- I am old enough to remember the Cold War and the terror it inspired in ordinary people living under the shadow of the Bomb. The policy of deterrence you tout brought the world to the very brink of nuclear war over and over again.

overgrown adolescents brandishing their penile-substitute gadgetry and indulging their bloodlust...

no, any sensible person will realize that your entire post is simply propaganda....

In your own words, pick up a book, friend. A psychology textbook.

Don't forget that you... joined the murder machine of your own free will... But compelling young people to become cannon fodder and training them to blow other people to bits is a stomach-churningly repulsive thing to do.

complete and utter crap that is so completely ignorant and biased that it needs no response for people to see it for what it really is.

Fortunately, others will make their own judgement in that regard.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by Astyanax]

As "interesting" as some of the above discussion is, what exactly does it have to do with, "What is happening to the children of today?"

I had come in excited to see some new developments, but unfortunately I see little to add as not much on the discussion has evolved.

If possible, let's try to turn this one around and give it a go again.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
It's always been cool to fight. It is not a new phenomenon. It's part of growing as a human. Sorry, but 150 years of higher understanding, does not rid our species of our deepest, ingrained survival instincts.

It has always been cool to fight for a "portion" of the population. Just as it has always been uncool to fight for the other portion. I'm not one for physical contact, and have never been. I am young, athletic build, and very involved in "physical" sports, but I believe fighting to be childish, immature, and nothing but a means for insecure people to settle petty disputes.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
The media didn't make it cool to fight. Humans are addicts. Violence and other imagery that produce high volumes of brain chemicals are addicting.

I would have to agree with this. As much violence as we see on the mainstream media, people were violent well before we were spoon fed this nonsense. Whether or not is an addiction, well that is up to the individual to determine.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
Remember, the media is you and me. If we as humans, didn't enjoy watching, hearing and debating these things; they wouldn't be in the media.

That is an interesting thought, and one I had long agreed with. But if you think about it, if it were the only option, over time would it not be forced upon us? If all we are fed is murder and rape, after awhile would it not become inevitable that it be the topic of interest and discussion? If we didn't talk about it, would they only try harder? Or would they pack it up?

I think fear is a tool of the media, and little would change.

But all of this leaves the question, Is the Media severely influencing the children?

We can not change what the media feeds us, we can only change the channel. As parents, I believe it is their responsibility to monitor what exactly they watch. To place blame on the media for showing it, would be bypassing the true recipient of the blame, the parents. Parents can not be responsible for every behaviour of their child, but they are responsible for what their children watches on television. So if we are trying to say the media is responsible, well I believe that is only another indication that it is actually the responsibility of the parents to step in.

I'm 36 years old... ( no comments )...

Before I stepped out of my front door for the first bus ride to school, or in the first class room, office, lunch room... I was told by my parents

BEHAVE!!! BE RESPECTFUL!!! LISTEN TO THE TEACHERS!!!

bottom line.

It all starts at home... respect and obey your parents, respect and obey all elders, teachers etc.

I knew that if I went to school and got in trouble, I'd have to answer to it at school and again when I got home!

I know.. I know... parenting is different today then it was.... yeah, it's a shame too... I think more kids need thier bottoms busted early on in childhood and taught what is right and wrong and what is acceptable behavior in public and at home.

It starts at home with the parents. If there are parents who feel they can't handle teaching the kids right and wrong, they need to seek assistance, someone will help.

Kids today are too smart for thier own good, threatening to sue parents, and call children services when they don't get what they want. I never dreamed of doing such a a thing as a kid.

I think that today's entertainment industry also has a great deal to do with our kids behavior today. Again, it's up to the parents as to what the children are exposed to.

okay, just a quick 2 cents from me....