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The history of religion.

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posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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Just click on play and see the history and place of origin unfold in for you.

Very neat. I didnt know that Krishna was the first religion!

History of Religion.

McP




posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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I tried posting this before with out logging in my account but it was sent some where else so here it is again.

Vedic is the religion they are referencing as Krishna. At the latest it can be traced back to 5000 years B.C. Due to some of the astrological explainations in the early Vedic writings it can be traced back as far as 15,000 years B.C.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Hinduism was not the first religion, a form of Animalism, or nature worship of some kind.. the "peagan" .. you see not all religions are mentioned.. like Greek Mythology or Roman Mythology..

Hinduism WAS however the very first "major" religion .. at least that still exist.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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Greek and Roman mythology can be traced back only 1000 to maybe 1,500 B.C.
The Egyptian book of the dead is traced back to 3,000 B.C.
The Vedas can be traced back 5,000 to maybe 15,000 B.C. It is also stated that before Yvasedeva (an incarnation of Lord Krishna) wrote down the Vedas they were passed down mentally from Guru to disciple in a chain. Which may mean that the Vedas are actually older then 15,000 B.C. The Vedas and Lord Krishna predate hinduism and in essence are not the same. As the Vedas are a direct contact to Lord Krishna. They are a manual for your material exsistence. And teach you alot about your soul and how to understand Krisna the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Where as Hinduism does not speak the glories of Lord Krishna as he is but more or less lumps him in with the demi gods who are parts of his energy and are controlled by him.
I do not believe you can find Pagan whorship recorded before the Vedas .



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 04:52 PM
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Yeah. You can. "Pegan" - Nature worship, animism, various folk lore are much older then any organized religion. It is infact these small little religions which where normally confined to communities that large scale religions where formed, as a large population base is needed to feul it's existance, and it can be assured Vedas are not 15,000 years old, I have never heard, read that claim before, it is roughly 3-3.5 thousand years old. Egyptian Mythology may be as old or older, and the mythology in which it sprang from, which we have no records of pre-exist that. Then the gods of the first civilizations in the Fertil Crecent date to about 6,000 years old and consist of various mythologies. Hindusism is mearly the first "large" scale religion, and guessing from the map in question only religions still in existance are actually named.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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I'm by no means an expert, and have not studied this academically. I spent some of last year doing online and library research into the history of cultural and religious evolution and "mutation" over time. I was just curious.

My understanding (while by no means conclusive or particularly reliable) is that the earliest mystical or spiritual practices were animistic in nature. Divination is speculated to have been carried out using natural markers, slaughtered animals, the behavior of animals, etc. The proto-indo-european culture is believed to have included a caste system with rulers, clerics and other priest-like roles, warriors and hunters, and peasant or animal husband castes.

It is my understanding that at this time appeared the first conceptualization of a “tiered” view of reality. The heavens “above,” physical living Earth “in the middle,” and the underworld “beneath” Earth, together were supported and connected by a “world tree” in some conceptions, and in others, the primordial sea or “abyss” from whence everything else came. These were perceived not only as being the source of life and all divine and human (and animal) beings, but also as the “network” or “medium” in which all else in the universe – Gods, humans, animals, Earth, etc. – existed. It was a tree connecting the various “tiers” of reality, while simultaneously being a “sea” or “abyss” holding everything within itself; the underlying “stuff” or “structure” of existence.

It is theorized that in time the proto-indo-european culture became the proto-indo-iranian and indo-european cultures. Elements of distinctly Indian and Persian cosmology such as Mitras and Mithra may have shared common lineage with the proto-indo-iranian culture. There was a shared indo-Iranian deity known as Mitra. This was not merely a deity, but an archetype of sorts; the notion of oaths, contracts, agreements, covenants, laws, and order. Among the indo-Iranians, this concept was closely associated with one group of divinities over the other – the ansu (which may be the original form of the Indian asuras associated with heat, fire, light, and Varuna, a solar deity of sorts) rather than the deiwo (which may be the original form of the Indian devas.) Mitra was apparently one of the original “law giver” deities, responsible for order, equity, equality, fairness, justice, and agreements, promises, oaths, etc. The Indian Mitras is likewise closely associated with the asuras, and would later be closely identified with a subsequent Vedic take on the asuras, Varuna.

As the Indian and Persian "branches" of this shared or closely related cosmology diverged, the Indian version appears to have applied benevolence or usefulness to the devas, while applying menace (or at least destructiveness) to the asuras. Conversely, the Persian incarnation appears to have venerated the asuras, which may also be the source of Zoroastrian (and Zoroastrian forebears') Ahura.

Around (if memory serves) 6,000 years ago, a city known as Ugarit had its own cosmology which may be historically significant. In it, El was the name given to the supreme, paternal, heavenly God. El was the being who, to those of Ugarit, co-created the heavens and Earth with the primordial abyss or “cosmic sea” which the Ugarit cosmology describes as a prototypical Earth Goddess. Serving El directly on Earth were lesser deities, the Elohim. Ruling the Elohim was Hadad, various described as a shepherd. The Elohim dwelled on a holy mountain, and their leader was El’s Earthly representative on the holy mountain, Hadad. The lawgiver deity of Ugarit was Yamm. Just as Mitra was associated with ansu/asuras, Yamm was one of the lesser divinities (Elohim) serving El, the “host of lesser Gods” who dwelled on the holy mountain. Like Sumerian Enlil, he was appointed prince and king over the other Gods (including Hadad) by El. Importantly, he was also appointed judge and arbiter over the other deities. This is important, because it signifies that he was indeed a law giver deity of sorts, and was associated with equity and fairness. In order to keep his position as judge and prince of the Gods, he would have to defeat Hadad. Hadad defeated Yamm, and cast him into the primordial abyss. Yamm was often characterized as a sea serpent. The God of the underworld was Mot, who like Sumerian Sin, was associated with change, birth, death, and rebirth. Hadad was said to have descended into the underworld and to have contended with Mot, emerging three days later. This has (in my mind at least) very obvious similarities to subsequent cosmology surviving today.

An was Sumeria’s El. An was the heavenly God and was supreme, while Nammu was the name given to the primordial abyss or “sea.” She too, as in Ugarit, was viewed as a Goddess, but was more a heavenly Goddess; a feminine counterpoint to An. Earth itself was represented by Ki (later also called Ninhursag, Niman, and Nintu in various iterations and forms.) Enki was the closest Sumerian equivalent of Hadad, and with Ki was one of the co-creators of humanity. The Sumerian equivalent of Yamm was Enlil. Enlil, like humanity, was co-created by Enki and Ki, however he was granted a higher rank (like Yamm was.) He was given the rank of “king of the Gods,” and it was said that human cities could not rise without his blessing. He was considered a city ruling deity, and thus law giver as well. He was inventor of agricultural tools, and was banished to the underworld by Enki for his rape of a human woman, Ninlil. The offspring of this rape was a being called Sin. Sin was also a law giver, and decreed human rulers. Sin begat Utu, the sun God representing justice. Utu is variously associated with sun, fire, heat, flame, justice, and the power of human rulers. (Continued below)



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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(Continued from above)

Meanwhile, in the indo-european culture (which appears to have been isolated from whatever caused the dichotomy in beliefs regarding the ansu and deiwo between the Persian and Indian conceptions thereof,) something akin to the ansu and deiwo were acknowledged and professed to exist. They were seen as nature spirits, and the animism and world tree beliefs and practices persisted, without morphing into more coherent cosmologies and pantheons as the indo-Iranian, Indian and Iranian/Persian branches did/would. Over time, these beliefs took on increasing seasonal and agricultural relevance, incorporating seasonal, astrological, lunar, and solar cycles to form a natural pantheon and mythology that would later feed into Norse, Celtic, and other traditions.

5,300 years ago or so, totally distinct Persian and Indian cosmologies had formed. In the Indus Valley Civilization, which was a prominent trading partner of Sumeria, the foundations and earliest concepts of the rigvedas are believed to have been fully formulated. There, a solar deity called Varuna was regarded as one of the asuras and was closely associated with Mitras, the law giver and ruler or order, laws, oaths, and contracts. The devas were seen as more recent, beneficial entities, and guides for proper human conduct. Sumerian and Ugaritian cosmology were largely unchanged, however Utu (the solar offspring associated with Sin) was glorified and personified, representing justice and order. Utu was also accompanied by a sibling, Inana. She was cognate with Ugarit’s worship of Venus, and was herself often associated with Venus. One famous Sumerian myth from the epic of Gilgamesh tells a story in which a tree watered by the Euphrates river was uprooted by a strong wind and carried to Inana’s garden. There Inana – the offspring of Sin – tended to the tree, hoping to make a bed to rest in and a throne to sit in from its wood. After many years of lovingly tending the tree, however, she discovered that a bird had made a nest for its young in its branches (which may represent heaven if this was analogous to the “world tree” mentioned earlier,) an anthropomorphic demon had made a home for itself in its trunk (which would be Earth,) and a dragon or wild serpent had made a home for itself in its roots (which would be the underworld or metaphysical void.) One potential interpretation of this myth is that the world tree (underlying structure of the universe as it relates to the physical plane of Earth and Earth’s connection to the rest of the physical and metaphysical cosmos) had been corrupted by Enlil who was banished to the underworld, Sin – Enlil’s forbidden offspring – on Earth, and overseen by the Gods of the heavenly realms, and thus impossible for Sin’s subsequent offspring (including Inana and, presumably, all subsequent human elite) to utilize or partake of. (Note: This may have influenced later human creation myths such as the Garden of Eden.) Interestingly, Inana also entered the underworld and emerged after three days, as Hadad had done when confronting Mot. Both of those myths also concern themselves with deceiving the denizens of the underworld in some fashion in order to penetrate and escape from the realm of death. Lastly, at this time the Persian ancestor cosmology of what would eventually become Zoroastrianism regarded the asuras (the ansu/Varuna in Indian cosmology by this point) as the supreme Godhead, and viewed Mithra (Mitras in the Indian version, where he was associated with the asuras) as an angelic entity and protector of human wellbeing. The asuras would eventually become the Zoroastrian supreme deity Ahura, accordingly.

3,500 to 4,000 years ago, the Vedic foundation of Hinduism was completed in India. Elamite invasions of Sumeria weakened centralization of power there. This allowed Amorites already living there to grain greater power and prominence. The Amorites worshipped a God combining Sumerian mythology and something akin to Ugarit’s cosmology – a heavenly patriarch similar to Hadad, but which was the son of Sumerian An (which is cognate with Ugarit’s El more or less.) They called this God Amurru, and perceived him as dwelling, like Hadad, on a holy mountain upon which he ruled over a great host of lesser divinities. This God was viewed as a shepherd and just ruler. They also worshipped Sin, however. The rise of this Amorite power in Sumeria and their new governance style resulted in further decentralization of power, which split Sumeria into disparate, local city states. The clerical and kingly castes no longer wielded as much power, and these city states became thriving mercantile centers.

I could go on, but I think this (those parts of it which are correct at least; as I said, I’m far from being an expert – in fact, I’d like people to read this and correct me if possible! Thank-you) is sufficient to give an interesting look at how religion can mutate and morph down through the ages. It fascinates me endlessly, and reminds me a lot of the ways music has evolved over time, which subsequent generations being influenced or inspired by the previous ones.



posted on Jan, 10 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Very good Ace.. Very good indeed.

You may just be an expert after all eh?

I forget what the main point of the thread is though. Is it about the map? If it is, I don't like it. If it is about what was the first religion then that would be like you and I said, Mystism, or Animalism or some kind of nature worship.



posted on Jan, 11 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Read the Enuma Elish, that is one of the first artificats written about religion. It sets the boundaries and regulations of why there is gods, what they do, and how they were used during these times.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 12:36 PM
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"5,300 years ago or so, totally distinct Persian and Indian cosmologies had formed. In the Indus Valley Civilization, which was a prominent trading partner of Sumeria, the foundations and earliest concepts of the rigvedas are believed to have been fully formulated." posted by acewombat04



The early Indus people are actually a later form of the Vedic civilization.
The Rg Veda is one of 4 original Vedas handed down mentally from guru to disciple. The Vedas at one point were 1 Veda with only a few lines to it.
Back then only the vasnavias and brahamans were allowed axcess to the Vedas. At this point they were the only educated people who could speak or read sanskrit (which in essence is known as the language of the demigods) or understand it. One word in sanskrit can have alot of meanings and can complete one sentence. That is to say where we need many words to make a sentence sanskrit needs one word (or at least back then).
As they progressed closer to Kali yuga things began to change and the Vedic people began to lose touch with god more and more. Then they realised the needed to expand on the Vedas which meant they would be split into 4. Each Veda was then given to a guru (1 Veda for 1 guru) and he passed it on to his disple. Later on as Kali Yuga came closer they had to write the Upinosads which are the basic interpertations of the 4 Vedas. Much of this dates back 5,000 B.C. or more years. The mahabratta (spelling???) was written around this time and contained the Bhagavad Gita which was a conversation between Krishna and Arjuna which predated it by a couple thousand years.

Yes Krishna was recorded as appearing 3,000 B.C ago by modern day scholars (who for years denied his exsistence in the first place), but he has incarnated to this earth in this form and others since the manifestation of the universe. When he appeared 3,000 B.C. the Vedic society had already been established as he was born to 2 devotees.
which would make the Vedic society much older then 3,000 B.C.

Much of this can be found on the Veda database online or through Krishna.com or by going to your local ISKCON Temple and talking to a punja (priest) or devotee. Most of the brahamacharies in the temple have spent most of there lives learning about Krishna and the Vedic coulture, and more then likely have spent a good deal of time in India especially in Vhrindavan.

As far as Pagan animal rites........We can look at this in 2 ways.
1) modern day scientist would like you to believe that we spent our first couple of thousand years walking around grunting and carring clubs and whorshipping animals as we got smarter.

2)According to the Vedas....... at the start of man we were kinda manifested here materially and had all the knowledge we needed to go back to godhead, and to survive here on earth, but as time went on the material energy that we are sourounded by on this earth began to take control and we in essence got dumber.

Im gonna go with assumption #2...... take a look at history and how much smarter some societies (not all but most big one) were back then,
then we are now. Example .......the pyramids the egyptians/hebrews built them and we cant figure out how. If we are proggressing to get smarter then we should be able to figure out what they did.



posted on Jan, 12 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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My mind is definitely open to those possibilities. Thank-you for sharing your insights with me and with all those who may read this thread. Your #2 hypothesis is an interesting one that I've never heard before. There isn't much (if anything) that I won't consider as possibilities or potential explanations for things unless I am given concrete reasons not to.



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