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David Irving Released From Austrian Prison

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posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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After spending the last thirteen monthe languishing in an Austrian prison for expressing an opinion, Holocaust Revisionist David Irving has been released from custody.


David Irving, the historian jailed for three years in Austria for denying the Holocaust, is free after a court reduced his prison sentence on appeal.

Irving, who was sentenced in February, was released after Vienna's highest court ruled today that he should serve one year in prison and the remainder of his sentence on probation.

After already serving 13 months behind bars since his arrest in November 2005, Irving had his handcuffs removed today in a small courtroom crowded with his supporters and members of the local press.

"He is free, and he can leave, and he will leave," said Herbert Schaller, his lawyer, adding that he would advise the historian to leave Austrian soil as soon as possible.


Link


Irving, arrested in November 2005 when he entered Austria to lecture far-Right groups, was prosecuted under a law targeting those who deny the genocide by the Nazis or other Nazi crimes against humanity. The law calls for a prison term of up to 10 years.


Link

No matter what your opinion is of the man, one cannot deny the fact that he should never have been imprisoned.

When we start locking people up for expressing their viewpoints (no matter how misguided), we start down the slippery slope to dictatorship.

The current wave of placing these Revisionists under arrest and burning their published works is eerily similar to the climate of Nazi era Germany.

Once people start burning books, burning people is not far off.

To quote George Orwell:


If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... Is it true about the gas ovens in Poland?


Der Spiegel

Irving is not yet out of the woods though, as he remains held in an "immigration prison".

[edit on 20/12/2006 by Beelzebubba]




posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:14 AM
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Lovely. So he can go on spewing his hatred in the guise of "historical research".

I've had this argument here once before, but my question still remains where does freedom of speech end and preaching of hate begin? When does the protection of the minority viewpoint go too far? My own opinion is when something like Holocaust denial or revisionism if you prefer, becomes somehow a legitamate viewpoint worthy of protection under freedom of speech clauses.

Yes its a slippery slope to tread. But not all viewpoints are as worthy of protection as others. My humble opinion, and I know many of you will not share it.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Expressing an opinion should never result in jail time. At least not in any "civilized" modern nation.

I happen to question quite a lot of the facts regarding the holocaust, including the final death toll. The only reason I find any discussion regarding the final death toll important is that there is an entire industry set up to exploit the guilt surrounding the holocaust. The holocaust is also used as a cover in which murder and occupation is carried out free from scrutiny or rebuke.

Since I feel this way, I too would be imprisoned in a supposedly civilized state such as Austria. This runs completely counter to what we regard as basic civil rights.

Neither I, nor David Irving for that matter, are calling for the deaths of Jewish people. So why jail people who question less than dubious historical "fact"? Is it to cover up something? If I questioned the 20 million civilian Russian dead due to WW2 why wouldn't I be jailed too?

[edit on 23/12/06 by subz]



posted on Dec, 24 2006 @ 02:01 AM
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He wouldn't have been jailed in the U.S. since we have the first amendment. Simple "hate speech" is protected speech, as long as it doesn't cross the line into being a clear and present danger of inciting violence, which the questioning of the Holocaust is definitely not.

Still, American law isn't Austrian law, and he apparently did break the laws of Austria and was legally incarcerated there under their law. We can disagree with their law, but it doesn't seem that they did anything improper under their system.



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
After spending the last thirteen monthe languishing in an Austrian prison for expressing an opinion, Holocaust Revisionist David Irving has been released from custody.


David Irving, the historian jailed for three years in Austria for denying the Holocaust, is free after a court reduced his prison sentence on appeal.

Irving, who was sentenced in February, was released after Vienna's highest court ruled today that he should serve one year in prison and the remainder of his sentence on probation.

After already serving 13 months behind bars since his arrest in November 2005, Irving had his handcuffs removed today in a small courtroom crowded with his supporters and members of the local press.

"He is free, and he can leave, and he will leave," said Herbert Schaller, his lawyer, adding that he would advise the historian to leave Austrian soil as soon as possible.


Link


Irving, arrested in November 2005 when he entered Austria to lecture far-Right groups, was prosecuted under a law targeting those who deny the genocide by the Nazis or other Nazi crimes against humanity. The law calls for a prison term of up to 10 years.


Link

No matter what your opinion is of the man, one cannot deny the fact that he should never have been imprisoned.

Of course you can. He commited a crime. Nazi holocaust revisionists are NOT merely expressing an opinion. It is perfectly legitimate for a state to Outlaw Nazism.


When we start locking people up for expressing their viewpoints (no matter how misguided), we start down the slippery slope to dictatorship.

Thats bollocks. Guys like these nazi revionists were the ones that WANT a dictatorship. If people had locked up hitler for good, even before his Beer Hall Putsch, then that would've prevented a dictatorship.


The current wave of placing these Revisionists under arrest and burning their published works is eerily similar to the climate of Nazi era Germany.

THere's nothing eery or disturbing about locking up Nazis. The Nazis overthrew the german state, they murdered over six million germans, and engaged in genocide against their own countrymen. Its perfectly acceptable for Nazism to be illegal.


Once people start burning books, burning people is not far off.

Lets not forget that its the people that Irving is working for are the ones that were burning millions of people.



djohnsto77
Simple "hate speech" is protected speech, as long as it doesn't cross the line into being a clear and present danger of inciting violence, which the questioning of the Holocaust is definitely not.

Its not a matter of these holocaust revisionists being hateful, its a matter of them being nazis, and its a matter of suppressing nazism. All nazis, especially in Germany, should be arrested, locked up, and either thrown out of the country, or held indefinitly. Just like the US used to suppress communism, or any other political organization who's 'opinion' was that there should be a violent revolution against the state.



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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David Irving wasn't imprisoned for anything to do with Nazism, he was imprisoned for holocaust denial. Nazism has nothing to do with it. I'd be classed as a holocaust denier (since scepticism of anything involving the holocaust garners the entire "denial" moniker) but I'm definitely not a Nazi, or believe in any of their ideals.

So, Nygdan, do you believe questioning the events around the historical event known as the Holocaust should be illegal? You've given us your views on neo-Nazi behaviour, how about Holocaust denial (which isn't one and the same)?



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Nygdan,

I would like to see any evidence to back your claims that Holocaust Revisionists are Nazi's. Maybe you have copies of Memberships, pics of them in uniforms and burning synagogues.

I would also like to see any evidence of Irving inciting hatred of Jews in any of his work.

Or is it a case of merely questioning a controversial topic being hateful enough?

Should the Orthodox Jews that went to Iran for the Holocaust conference be imprisoned and branded Nazi's for questioning aspects of the Holocaust?

Am I a Nazi for questioning aspects of the Holocaust? I sure don't feel like one, having friends of many creeds and quite liberal views.

So, you think there is nothing frightening about locking people up for expressing a controversial viewpoint?

Are there any other historical events that you think deserve imprisonment for discussing? The actuality of the 1945 ethnic cleansing of Palestine perhaps?



posted on Dec, 29 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Of course you can. He commited a crime. Nazi holocaust revisionists are NOT merely expressing an opinion.


A crime against who? Where is the line between expressing a opinion and a thought crime of sorts?


It is perfectly legitimate for a state to Outlaw Nazism.


The state has no power to do anything without being given a mandate by the citizens it supposedly represents? You think they would have outlawed speaking about this subject matter if no one did? Did they ever get a mandate?


Thats bollocks. Guys like these nazi revionists were the ones that WANT a dictatorship.


Huh?


If people had locked up hitler for good, even before his Beer Hall Putsch, then that would've prevented a dictatorship.


Hitler were not locked up for good because he was sponsored into power by European bankers knowing full well what he would do once he gained control of the German state. This was no accident and only a assassins bullet ( a patriotic German who saw the danger Hitler posed ) could have prevented this part of history from following a pre designed script as laid out by the same old powerful families.


THere's nothing eery or disturbing about locking up Nazis.


A state with the power to lock people up for what they say should not exist at all.


The Nazis overthrew the german state, they murdered over six million germans,


Murdered?


and engaged in genocide against their own countrymen. Its perfectly acceptable for Nazism to be illegal.


I don't see the connection between Irving and Nazism as practiced by the leading proponents of that cult in the 30's and 40's?


Lets not forget that its the people that Irving is working for are the ones that were burning millions of people.


You mean there is still a Nazi organization with such power that they can pay so many people to spread lies? This sounds like a conspiracy to me and we all know those are not possible on such scales? Why don't the German government find this powerful group that sponsors neo-nazism?

When did they burn those millions of people any ways as burning a human body in anything but a incinerator is simply impossible? You really believed that they heaped bodies in pits and that all traces of them disappeared by merely setting fire to them? I can stand people questioning not so obvious historical realities but physics?


Its not a matter of these holocaust revisionists being hateful, its a matter of them being nazis,


Neo cons( and the general American national security state) have killed more people than Nazi's have in the twentieth century so i could not really care less about a few stupid people who hate someone for more obvious reasons like a different culture or skin colour. I can inform such people as to why their doing the wrong thing but what can i do about the Neo cons and their allies in Europe who want to destroy the human species itself?


and its a matter of suppressing nazism. All nazis, especially in Germany, should be arrested, locked up, and either thrown out of the country, or held indefinitly.


So basically we want a police state to ensure that people's rights are not abused? How many people have Neo nazi's in Germany killed in the last few decades?


Just like the US used to suppress communism, or any other political organization who's 'opinion' was that there should be a violent revolution against the state.


If you think that you do not know the first thing about the history of US intervention all over the world for the last century or more. I'm not going away and however misguided ( not all that much compared to the types of people who runs entire nations imo ) Irving was or still is he did not deserve jail time even if it largely came about by choices he knowingly made.

Stellar



posted on Jun, 14 2007 @ 03:55 AM
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Lovely. So he can go on spewing his hatred in the guise of "historical research".


Seagull have you ever read what David Irving writes, or even bothered trying to speak with him ?

I have. He is a fairly reasonable person. He does not spew hatred any more than any member of this forum does.

I don't agree with David but I have often corresponded with him and he is a meticulous researcher. When David says something he does not merely quote an opinion (unlike many people here). He takes the time to research things thoroughly and then bases his comments on observable facts.

I differ with him in interpretation of many things but he is no monster.



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