a reply to: FlySolo
Glad you pointed that out, but I already knew. I have a real hard time trying to get my head around 'any speech' when this is the case. Type,
delete, type again, backspace...it's very troublesome side stepping T&C and angry mods. Stifling.
Then you have issues with any and all forms of online media, as any of them that are not designed as public spaces, are private spaces and therefore
have no right to freedom of speech. Nor should they.
Then ATS needs transparency. If a member is being disciplined, then WE need to see which moderators are doing it. WE need to have access to
what you see, if only temporary during the the deliberation process. Being left in the dark while the possibility of mod prejudice and bias exists, is
The simple answer to this is no. It's none of your business, nor anybody else's
but the people involved. We govern according tot he T&C,
and by no means are we obligated to show you our process or to 'prove' that we aren't doing something you don't approve of.
We've never given ATS members any kind of reason to believe that we are anything different, than what we've always claimed to be. A group of people
with various interests and opinions, who have come together to help run a successful website.
Furthermore, part of ATS' success relies on the fact that we as staff are trusted to run things according to the guidelines set in front of us by
owners and admin. We do this for free, there is no ulterior motive for us to do anything but what the T&C states.
See the grey area?
Are you implying that by having it any other way, there would be less grey areas? I agree, there are grey areas, which is why again, we moderate
based on consensus. I may not agree with a particular post removal, but if 8 other staff do, then that's what's going to happen.
Regardless of our individual opinions.
As for post removals, we should be given the opportunity to grab a thesaurus before that happens and given a chance to "rephrase" the
offending remark. As it is now, there is no recourse.
Of course there is no recourse. Nobody forced you to press REPLY. You decided of your own volition to type those words and send them out to the
boards. Perhaps I would encourage you and other members to think before they post.
One more thing. A statute of limitations is needed. Mods shouldn't be allowed to go back months or years to remove a post and have it count
towards you in one final swoop against your 5 strikes.
That's actually already a rule we have. ATS does not go back in time to look for things to action. 95% of ALL actions taken are the direct
result of a member complaint
. The only things that we would consider above that rule are egregious violations like gore, porn, exceptional
racism, glorifying of Hitler, you know that sort of thing.
The way ATS staff has done things and will continue to do things, has worked. Wonderfully, without much problems. Sure mistakes happen, sure the
right call isn't always made, but we deal with that.
And we deal with it privately, among those who were involved, such as the member and those specific staff members.
I'll leave you with a few sections of the T&C, that may further your understanding.
24) Right of Community Management. This is a privately owned discussion board community. TAN reserves the right to take action against any
member, or member Posting, which is deemed to be devoted purely to disruption, represents behavior contrary to community building, or in cases where
the content is contrary to the core ideals of the Websites. This action may include removal of your Posting and/or complete banning of your username
and IP address. TAN reserves the right to eliminate or edit any content deemed inappropriate for the discussion boards, news network or any affiliated
sites. TAN reserves the right to establish limits on topics that may be discussed if, in their opinion, the discussion of those topics attract an
audience that is counterproductive to maintaining the ideals set forth in the Terms and Conditions of Use and the Terms and Conditions of Membership.
21b) Cooperation: You will, if asked by TAN, cease to Post any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor
taste by TAN, in its sole discretion.
Bottom line, these are the rules that the owners of ATS, have decided are what must be followed. They aren't going to change.
If members do not like what they signed up for, then they are free to log out and not return. I don't want that to happen, but you're never going
to please everybody, and quite frankly that's not our goal.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you had actions taken against your own account, and you want to discuss it, then you can do that. You
just need to file an alert, or PM the staff members in question. Although the fastest way to get a response is via the complaint feature, considering
any individual you may PM, may not come online for extended periods of time.
Since we have lives in RL, and we do this entirely for free, because we love this community.