How Not To Be Banned From ATS...

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posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
And a return SU-FI my friend.


My, Oh my. Zed, the hippest kat around. Yeah, I spelled it with a K.

Too funny though man. Right back at yah.





posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
We don't discuss sordid details, but what most of you fail to realize is that there is always a discussion/conversation going on behind the scenes between the problem members and staff.


Once a member has been banned, should not the remaining members be made privy to the full cause for that banning... including, at least, the means to sort through the sordid details and behinds the scences discussion that occured?

Perhaps a Forum dedicated to banned members... with cited references to their offences? Or is this Guantanamo?



We work as a team around here and several moderators and staff on various levels all give input, try their methods of communication, etc, before action is taken. In the case of the above mentioned member it comes right back to being polite.


I'll give you that Binbush was a sarcastic, 20 year old male, who's language was full of self censored cursing and intimidation drama. His character was representitive of immaturity and a lack of self esteem; it could have been nurtured, rather than ousted, by the supposed enlightened higher authority of moderation. The base of binbush's sarcasm was rooted in existential disgust for political correctness and the illusion that is free speech and so he pressed that limit. I too was once a sarcastic, 20 year old male, who's language was once full of less than censored cursing and intimidation drama.



We do not tolerate blatant verbal abuse, derogatory statements, and cursing directed to any of our staff or members.


I have sat handcuffed, in the back of a police car, several times following otherwise peaceful protest for that exact lack of tolerance. Downpressorman, try acting as community gardener instead.



It usually starts with just a warn, followed by several u2's, still sometimes people just fail to see the error of their ways and fail to be polite when defending themselves.


Why can it not start with other members sliding a bar that represents a continuum from verbally offensive to polite, regarding their opinion of the offenders verbage. As the average member opinion drops below a threshold the offender would get an automatically generated u2u letting them know that some members find their language offensive.

Members could then set a personal threshold of just how foul languaged, trollish, flamish, etc. they were willing to deal with, in the 'member center'. If an offender drops below their personal threshold, they become automatically ignored until their behavior improves.

I guess my point is, what happens 18 months from now when DickBinBush learns the errors of his ways with regard to his sarcasm... slows it down a bit and becomes more tolerable. He had a lot to say and many good ideas, even though he lacked maturity. The current system does not seem to allow for one to grow in maturity; once you're banned, you're gone; at least as that "character".

Also... please do not feel like I am disrailing this thread entirely to "get back binbush", etc. as I only site that specific case as example of a larger phenomenon which I feel needs corrected.

I am,

Sri Oracle



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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I think that this needs to be mentioned and this is as good a place as any to put it.

We do not have a right to be here. ATS is a privately owned forum. Yes the owners give us great latitude in what we say or do here, but this is a privledge not a right. We are all guests here. Consider ATS the same as being in someone's business or home. The owner's have the right to ask you to leave at any time and they do not have to give a reason. Being asked to leave is not an infringement on your rights. You are perfectly free to start your own forum and run it however you wish.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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i also have been lucky in that this is the first board i chose to become a member of....and what a great board it is! through links resourced as "proof" to certain discussions by other members, i have seen how some other boards operate, and let me tell you, i am quite happy to be a member here (and those who know me...especially certain mods....know that i am not a kissass....i tell it like it is).

i have recently had encounters with certain members who, though they seem to be quite knowledgeable and well educated, and have quite a bit to offer to the threads, would rather use that knowledge in a condescending manner to prop themselves up as smarter than everyone else......so i am very glad that you have chosen this particular time to send this message of how to operate in ATS! i just hope they get the message!



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Once a member has been banned, should not the remaining members be made privy to the full cause for that banning... including, at least, the means to sort through the sordid details and behinds the scences discussion that occured?

Perhaps a Forum dedicated to banned members... with cited references to their offences? Or is this Guantanamo?

Ummm, no. This is not "Guantanamo" as you put it, but we believe in not airing dirty laundry of others just for entertainment value.

Let's face it. In a great many cases when someone gets to the behind the scenes communication, the staff is looking to get acknowledgement of a problem. If a member were to take responsibility and say "you're right", "I'm sorry", or even "I had a bad day" we generally give them another chance.

Most banning cases are where someone broke the T&C's and then by way of apologizing gives us the finger and says I'm not sorry I broke the rules. My story I posted before was a true one AND a personal journey. Sometimes taking responsibility is the most powerful thing you can do.

It also works both ways. Staff members also accept their actions by constant peer-review.


I'll give you that Binbush was a sarcastic, 20 year old male, who's language was full of self censored cursing and intimidation drama. His character was representitive of immaturity and a lack of self esteem; it could have been nurtured, rather than ousted, by the supposed enlightened higher authority of moderation.

Perhaps he was unwilling to be"nurtured" from cursing or intimidation and simply follow the rules, unlike you. When behavior such as breaking the T&Cs becomes constant with a steady stream of complaints from members, then something has to be done.


I have sat handcuffed, in the back of a police car, several times following otherwise peaceful protest for that exact lack of tolerance.

Lack of tolerance on cursing? Like I have said before, go to a mall, a business, or someone's home and spout curse words. See how tolerant people are.


Why can it not start with other members sliding a bar that represents a continuum from verbally offensive to polite, regarding their opinion of the offenders verbage. As the average member opinion drops below a threshold the offender would get an automatically generated u2u letting them know that some members find their language offensive.

Who is going to program this custom feature? Besides, we've had similar things in the past and guess what? It lead to an abuse of "power" with gangs of members targeting other members they simply didn't like.


I guess my point is, what happens 18 months from now when DickBinBush learns the errors of his ways with regard to his sarcasm... slows it down a bit and becomes more tolerable.

Then he might email the owners through the "contact" form and state his case for coming back. We've brought banned members back many, many times. Most times they return to their same behavior. In one case SkepticOverlord personally contacted a bunch of banned members and invited them back with a clean slate as a gesture of goodwill.

Just follow the rules was all they had to do and what thousands of great members do everyday. I believe in the period of 30 days, every one of them had imploded all on their own.


Also... please do not feel like I am disrailing this thread entirely to "get back binbush", etc. as I only site that specific case as example of a larger phenomenon which I feel needs corrected.

The phenomenon is simply be polite. People tend to think they are not responsible for their actions online in this virtual world. By being polite and accepting your actions (ie. I called someone a name and I earned a warn flag for a few days) then usually there is no problem.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
By being polite and accepting your actions (ie. I called someone a name and I earned a warn flag for a few days) then usually there is no problem.


very true. i earned a little red flag not too long ago for loosing my temper at the ignorance of someone. i came back later much calmer and cooler and apologized for the incident, and nothing more was made of it.....people make mistakes and i think the mods here understand that and take those occassional small outbursts from otherwise good members with a grain of salt.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Sri Oracle
I guess my point is, what happens 18 months from now when DickBinBush learns the errors of his ways with regard to his sarcasm... slows it down a bit and becomes more tolerable. He had a lot to say and many good ideas, even though he lacked maturity.

He's more than welcome to register a new account and start participating in a collaborative and productive way. While we outwardly frown on banned members returning with new accounts (because most of they time, they return to extract revenge for being banned), the truth is, if they return under new names and learn to fit in, we'll never know.


If what they have to say is important enough, it won't matter under which account name it's said.



The current system does not seem to allow for one to grow in maturity; once you're banned, you're gone; at least as that "character".

Would you be surprised to know that a formerly banned member returned under a new name and is now a moderator? It's true. It happens. Just because you're not aware of specific circumstances is no indication that tolerance for forgiveness doesn't happen.



I only site that specific case as example of a larger phenomenon which I feel needs corrected.

And likewise, don't assume that the publicly available posts are the only consideration toward whether or not a member is banned. Very often there are removed posts, threads, and unproductive private exchanges. This was indeed the case with the member you indicated, and he was already on thin ice before the incident you mentioned.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:51 PM
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I've had a couple questions via U2U and perhaps some refinement of the original post is in order. Afterall, "remaining polite" is not the only way to prevent being banned from ATS.

There are indeed occasions where the content of a member's posts may result in a need for us to consider action against their account.

1) False Information and/or Hoaxes
Purposely posting false information as an effort to promote a specific agenda or fool our members is the #1 way in which a member can be banned for what they post.

2) Recruit for Online or Offline Causes
While our members often discuss several causes, groups, and events that are worthy of the attention of our members, we've elected to preserve the site's agnostic stance by not allowing any recruitment of any type.

3) Agenda Promotion
From time to time, we encounter new and existing members who adopt an intense focus on a specific agenda, exclusively promoting biased information, and constantly ignoring efforts to engage in more collaborative exchanges. While this is rare, it has happened and usually inspires a great deal of "what do we do" debate among staff. In extreme cases, where members appear to be here only to take advantage of our exceptional search engine optimization to promote their agenda, we consider account termination.

While these three items specify occasions where members could be banned for the content they post, it still does boil down to issues of politeness: 1) show respect and politeness by not defrauding members, 2) show politeness by our neutral stance, and 3) be polite by engaging members in discussion about issues that are important to you instead of preaching.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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We make a big deal out of this, but all and all, the moderators are pretty lenient. It has to be pretty extreme before most moderators will flag you. There have been times when, admittedly I have said some things that I might should have been flagged for, but most of the moderators here seem to have a pretty discerning eye when it comes to figuring out what is going on.

Moderators here are pretty understanding.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 08:58 PM
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To follow up on what I just said, I try not to personally attack a poster. I have never called anyone ignorant or anything like that. I may say that what they have said is ignorant, but I have in no way ever insinuated that anyone here was ignorant. The key to not getting flagged seems to be not attacking another's personal character. Hence, I have never been flagged. ;up: That doesn't mean that I won't be, but if I ever am, I rest assured tht it is likely for a good reason.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth

[edit on 20-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Participation in ATS - BTS - PTS, on nearly any topic, is very easy -- all you need to do is be polite.

You know the world has gone bad when you have to tell members to be polite on a forum. It's no longer a basic insinct anymore, is it? Thank you for the reminder Skeptic.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 08:15 AM
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I hate to just post a message saying "I agree," but "I agree."

ATS has the highest standards of any forum I've ever been on, and it's the reason I come back, over and over. I may not agree with everything I read, heck, I might even think that a poster is downright nuts at first, but I know that, much much more often than not, we can discuss and debate with courtesy and respect, because of the basic standards of treatment we require from each other. And because of those standards, at least one of us often walks away a little wiser and a little more informed than we were before.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlordVery often there are removed posts, threads, and unproductive private exchanges. This was indeed the case with the member you indicated, and he was already on thin ice before the incident you mentioned.


I guess I'm just the type to want access to, and who actually reads, the source documents. Often when there is a banned member the incident looks like barely justified swiss cheese from a member perspective, after posts and threads were removed. It is all an illusion though isn't it.

Otherwise, I appreciate each of your commentary to my questions and I feel you have very valid points.

I am interested in the development on gang behavior on self/AI moderated websites, if you could provide links. Most of what I know on the subject has been learned at AI Depot. I have an article published there on the subject of AI moderation using multidimensional jacobian matrixes.

member,

Sri Oracle



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
We make a big deal out of this, but all and all, the moderators are pretty lenient. It has to be pretty extreme before most moderators will flag you. There have been times when, admittedly I have said some things that I might should have been flagged for, but most of the moderators here seem to have a pretty discerning eye when it comes to figuring out what is going on.

Moderators here are pretty understanding.
Well said Speaker Of Truth,I too have said some nasty things that I should have been flagged for.But I later apologized for what I said.And yes the Mods here are very understanding.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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I see my self as one of the most well rounded people on the boards here. I have never been warned for anything on the boards, of course I may be wrong on that. (Would the bosses be so kind as to see if I have been warned?) I will admit that I have strayed off topic once or twice every once in a while. Lately, I haven't been doing that and that is a good thing. As most of you know from chattin' with me in the chat room, I am good to get along with. That is because I am quiet in there most of the time. There are sometimes, however, where I can be very outspoken about something that has went on or something that was done.

Here is another key to keep from getting banned that I have found to have worked for me. That is, keep the mods and the admins on your good side. Then they will keep you on their good side. Another thing is to try and successfully keep from flaming on other members and their posts. I agree with what was said before, "Don't attack the members, politely attack the post as to which you are responding to." It's all part of the T&C's of ATS, and that is something that I have abided by since the first day of my membership.

I will hand it to the mods and the bosses though, you guys and gals do a very good job of keeping the site up and running. It is hard having to run a website that is as popular as ATS. With all the renovations that have been going on here, it's amazing that the Los Tres Amigos de ATS have had a lot to do over the past few months. The mods here are some of the best the net has to offer.
To the Mods and Staff.

It must be time consuming to go over the reasons why a person was banned. Not only that, going over what also constituted the banishement from the site. I personally, do not want to become one of the
nor will I. That is why I have lasted as long as I have on here. I have noticed that some new members were banned maybe two or three weeks after they joined. Some of them probably did not even last for one week on here.

I for one will make sure that I still do my best to please you folks here at ATS for as long as I am on here. It's been two years as of Christmas Eve and I will be here for many more years to come in the future.



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
2) Recruit for Online or Offline Causes
While our members often discuss several causes, groups, and events that are worthy of the attention of our members, we've elected to preserve the site's agnostic stance by not allowing any recruitment of any type.


Yeah...

its getting worrying when they start talking about assinating NWO members *has a flash back*



posted on Dec, 26 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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I do believe that threatening to assasinate a political leader is against the law no matter if the person is joking or not.

Might I Add.

ATS does not condone such acts of violence against other people.

[edit on 12/26/2006 by gimmefootball400]



posted on Jan, 15 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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My mom taught me one simple rule:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I have to admit, there have been times where the OP, or, another poster, has really just hacked me off to the point of an unreasonable outburst. But, I think it's so much easier to hit the "Back" button and cool off than to risk banishment for a attitude-fueled comment. You don't HAVE to comment on anything at all. I didn't comment the whole first year I was registered.
I DO think there are people out in ATS world that are clearly there to instigate and bait. Why would you support that by BEING baitable? Most of the posters here are very intellegent and come for the intellegent conversation. Why deviate from that by becoming irrational? It doesn't make you look better or smarter, it makes you look impulsive and weak.

Thank you ATS for being here to ALLOW us to trade facts, figures and conjecture.
Thank you FLAMERS for showing me what kind of person I DON'T want to be.

But, keep trying flamers, I enjoy the practice at being reasonable.


Cuhail



posted on Apr, 19 2007 @ 06:18 AM
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I think in the end, even the most angering, insulting and blatantly ignorant ATS member can be dealt with by fellow ATSers in a polite way.
There is always a way to say a thing so that it is clear you are not trying to insult or ridicule, but merely stating your opinion about someones behavior or opinion.

I too had a hard time staying nice in some discussions in the past, but in the end it always worked out because I did understand and appreciate the warnings and u2u's that staff felt forced to send me because of my posts.

I think the only moderator who I did have a hard time with getting used to was RANT (is he still around?), but even that worked out in the end.
Like my mother says, you can't get along with everyone, but you can be respectful and try to accept the (sometimes huge) differences in point of view, without being bitter about it.



posted on Nov, 24 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Do you delete profiles after a certain time if the person doesn't log in? And if so; how long a time would that be? ThXs.





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