HAARP video... omg you MUST watch this!, page 4

Just compiled all your posts in this one as once again i found little i could agree with. Did not include much source material as from my past experience that's the most likely way i think i might engage you in discussion; too much source material from 'official' sources seems to lower your enthusiasm beyond what it normally requires to just call us all ignorant and or deluded.

Originally posted by Essan
Do they really claim that? The ionosphere is part of the atmosphere. Maybe what they mean is that they can vary the upper or lower boundary of the ionosphere by up to 80 miles within the atmosphere?

That's basically what was said, yes.

(No I haven't watched the video, because I'm at work and don;t have the time. But it sounds a load of bunk to me.)

And this is how you know someone is not interested in learning anything new about what they already think they understand perfectly. And then you have the audacity to ask how so many 'experts' can be fooled so effectively?

btw if HAARP is responsible for global climate change then thousands of the world's best scientists (including all of those investigating the atmosphere and climate) had best start looking for a new job as a car park attendant or something because they are all obviously complete and utter useless idiots .....

Basically that's the truth as there is no way your going to have much luck predicting the weather in the countries that are most affected by the introduction of these EM forces into their skies. Obviously one can still predict the weather relatively effectively if you can keep track of what enemy seems to be attempting in terms of where he extracts or introduces energy into your atmosphere hence my interest in chem trails.

Originally posted by Essan
It's all well and good saying HAARP can control weather.
It's all well and good saying the US Army wants to be able to control weather.
But it's the same as saying we can and/or want to fly at 1,000 times the speed of light and become immortal.
A nice fantasy, but wholly impossible according to modern science.

Then you do not know much about 'modern science' and you should do something about that. The facts and science are in fact there but if you keep avoiding it so diligently you will be able to maintain your nice educated/indoctrinated illusions about reality and they will be able to keep on doing what they have since the late 70's ( on large scale anyways).

Odd how no-one making these bizarre claims about weather control can produce the science to demonstrate even the theoretical possiblity .....

The science is already well understood by those who operated these weapons and does it really matter if those who are the targets of it do not understand it and have to resort to lacing their skies with chemicals in their efforts to keep track of it? Just what about the introduction of energy into the atmosphere leaves you so mystified? Do you know as a so called expert already understand the basic electromagnetic nature of our atmosphere? Do you not understand that weather systems are caused by the relative distribution of energy in the atmosphere? Is the basis of your denial not routed in the fact that you do not understand where all the energy,that it would take to alter large scale weather systems, comes from? Have you investigated the basic nature of the common dipole and the true nature and source of the electricity we use every day?

And worth bearing in mind too that the ionosphere has virtually nothing to do with our weather. Indeed, the Rocky Mountains play a more significant role in the UK's weather ......

This i can agree with but do you think we should the charged parts of our atmosphere around in such dramatic ways? Do you realise what sort of tests they have done and how they have already affected the short and long term stability of our atmosphere?

www.globalpolicy.org...

I wanted to quote from that page but there is simply too much to sum up and all those who thinks it's basic human industrial activity that is causing so called global warming should read and discover it would probably not be inaccurate to assume that we have done relatively little compared to what our so called leaders have done in our name.

Originally posted by Essan
The ionosphere is not a layer of the atmosphere that can be raised or lowered as such. It extends through the thermosphere and up into the exosphere and naturally varies in density every day - reaching its highest density just after local midday and declining to almost nothing at night. It begins at a height of about 85km That's some 70km above the tropsosphere which is the part of the atmosphere in which high and low pressure systems exists and where our weather comes from.

How does changing those layers affect the relative penetration of the sun's energy to the Earth itself?

I haven't seen the video - who was it made by/for? Presumably it's a proper TV documentary?

Martin Sheen narrates and i presume it would have been on Tv in at least some countries. I enjoyed the fact that the so called HAARP experts ( they give their names and positions at the facility, so one can check) shrugged so often admitting that they either don't know or simply can't talk about it... Considering the questions i remember being asked it did not leave me with a high opinion of them as they don't seem very interested in whether we might all fall down dead ( and i don't consider that at all likely ) as result of something they did in the interest of advancing the so called sciences.

Originally posted by Essan
I hear that HAARP was also responsible for the car crash that killed Princess Diana .....

Actually that was a staged ritual sacrifice, minus the knives and the dancing obviously, so i'm not blaming HAARP for that myself.

And why'd you think the WTC collapsed so suddenly?

Because it suddenly lost structural integrity in it's foundations where no planes supposedly crashed? How does fire destroy three sky scrapers ( one was not on fire and the owner of the complex admitted they demolished it ( how they placed the charges so quickly is not mentioned or explained) in one day when it could not cause the collapse of even one in the hundred years before?

And maybe the Bermuda Triangle is actually caused by an Atlantean HAARP aray that sank 10,000 years ago but is still active?

While were speculating i have some cool ideas about the Bermuda triangle as well; at least i am relative sure i would if i actually cared to study it!

Originally posted by Essan
Amazing: the more unbelieveable and impossible something is, the more people believe it to be true.

Well you clearly don't believe in HAARP and all the other facilities of that kind being existing and being able to affect our weather systems so why object to others believing in things we can not prove one way or another? At the very least their minds are open , far too open possibly but that's another story, but what do i do with a mind who resists reality simply because it might actually impact on his day to day thinking? This is the problem with all scientist who think their science is so well understood that they can just wait for the establishment to tell them when something significant has changed.

And the more outrageous the claim, the less inclined anyone is to check out its veracity.

There is nothing outrages about HAARP, SURA or the dozens of other systems the former USSR and now Russia operates against the US to this day. Only vain arrogant so called experts can believe that what constitutes 'weather' in the USA are still due to entirely natural forces.

Still, if you want to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden ......

If one's belief system is based on 'wants' and 'needs' one can end up believing whatever you want even in direct opposition to observed reality. What i believe about HAARP and other such facilities is all contained in the scientific literature or government documents so unless we can establish that it's all a elaborate ploy to distract us from a even stranger reality we must work with what they allow us to know.

I have in the past provided you with some interesting quotes and extracts from the news media or high ranking defense officials but i never get responses to those. Is there a specific reason you do not want to engage in a technical discussion about what government and civilian officials tell us,trough official channels, about the manipulation of our global weather systems? Do you realise that the US actually succeeded in reducing the severity of hurricanes by 30-50% during their experiments in the 60's?

Livingston, 77, moved to Midland with his parents during the Depression. He earned his master's degree in cloud physics from the Naval Weapons Center and Navy Post Graduate School in California, a degree he would use in the battlefields. He seeded clouds and dramatically increased rainfall in his theater of war, creating impassably muddy roads, slowing down the Vietnamese and Korean troops, and saving lives and entire towns from occupation.

He is proudest of his award from the secretary of Navy, which says, "Lt. Livingston directly participated in project flights in a combat zone, in program planning, scientific data collection and evaluation ... his unwavering devotion to duty were major factors in the outstanding success of the project and were instrumental in the development of a unique, major combat capability for the United States."

"In the 1960s, a national priority of our government was hurricane control," Livingston said. "Silver iodide is used as a nuclei that causes raindrops to form. The original hypothesis is that if you get enough rain or cool air into a hurricane you can diminish its velocity and strength. When I left the military in the 1960s, we had the ability to do that, and reduce wind velocity in hurricanes by 25 percent and damage caused by a hurricane by 63 percent."

Livingston said his research of hurricane control was confirmed by the Stanford Research Institute. The program of controlling hurricanes, though, was mysteriously dropped by the federal government because of, as he termed it, "politics and professional jealousy." Livingston said powerful Washington lobbies control areas preventing the reinstatement of the hurricane-reduction program, and when asked why it has not yet been resinstated, Livingston cites what he calls an "industry of destruction."

Livingston, who does not believe global warming is to blame for the recent spate of deadly hurricanes along the Gulf coast, said reinstating the hurricane control program would have a greater impact for the good of the country.

www.mywesttexas.com...

If you are willing to do the research you will find that this IS happening and that for it to happen a means must, and does, exist despite your denial of it.

Stellar