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C'mon Hockey Fans....make your love of the greatest sport of them all known.

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posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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Yeah, there has been no rule change whatsoever. It is a Rule Emphasis. The rules have always existed, we were just lackluster in calling them.

It is all based on this one principle: The stick can ONLY be used to play the puck.

No if's, and's, or but's about it.

Officials are fallible, just as any human is. We are prone to make mistakes. When it comes to minor hockey in any community, harping on the officials is worse than the mistake they may or may not of made. Too often they are young children who are offering their time to provide a service. A service that is required for the game to be played. Now I am not saying you are guilty of this, but it is something that is all too common in any rink.

I've recently authored this thread, which discusses the issue.

The "Parents"

As much as the players are adapting, the officials are adapting as well.




posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by chissler
Yeah, there has been no rule change whatsoever. It is a Rule Emphasis. The rules have always existed, we were just lackluster in calling them.

It is all based on this one principle: The stick can ONLY be used to play the puck.

No if's, and's, or but's about it.

Officials are fallible, just as any human is. We are prone to make mistakes. When it comes to minor hockey in any community, harping on the officials is worse than the mistake they may or may not of made. Too often they are young children who are offering their time to provide a service. A service that is required for the game to be played. Now I am not saying you are guilty of this, but it is something that is all too common in any rink.


I don't "harp on the officials". I just play hockey and watch hockey, and I notice when bad calls are made (or not made). Young Children do not ref in the US, unless it is for a mite or squirt game...refs also are not "offering their time", they are being payed to perform the service of fairly and accurately officiating a contact sport. And as such, I think they need to be held to a higher standard than they are, and monitored for their performance.

Also, I agree the parents are terrible, but that's part of the job...one of the main reasons I decided not to get into reffing is because I didn't want to deal with the # from spectators and players. But if you see someone commit a vicious penalty and don't call it, or you see some slight accidental trip or tap of the stick and do call it because you can, then you're doing a disservice to everyone else involved. And those refs shouldn't have their jobs.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Shoktek
refs also are not "offering their time", they are being payed to perform the service of fairly and accurately officiating a contact sport. And as such, I think they need to be held to a higher standard than they are, and monitored for their performance.


Well we are considered a volunteer, in my area, but we do receive a small pay. For the amount of work and slack we take, the money does not balance. I officiate for a reason, and it is not money. I do it for the love of the game. I think what some need to realize is that we all have an opinion. The officials opinion may differ from your's, and who is to say that the official's opinion is inferior?


Originally posted by Shoktek
Also, I agree the parents are terrible, but that's part of the job.


Verbally & physically assaulted is not a part of the job. Having your life threatened, is not a part of the job.



Originally posted by Shoktek
But if you see someone commit a vicious penalty and don't call it, or you see some slight accidental trip or tap of the stick and do call it because you can, then you're doing a disservice to everyone else involved. And those refs shouldn't have their jobs.


I agree, but in all my years of reffing, I have never met an individual who was out to hurt anyone. When we see it, we call it. If we miss it, well then we missed it. What some coaches or parents see as a vicious penalty, may very well be something else. I think it is suffice to say that 99.9% of the critics out there are in a position of bias.

The ref may be the one individual in the rink, who is in a position of neutrality.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by chissler
Well we are considered a volunteer, in my area, but we do receive a small pay. For the amount of work and slack we take, the money does not balance. I officiate for a reason, and it is not money. I do it for the love of the game. I think what some need to realize is that we all have an opinion. The officials opinion may differ from your's, and who is to say that the official's opinion is inferior?


Yes, I know these things, but an opinion should not override a black and white rule in the game...and I love the game as well, but would not want to put up with the abuse you guys do and ref without decent pay!



Verbally & physically assaulted is not a part of the job. Having your life threatened, is not a part of the job.


Certainly it should not be this way, but it is impossible to avoid...it is probably why a lot of people (like me) don't want to ref to begin with. Those parents should just be thrown out of the rink, and if they have good cause and witness to support a ref not doing his/her job, they could file a formal complaint instead.




I agree, but in all my years of reffing, I have never met an individual who was out to hurt anyone. When we see it, we call it. If we miss it, well then we missed it. What some coaches or parents see as a vicious penalty, may very well be something else. I think it is suffice to say that 99.9% of the critics out there are in a position of bias.


There were many times during my youth hockey career when kids were obviously trying to inflict harm on another player. A couple severe incidents, which were not handled well by the officials as I recall. Of course this is just my own experience, and there were also many games where officiating was fine and so were all the players. But it's a bit unfortunate to be playing a game at certain rinks where we KNOW the officiating will be biased and/or poor because of past experiences, and then to have it reconfirmed to us each time we play there...



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Flyer
Well there's so much wrong with the games right now:
Loads of arenas half full
The instigator rule
Bettman trying to pussyfy the game to attract new fans but only alienating hardcore fans.
lots of diving
Abysmal reffing



This is SO right. If we wanted figure skating with nets, let figure skating add nets to their routines. The reffing is about as good as the judging in figure skating.


As to this "letting the skill players do their thing", haven't we had skill players for decades? I didn't see Messier have a problem with the old rules. Gretzky played under the old rules and he's dubbed "The Great One". Orr wasn't a skilled player? I could go on but I digress.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by chissler

Well we are considered a volunteer, in my area, but we do receive a small pay. For the amount of work and slack we take, the money does not balance. I officiate for a reason, and it is not money. I do it for the love of the game. I think what some need to realize is that we all have an opinion. The officials opinion may differ from your's, and who is to say that the official's opinion is inferior?
I understand its a hobby to you so Id never criticise refs at your level.

But the NHL refs are appalling, they're supposed to be the best in the world and they're constantly ruining games. I like the new rules but I've seen 2 minutes for checking and 2 minutes for lifting a stick. Last night there was a boarding call where the player wasn't even close to touching the boards.

Replace Campbell, Bettman and the head of officials and the game will start to get back on track.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Flyer
But the NHL refs are appalling, they're supposed to be the best in the world and they're constantly ruining games. I like the new rules but I've seen 2 minutes for checking and 2 minutes for lifting a stick. Last night there was a boarding call where the player wasn't even close to touching the boards.

Replace Campbell, Bettman and the head of officials and the game will start to get back on track.


Yup, sad isn't it when you look forward to the world championship to see some decent hockey. :shk:



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:28 PM
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If we compare the late 80's and early 90's to the late 90's, you can see a huge dip in scoring and offensive output. The league leader in goals went from 70 & 80 down to 40. We actually had years without a 50 goal scorer.

Why? Well, I openly blame the New Jersey Devils. Their creativeness and ability to exploit the game, changed the face of the NHL. The trap as we came to call it, was perfected by the Devils who went on to win championships. It was all defense with these guys. The more the trap was refined, the more clutching and grabbing we saw in the game. This decreased scoring every single year. Not to mention the ridiculous size of the goalie gear.

Tune in to ESPN Classic and watch a game from the 80's, and today. Not too bad. The skating is not half of what it is today, but the guys were permitted to move. Look at the late 90's. Game was brought to a stand still where the defense clogged the neutral zone and the goalies were constantly playing the puck. Not to mention the amount of stick and glove they could put on the offender, the game had stalled for a few years.

Agree with the refs or not, in a few years when it all balances out, we will finally have the game back to where we used to.

Crosby is going to put up Gretzky like numbers, because he is playing in a league where he has the room to do it. Look at a guy like Jordan Staal, or Evegny Malkin. Burning it up, literally. Rookies like these guys a few years ago, would be lucky to crack 20-25 goals for the year. Now they are looking at 45+ a year.

Mario & Pavel are two all-time greats that were chopped down. Mario was that damn big, they had no other choice but to lay the lumber on him like they did. He still put up crazy numbers, but unfortunately his body could only take so much.

A guy like Semenko on his side wouldn't of hurt either. Gretzky had some benefits.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:34 PM
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Google Gilbert Perruealt. The Mario before Mario.
If skill players need rule to be skill players, they aren't "skill players".



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Google Gilbert Perruealt. The Mario before Mario.
If skill players need rule to be skill players, they aren't "skill players".


Gilbert Perruealt. Should of been a Hab! Buffalo grabbed him in the first year that Montreal did not have dibs on all French born players. We managed to weasel our way into drafting Guy Lafleur though.

What I am trying to get at though is, for awhile in the 90's, skilled players were over shadowed by a brutal defense. A defense that was made up of big dumb guys on the point who could not skate, but just layed the lumber every time a guy turned the corner. Guys like Mario put up numbers like he did, because he was that good.

In the later parts of their career, Why did Mario outshine Gretzky as much as he did? Gretz was nowhere near the top of the scoring race, while Mario still dominated after his retirements. Why? Because Mario was so damn big. He could overcome the abuse and still rack up the points. Gretz was not gifted with the size and strength that Mario had. Which is exactly why his point totals decreased in the later stages of his career. He was playing in the league that no longer suited his style of play.

Why did Steve Yzerman become the defensive specialist in the later part of his career? In the league he played, he could no longer score 60 and 70 goals. He worked his ass off and became one of the best defensive forwards in the leagues. A true captain.

We complain about the state of the league today, but it is a state of transition. We are trying to get back to the days when guys like Orr, Gretzky, Lafleur, Sittler, etc., all were filling the net.

The game today is just as tough and rough as it has always been.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
If skill players need rule to be skill players, they aren't "skill players".


So then it's fine for constant slashing, hooking, and holding to be used by the less skilled players to catch up? Because this was rampant throughout the league until the new standards...



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Shoktek

Originally posted by intrepid
If skill players need rule to be skill players, they aren't "skill players".


So then it's fine for constant slashing, hooking, and holding to be used by the less skilled players to catch up? Because this was rampant throughout the league until the new standards...


Nope, disagree. I could also add that minutes in the penaty box shouldn't be for "carressing", "incedental contact" (NFL got that right) and DIVING! Wow, skilled players. Can't handle a check.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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I don't believe that "incidental contact" has been called in the league so far. The process of taking your hand off of your stick and playing it on your opponent, is and should be a penalty. If your going to throw a check, throw it with your shoulder. If your going to pin a guy along the boards, he should be in posession of the puck, and use your shoulder. All too often we saw guys taking their hands and physically pinning their opponents to the boards, long after the puck was poked free.

The game has finally opened up.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by chissler


The game has finally opened up.


WHAT GAME HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING?

It's slowed by refs that are making it up as they go. NO consistancy, and NO flow to the game. You get a PP, then I get a PP, then I get a 2 man PP, then you get................. whatever. This new NHL sucks. You guys can laud your "skill players" crap but the numbers are telling, people are starting to turn off. It's not a game anymore.

I just hope that Bettman realizes what he's doing here. I would hate to see a good game going to hell because of an "oops".



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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The reffing has not been terrible. They are doing the exact job they have been hired to do. The league has settled on a standard that they wish to have enforced, and the Ref's are merely the scape goat for all of the problems. The Ref's do not write the rule book, they merely enforce it.

As for inconsistency? I believe they have finally found consistency.

The ref's are not the problem. The players need to understand how to play the game, the way it should be played. Emphasis should be on body position rather than stick-work, clutching, and grabbing.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 05:38 AM
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I have no problem with the new rules, I have problems with the phantom penalties (and Im not talking about hooking or holding here) the refs keep on calling. They seem to call perfectly valid checks yet seem to let every headshot go.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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"Reffing" or, at least, uneven reffing in hockey is certainly a problem. I'm certain that every hockey fan can point to calls that were made almost arbitrarily. An example of this is a strange call that was made against the Detroit Red Wings during their December 20th (2006) game vs Columbus.
Nicholas Lidstrom received a minor penalty because, as the ref called it, Lidstrom was playing with a broken stick! It seems that the butt cap on Lidstroms' stick came off. This is a penalty?

Yeah, I know, rules are rules but... ?


Or how many times have you seen penalties called in a tit-for-tat fashion. First one team gets a penalty and then the opposing team gets one. I've seen this particular sort of thing happen time and time again. It can sometimes appear to be deliberate when this happens.




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