It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Did Jesus approve of christmas?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 10:41 AM
link   
or did he hint we should do anything for his birthday?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by st3ve_o]




posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 10:47 AM
link   
Christmas is "supposes" to be a celebration of his birth, and of course of the moral human values he was teaching, but in todays materialistic world it is mostly true that Jesus isn't invited to his own birthday celebrations, it is all about shopping and drinking



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 11:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by st3ve_o
or did he hint we should do anything for his birthday?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by st3ve_o]


No but neither did George Washington or Able Lincoln.
Jesus told his desciples NOT to preach to the Gentiles but we do that dont we ?

If you do only the things the bible says you can or cannot do you will find yourself living in a cave eating locust and wearing a sack.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 11:50 AM
link   
.....what Christ thought of Christmas?
Many websites dispute the actual birthdate anyway!
Many Christians will dispute the fact but we are all celebrating the Pagan festival of Yule The symbolisim is there for all to see - The greenwood tree, mistletoe, etc,etc.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:25 PM
link   
I agree that if Christmas was ever a literal Christian holiday, it no longer is. Today it is hardly anything more than a corporate holiday and benefits businesses more than it does the Christian ideology.

As for December 25th actually being a pagan holiday, that is also true. The reason for that is arguable. Jesus' actual birthday was, from what I understand, in March or April. Supposedly Christmas was made on December 25th to make it an easier transition for the pagans to convert to the early Christian Church. And that could go two ways: one, it could be a decent argument as to the falacy or atleast flaw-ful-ness of modern Christian teachings. But it could also just be that the early Christian Church really just wanted to spread the "truth" they new and wanted to make it easy to convert. I personally think it's the former. As for the Christmas tree and all the other pagan symbolism of Christmas...well, let's just say there does seem to be a ridiculous amount of it.

Some would even argue that Christmas goes against the teachings of the Bible. In Jeremiah Chapter 10 it talks about the sin of...what sounds a lot like Christmas trees:


10:2. Thus saith the Lord: Learn not according to the ways of the Gentiles: and be not afraid of the signs of heaven, which the heathens fear:

10:3. For the laws of the people are vain: for the works of the hand of the workman hath cut a tree out of the forest with an axe.

10:4. He hath decked it with silver and gold: he hath put it together with nails and hammers, that it may not fall asunder.


But that chapter can be interpretted a number of different ways, not unlike every other chapter in every other book in the Bible. I believe there's also a scripture that shuns pagans for celebrating the "winter solstice", but I can't seem to find it.

All in all, I don't believe in Jesus as the Son of God or Saviour anyway, but even if I did, I would still not celebrate Christmas, atleast not the way mainstream Christians do these days. And no, I don't think there's any evidence that leads us to believe Christmas was condoned or encouraged by Jesus. That would be prideful anyway, I think. Christmas is a worldly holiday, in my humble opinion. I personally see it as a hypocritical celebration, but I won't deny that the family and loving aspect of it, and the festiveness of it all can be quite enjoyable. It's sad to see it be corrupted more and more every year by corporations, and it's sad that it's a Christian holiday.
I wouldn't mind celebrating it if it didn't go against my own personal beliefs.

[edit on 19/12/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:31 PM
link   
Well I am a heathen but I would think Jesus loved a good party.

The man turned water into wine...that's not something you do just once.

I would think that back in his day that as rolled jesus so rolled the party.

Until they got to rome of course.

Spiderj



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:41 PM
link   
I always find it noteworthy that the first ones to remind us that it's Christmas, Easter, Mother/Father's day, Valentine's Day is the sales flyers.

If it wasn't for those who exploit holidays for sales, those holidays would be far less in your face.

Here it is, Christmas coming AGAIN
and I feel like if I don't run out and buy things for people, I will feel like a heel on Christmas day. I can't even afford to get stuff for myself!

No, we're not brainwashed


I'd just rather not celebrate christmas at all.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by golddragnet but in todays materialistic world it is mostly true that Jesus isn't invited to his own birthday celebrations, it is all about shopping and drinking


That is a pretty broad generalization and I must confess that I sort of enjoy the shopping and drinking and general party atmosphere that the Holidays bring.

However with the growing evangalical movement; there are plenty of people that observe Christmas in a very biblical manner and realize the reason for the season. I just don't happen to be one of them.

Still.... Merry Christmas.........and may I have another glass of eggnog please?



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 01:44 PM
link   
Did Jesus approve of Christmas?
I don't think he does anymore. Christmas nowadays is nothing more than a materialistic, commercial, secular, shopping orgy. The majority of the public that celebrates it completely tune Jesus out of their lives. And yet the day was meant to be an occasion to celebrate his birth, which it isn't anymore.
I think now it's on par with Moses coming down from the mountain and seeing his people worshipping golden calves, feasting and getting drunk.
Personally, I think he's very sad to see the spectacle we have made his birthday celebration..........nobody shows respect anymore. It went out the door years ago.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 01:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by whaaa
That is a pretty broad generalization..........


Call it a generalization, but it's true.


Originally posted by whaaa....... there are plenty of people that observe Christmas in a very biblical manner and realize the reason for the season.


These people are in the minority. There use to be a time in this country, not long ago, when it was the other way around (if you're old enough, you'll remember this).
To the majority of the current Christmas celebrants, Christmas has totally lost it's true meaning. There's a reason Christ is in the name.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 01:58 PM
link   
For some reason, I gave you a WATS. The Moses analogy is spot on.
The whole Christmas debacle is wrong, it celebrates consumption and consumerism, all based on 'things' or 'idols'

Same thing with Easter, to most kids it means easter bunnies and chocolate eggs, and for a lot of kids, presents too.

God is profitable!



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 01:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by rocknroll
And yet the day was meant to be an occasion to celebrate his birth, which it isn't anymore.


From what I understand, Christmas was never really meant to be the celebration of the Son of God. I know the fact that this source's URL is "bibleufo" doesn't lend it much credibility, but it's the best explanation I could find:


Christmas is not only a big advertising opportunity today;
it was actually created as an advertising campaign.

There is no biblical edict to celebrate the birth of Jesus and certainly it is clear that he was not born at the time of the winter solstice. The celebration of the winter solstice has been a part of most ancient cultures throughout history. The celebration of this event is actually an advertising campaign used by early church leaders to lure non-Christians into the church.

The Mesopotamian culture thousands of years before the birth of Jesus had winter solstice that included many of the trappings of Christmas. These included the 12 days of Christmas, the bright fires, the Yule log, the giving of gifts, carnivals, parades with floats, carolers, the holiday feasts, all dedicated to the god Marduk.

The Persians and the Babylonians celebrated a similar festival called the Sacaea. Part of that celebration included the exchanging of places, the slaves would become the masters and the masters were to obey.

Scandinavian cultures celebrated the winter solstice including a festival called Yuletide including a feast, which would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. They also decorated trees with fruit.

In Scandinavia during the winter months the sun would disappear for many days. After thirty-five days scouts would be sent to the mountaintops to look for the return of the sun. When the first light was seen the scouts would return with the good news. A great festival would be held, called the Yuletide, and a special feast would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. Great bonfires would also be lit to celebrate the return of the sun. In some areas people would tie apples to branches of trees to remind themselves that spring and summer would return.

The most direct relation these winter solstice festivals have to what is now called Christmas is the Roman celebration called Saturnalia, which took place on December 25th. The Roman festival marking the "birthday of the unconquered sun, Natalis Solis Invicti"; celebrated the winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen. The problem for the early church leaders is that Saturnalia was in direct competition with the church right on their home turf, Rome.

Many campaigns were launched to outlaw and eradicate this pagan practice but this proved to be a difficult task. The lure of such interesting celebrations to Christians alarmed the church to such a degree that they took a step that forever changed the face of Christian practice. They decided that by integrating the previously forbidden customs into a new celebration honoring the Christian Son of God would lure the pagans into the Christian fold.

In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome declared for the first time that the birth of the Christ Child would be celebrated and the Bishop of Rome, Julius I, ordered the date of December 25th as the official day in 350 AD. Saint Boniface substituted a fir tree for the pagan oak in the eighth century as a symbol of faith. Martin Luther fostered the Christmas tree cult by using a candlelit tree as a symbol of Christ's heavenly home

This is one of the many examples of the church adopting ancient traditions to worship God, an example of the practice Jesus specifically condemned:

Mark 7: 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


www.bibleufo.com...



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:19 PM
link   
Even though I'm Pagan, I still enjoy Christmas. The origin of Pagan Yule, was that in Northern Europe, winter was very cold, dark, damp and dreary. So they had 12 days of feasting and merriment to lift their spirits, otherwise they would be very depressed. And of course, it was the Winter Solstice, too.

Later on, there is the Mithras myth, which in part became one of the foundations of the Christmas story. I know that many people think Christmas has become too commericial, and it probably is. But I decided many years ago to celebrate Christmas the way i thought was right. Every Christmas Eve, we would read the story of Jesus from the Bible. While I do not think he is the Son of God, I believe Jesus was a very wise prophet, who gave to the world some very simple rules for getting along with everyone and for individuals to live by. So, his story is important to me.

We have a tree, because that's our Pagan custom, but I put my antique nativity scene out, too, to honor Jesus and Mithras and because out of the winter, light is born. We exchange presents, nothing huge and expensive, but some things that are hand made and are really what the person wants or needs. I don't go to large malls to shop. I have lived in small towns for a long time, so I shop locally to support the independent shopkeepers. Another thing we do is shop at Salivation Army, or some such to buy used books, useful kitchen gadgets, etc. as gifts, so it's recycled. I do whatever I can to stay away from the rampant commercialism and in short we do Christmas the way WE think it should be done, not what any retail store would have us do. To us, it's a very sacred time and should have nothing to do with Target, Wal-Mart and all that. It's about sincerity, giving, forgiveness and generosity as well as a time for reflecting about what I can do to help my fellow humans.


df1

posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by whaaa
However with the growing evangalical movement; there are plenty of people that observe Christmas in a very biblical manner and realize the reason for the season.

The bible doesn't say a word about how christmas should be celebrated, so how does one observe christmas in a biblical manner? At any rate I suspect that jesus did not consider his teachings to only be seasonal.



Still.... Merry Christmas.........and may I have another glass of eggnog please?

And a merry christmas, happy holiday or whatever works to everyone...

Are the 3 amigos a representation of the trinity?



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 02:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by an3rkistFrom what I understand, Christmas was never really meant to be the celebration of the Son of God.


Well, that depends on what you mean.
It's obvious that at some point the Church would pick a day to celebrate the birth of Christ. Nobody knew his exact date of birth......and when and why it was picked is totally irrelevant at this point in time (I know the history so I don't need a lesson). But in the year 2006, and since I was born, it is the day to celebrate and acknowledge His birth. The fact remains that date was eventually picked by the Church to mark the celebration of His birth. And that date is still being used as I type. So, if you believe in Jesus, this would be the day to celebrate his birth.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 03:03 PM
link   
an3rkist,

There are some things I disagree with you on, especially about interpretation of scripture. However, you and I do have our common ground elsewhere so I'm just going to leave it alone. That's not really why I'm posting anyway.

The point I would like to make as a Christian is that there are still plenty of us that see Christmas for its intended purpose. As a sinner I can tell you that I sometimes get distracted and have to remind myself of the reason for this celebration. I am however blessed with a close Christian family that keeps me grounded in my Faith and the objective of the season.

I think a good practice to get into (not just for Christmas) is to give without the expectation of receiving something in return. Even something as simple as expecting a thank you means that you are looking for reward or recognition.

Give just for the sake of giving....



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 03:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by jbondo
There are some things I disagree with you on, especially about interpretation of scripture.


Well I try not to interpret scripture myself. I do not believe the scriptures to be the Word of God, or even a verifiable historical document. When I quote scriptures, I do so in hopes that people will make their own interpretations. I put in my two cents usually, but I don't claim to be a biblical scholar on any level. In my own personal experience with the Bible, most things in it tend to be relative to a person's already-established beliefs. The scriptures seem to support all different kinds of beliefs and interpretations. Some Christians use the Bible to support Christmas, while there are other Christians who use the Bible against Christmas.


The point I would like to make as a Christian is that there are still plenty of us that see Christmas for its intended purpose. As a sinner I can tell you that I sometimes get distracted and have to remind myself of the reason for this celebration.


I respect the advertised reasons for Christmas, "goodwill towards men" and all that, and I have great respect for people who celebrate Christmas based on that foundation. The only issue I have about that is that I don't think one day should be set aside for that kind of thing. If we could have the so-called "Christmas Spirit" year-round, instead of just on Christmas day, then things would be a lot better. (Assuming we could have the Christmas spirit without relating it to Christ for those of us non-Christians.)


I think a good practice to get into (not just for Christmas) is to give without the expectation of receiving something in return. Even something as simple as expecting a thank you means that you are looking for reward or recognition.

Give just for the sake of giving....


Sounds like you feel the same way about it being year-round.


Although it's off-topic, I would like to say that I believe it is impossible to have a truly self-less act. Even if you don't expect a thank you, you do something good because it makes you feel good. If it didn't make you feel good to give, would you still do it? (But that doesn't make giving a bad thing at all, giving is still good!)

Anyway, I think Jesus would be against us celebrating his birthday. If he wanted us to do that, wouldn't that be kind of prideful on his part?

[edit on 19/12/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 07:55 PM
link   
They didn't have Christmas back when Jesus was around, he was into last suppers. (And kickin wedding parties.) I love that - My time has not yet come, but he did it for his mom.

One can see though how it was easily transferred onto the pagan celebration of solstice. Master of Life and all that hope of green...


What's with those bunnies pooping out chocolate eggs for easter? I know chocolate releases endorphins but it's not exactly ascension...

Color me confused.


[edit on 19-12-2006 by clearwater]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 09:03 PM
link   
an3rkist, my point was that the Bible is not up for interpretation by just anyone. If that were the case then people could just twist scripture any way they wanted. Hence justifying attitudes and activities that are not of God.

You have a right to your opinion and as I said, I didn't respond so that we would get into a battle. However, completely selfless acts are not as unlikely as you theorize them to be. In fact, I do all sorts of nice things for people all the time and I don't give it a thought. I don't wait for thank you’s or ponder the moment or even get a warm fuzzy feeling. I not only carry out acts of kindness because it's the Christian way but because it's just the right thing to do.

Also, as a Christian I try to celebrate the Lord every day. It is however the Christmas season when non Christians are most willfully involved or used to be.

As for whether Jesus would want us to celebrate His birthday or not I think anything that brings people closer to the Kingdom and causes people to come together not only as families but as a body IMO is a good thing and again IMO I think He believes the same. With the Holy Spirit dwelling inside me I can say that I've never been directed not to celebrate Christmas. In fact my experience is quite the opposite. After all it is the Christian Faith so I'm sure that if we were going against the wishes of the Lord, He would let us know.

That's what I believe as a Christian.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 01:39 AM
link   
Edit



[edit on 20-12-2006 by Tamahu]




top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join