Iran's done it now...

I predict that the rhetoric against Iran will reach ever greater heights in the coming weeks and months, because they've finally announced their response to increased threats of sanctions.

They're shifting their foreign transactions - including oil - from dollars to Euros.

Iran is to shift its foreign currency reserves from dollars to euros and use the euro for oil deals in response to US-led pressure on its economy.

In a widely expected move, Tehran said it would use the euro for all future commercial transactions overseas.

BBC news

The article goes on to hedge its bets somewhat, saying that payments for oil may be accepted in dollars, and they quote an economist who says that it won't make much difference to the dollar because they've been threatening to do it for months.

I suspect the damage done to the dollar will go deeper than this, and that retaliatory measures against Iran - disguised as concern (again!) for a non-existent nuclear weapons programme - are not far away.

isn't that the reason the US invaded Iraq?

Are the US going to stand by and watch these edit people ruin their economy?

apologies for the degrading language. It is to be read in a satrical/comedic slant.

Admin edit: I realize you made the comment to be satirical/ humorous however it was a bit over the line.



[edit on 12-19-2006 by William One Sac]

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
isn't that the reason the US invaded Iraq?

Are the US going to stand by and watch these filthy rag'eads ruin their economy?

apologies for the degrading language. It is to be read in a satrical/comedic slant.

yeah, your just hillarous...

Iran is only a recent addition to the 'dump the dollar' list. There will be more. And who can blame them? The dollar has become volatile of late (relative to the euro) and given the obscene borrowing the US is doing to finance the wars it will only get worse. They all just better hope nothing bad happens in Europe to destabilize the euro.

If I was an american id be really scared about what my idiotic leader is going to do here..
jesus... If there's ONE man on this planet Id never want in charge of a lemonade stand, let a lone a world superpower.. its him...
sigh... I cant believe so many of you still follow the fool..


Iran has dumped the dollar, they always said it was going to happen...

hey lookie we've got increased military build up in the area TOOOO
and the iraqi war is going from unbelievable horendous, to out right unebeliveable...

do the happy dance




thankgod we have the war on terror to justify saving the american economy from nations willing to go away from the dollar eh?

[edit on 19-12-2006 by Agit8dChop]

With the lack of stability of the American dollar this is a good move for Iran and probably a lot of other countries if they were to do the same. The dollar has never recovered since 2001 and at the moment at least it just keeps getting worse, for Americans that is, i'm personally loving it 2 dollars to the pound

btw this is nothing new they have been moving away from the dollar since 2003

Originally posted by jtma508
They all just better hope nothing bad happens in Europe to destabilize the euro.

Well; Europe is well on its way toward Islamification. Once Islam takes over, the Euro will be virtually worthless!! BTW: Not all countries in Europe are using the Euro.

can anyone tell me why the dollar didn't react to this news? Was it already factored in or are traders just seeing this as rhetoric from Iran and don't see them actually doing it or they just don't care??

I can't understand why the US markets are continuing to ignore all the news that could potentially hurt the dollar.

Worldwatcher, I beleive it's because this has been threatened/anticipated for a long time and speculators and money markets have been moving/converting cash assets all along.

I guess so, I mean I knew that Iran was threatening to dump the dollar for a while now, so the bankers probably knew that too and have already taken acct for it, but still it seems odd that "joe public trader" isn't reacting to this bit of info

I hate to say it but the current dollar strength feels very fake to me and I'm looking for a dramatic decline in the dollar before the year is over, however being that the markets seems so obviously fake right now, I'm unsure as to how long they can continue this bull run without any consequences. It's possible we see the the other majors make a run up over the holiday weekend like they did over thanksgiving, but all my fundamentals and technicals are failing me as I keep my foot wet in the forex.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Well; Europe is well on its way toward Islamification.

That's perhaps the stupidest statement I've seen on here this week. Not only is this a made up word (Islamification) it has nothing to do with the topic.

Why has the dollar not reacted? You're confusing cause and effect WW.

This is the effect of the dollar's recent fall and long-term downtrend (the cause) not the other way around. Many Americans are having trouble thinking globally or believing that the dollar is being slapped around rather than leading any trends. The reserve currency is in trouble and has been for a while.

Remember this?
Russia Approves Ban on Dollar, Euro.
.

thanks gools

but while it could be said that Iran and China dumping dollars is the effect of a weak dollar and not the cause, I would think that that particular "effect" would start a new "cause" and a further fall for the dollar, wouldn't it? but obviously not since it hasn't happened

Yep. It's a vicious cycle and hard to break. The last time, Volker (sp?) boosted interest rates into double digits to save the dollar (after the second oil shock of the 70's).

Something I've learned over tha last couple of years is that things happen in the economy a lot slower than I first thought when I posted my great depression and petrodollar warfare threads.

If you recall China has been telegraphing it's intent to "diversify" its forex reserves since January. It's like slow moving chess pieces on a giant board or rather a giant elastic being slowly streched to it's maximum tolerance. Nobody knows how much pressure it can take until it snaps.
.

edit: fixed a link

[edit on 12/19/2006 by Gools]

well if the euro is being prepped to take the place of the dollar is the EU ready to project it's 'military might' together united as a union who can't even agree to a constitution to not only protects its interests and investments but it's allies interests such as the US does right now in a very formidable fashion? to quell or deter foreign aggression that could possibly disrupt the flow of oil and consumer goods along with other trade possibly hatling the economy? what about islamic radicalism?? if its not checked now it will only continue to grow and has already taken root in europe, investors know and contemplate all of this and then look at the US who has seen larger debts as a stable union united as americans and a single country.

the dollar has proven it's stability and basically rebuilt europe and japan to what it is today, all of a sudden the worlds long tgime leader in investment and stability is going to be replaced by a union currency that is obviously at odds with each other? many are unhappy within the EU because of the political process, you have commissioners who are put in power by the parliament ( not very democratic ) proposing legislation and the only body able to do so which may not be the interests of some countries in the union which is flawwed.

I doubt this is something you will see an overnight reaction to. I'm sure that as time goes by and more and more transactions are done with Euro and not US $ , it will just keep driving the value down.

Why should this be a surprise if you are going to mess with someone should they support you AND allow you to screw them over at the same time? I don't think so. I remember when the Euro first came out it was 1.00US for every .75 euro. I guess it will go the way of the British pound and also kick our butt. Even the canadian dollar doesn't have much of a spread anymore.


Pie

Originally posted by ape
well if the euro is being prepped to take the place of the dollar is the EU ready to project it's 'military might' together united as a union who can't even agree to a constitution to not only protects its interests and investments but it's allies interests such as the US does right now in a very formidable fashion?

First, the US does not protect its allies' interests. The US protects its own self-interest and then dresses it up in altruistic clothing. And please don't go down the "you'd be speaking German if it weren't for us" route - Averell Harriman's bank made huge amounts of money (for Dubya's grandaddy Prescott Bush, notably, among others) from the economic reorganisation of Germany performed by the Nazi party, and IBM profited from selling technology that would be used in the Holocaust. Part of the way the US dug itself out of the Depression was to invest in Nazi Germany in the first place. Who was Time Magazine's Man of the Year for 1933? Adolf Hitler.

The US, btw, made a profit off the first Gulf War, from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

And the Euro is the free choice of the countries concerned, unlike the dollar, which was forced down the throats of OPEC by the US after it left the gold standard (because it had printed way too much money and was, effectively, bankrupt even then). Military might is not the solution to everything.

to quell or deter foreign aggression that could possibly disrupt the flow of oil

The sheer denial of reality in that statement is mind-blowing. The US has invaded two countries in the past five years, and is getting set to take action against another, to control oil supplies. And the net effect, thus far, has been to send oil prices rocketing (whoops! but such a boon for the oil companies that back Bush and his criminal cronies) and to reduce the supply of oil coming out of Iraq to a trickle.

The US doesn't deter aggression: it embodies it.

what about islamic radicalism??

What about it? It's continually overstated as a problem by the US media, which is funny, because it's a problem that's actually been inflamed by US actions. Iran, for example, was a modernising secular democracy until the US overthrew President Mossadegh in the fifties because he wanted to nationalise their oil industry. The US installed the Shah, and trained a secret police so vicious and repressive they made the KGB look like a bunch of Girl Guides. Result? A rise in militant Islamic fundamentalism and the rule of Khomeini. Did you know that Iranians referred to the US Embassy as "the nest of spies"? I know that the US embassy hostage taking is routinely portrayed in the US media as just ragheads getting angry with the much misunderstood US, but they had their reasons to hate your government. They knew who was behind the installation of the shah, and they knew who equipped SAVAK and provided their training in torture techniques. Oh, torture and the US were bedfellows long before Abu Ghraib: it's part of the mix of tactics taught in counterinsurgency classes at the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia, and has been since at least the sixties.

There is so much nonsense about Islamic fundamentalism on these boards. The Islamic population of the UK is tiny, slightly over one percent of the total. Most of those people are moderates, although some are being radicalised because we've been dragged into that Godawful War of Terror. The few who are really upset get all the media coverage. Funny that.

the dollar has proven it's stability and basically rebuilt europe and japan to what it is today,

Er... don't know about Japan, but the UK has only just finished paying off the Marshall plan loans.

The rest of the world is waking up to the fact that the dollar is way overvalued, and has been for around forty years (ever heard of Bretton Woods?). They're looking for a more stable currency, and the Euro is seen as the best bet. Of course there are flaws there, but it's still seen, by people who think about this stuff for a living, as a better bet than the dollar.

well if the euro is being prepped to take the place of the dollar is the EU ready to project it's 'military might' together united as a union who can't even agree to a constitution to not only protects its interests and investments but it's allies interests such as the US does right now in a very formidable fashion?

Judging by Iraq, "military might" does not count for much anymore.

Instead of wasting their treasury on weapons that are, for the most part, useless in the modern world, the Europeans are being smart players and concentrating on their economic influence.

The testosterone-addled leadership of the US and it's camp followers do not understand the concept of "soft power", something US leadership during the Cold War understood very well.

This is why in a scant few years under the Bush administration, the US has gone from the most influential, powerful, and widely admired country on the planet to a laughingstock, a widely despised rouge nation whose leaders clearly have no idea what they're doing.

America's power (our actual ability to shape and influence world events) is rapidly waning. This despite our massive military advantages and huge economy. We've gone from a respected leader to an overmuscled schoolyard bully.

Originally posted by rich23
First, the US does not protect its allies' interests. The US protects its own self-interest and then dresses it up in altruistic clothing. And please don't go down the "you'd be speaking German if it weren't for us" route - Averell Harriman's bank made huge amounts of money (for Dubya's grandaddy Prescott Bush, notably, among others) from the economic reorganisation of Germany performed by the Nazi party, and IBM profited from selling technology that would be used in the Holocaust. Part of the way the US dug itself out of the Depression was to invest in Nazi Germany in the first place. Who was Time Magazine's Man of the Year for 1933? Adolf Hitler.

The US, btw, made a profit off the first Gulf War, from Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

And the Euro is the free choice of the countries concerned, unlike the dollar, which was forced down the throats of OPEC by the US after it left the gold standard (because it had printed way too much money and was, effectively, bankrupt even then). Military might is not the solution to everything.

American politicians and business leaders of today, as well as those of earlier generations, are no more, or less, manipulative, greed or power driven, charitable, altruistic, good, or evil, than any of their European counterparts. The US simply has the biggest stick, and the biggest piece of the pie, so the effects of it's policies are much more acute, therfore much more closely scrutinized.

You Eurpoeans must really get over yourselves. You are no better than anyone else. We're all the same on the inside, some of us just have more stuff.



[edit on 12/20/2006 by darkbluesky]

Well said xmotex. This hits the nail squarely on the head. The damage done to this country over the last several years is going to be felt for decades. WTF were people thinking? Was it blind stupidity or something else altogether?

The rest of the world is waking up to the fact that the dollar is way overvalued, and has been for around forty years (ever heard of Bretton Woods?). They're looking for a more stable currency, and the Euro is seen as the best bet. Of course there are flaws there, but it's still seen, by people who think about this stuff for a living, as a better bet than the dollar.

Is it a coincidence that the FED quits publishing M3 data a few months back and the dollar starts its free fall?

The fact is there has not been a fiat currency in the history of the world that has ever lasted. The dollar night be the next to collapse but so will all the other fiat currencies around the world.