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Freemasonry and Christianity

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posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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Hello Friends,


I would humbly offer that it may be possible that all mature religious philosophies are Christian or Pseudo-Christian [for lack of a better word] by virtue of:

1) Belief in a Supreme Power or Universal Authority
2) Belief in the Brotherhood of Mankind
3) Belief in a phenomenon known as salvation, which itself is dependent on the preceding two.

Sectarianism is dead or soon will be. I use the word Christian in describing myself because I personally identify with the avatar of Christ. I view him as a model citizen and the ideal leader. I also see these qualities in Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster and many others. So theoretically, at the very least, Christ is little more than a spiritual phenomenon that everyone can experience if they so choose.


Humbly offered




posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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I just think that if a bible is represented in the lodge it would be okay to talk about the redemtion. How does the lodge feel about christ's redemtion?

[edit on 22-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I just think that if a bible is represented in the lodge it would be okay to talk about the redemtion. How does the lodge feel about christ's redemtion?

The Bible is more than represented, it is present. It is known masonically as the Volume of the Sacred Law and acts as a reminder that everything we do is in the presence of God, and that we will be called to account for our actions before his throne. However, the lodge itself has no opinion about Christ's redemption as religious matters are outside of its scope. Its members, however, may have strong opinions on the subject.



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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When you say Volume of Sacred Law. Does that mean the koran is just an extension of the bible? Or just a different version of the bible? As with all the representations of religion in the lodge?



posted on Dec, 22 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
When you say Volume of Sacred Law. Does that mean the koran is just an extension of the bible? Or just a different version of the bible? As with all the representations of religion in the lodge?

No, its simply a name. Doesn't mean anything more than that.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 02:38 AM
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Freemasonry apparently teaches "tolerance" among it's members. The masons here state that there is no conflict with Freemasonry and Christianity, and that members choose the religion they desire to belong to. However, Jesus claimed he is "The Way, The Truth, and The Life", and that "No one comes to the Father, but through ME" (I'm not the kind of person that can quote by chapter and verse).

Freemasons have the "Volume of Sacred Law" that is placed on the altar in the center of the lodge. However this can be substituted with any other religious book, such as the Koran, or Torah, whatever. If a Christian believes that Jesus is his Lord and Saviour, and is the only truth, and Christianity is the only true religion, how can he put other religions on the same level.

There can only be one truth, the Koran and the Bible can not both be true at the same time. The Koran denies Christ's divinity for example, the bible glorifies Christs divinity. Yet the Koran or Bible, or whatever religious book can be placed on the Masonic Altar. A Freemason worships whatever God he desires.

There can only be One Supreme Being, and for example, Buddhism and Christianity do not have the same beliefs in what this Supreme Being is. Yet a Buddhist, I believe, is welcome in the lodge, along side the Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or what not.

The Bible can't be placed on the same level as the Koran, because the Bible holds the truth, the Koran doesn't contain the full truth.

Having all these men of different faiths meet under one roof, yet follow an order that is somewhat religious is quite an accomplishment. (Religion is not discussed in an open lodge)

Hmm...I think I'll try to get to the point. Christianity is the true religion, Christ is the Way, the Truth and The Life, and there is no other way to the Father besides Jesus. Jesus reveals this to us in the bible. How then can Freemasons of all walks of religion gather under what is called "The Great Architect of the Universe", when there can only be one truth, and Jesus stated that he is the One Truth. How can you place other religions, and other Gods on the same level as Jesus?

Jesus can not be compared with Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna etc.. The various followers of these key religious leaders have conflicting beliefs and don't believe in the same God.

Freemasonry can not be compatible with Christianity on the grounds that by equating all other faiths, and all other "Gods" as equally being referred to under the title "The Great Architect of the Universe"..because all religions do not refer to the same Supreme Being. There can only be One, and only the Christian Trinity is the true God.

These things I state as Christianity being the true religion, and the trinity being the True God are things a Christian would believe if he is truly a Christian.

Freemasonry is not compatible with Christianity, because it subverts the fact that Jesus is the ONLY saviour, the ONLY truth, the ONLY way.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Freemasonry apparently teaches "tolerance" among it's members. [snip]

These things I state as Christianity being the true religion, and the trinity being the True God are things a Christian would believe if he is truly a Christian.

Freemasonry is not compatible with Christianity, because it subverts the fact that Jesus is the ONLY saviour, the ONLY truth, the ONLY way.


CC,

I'm very disappointed in your post because you've been on this list a long time and have read a LOT of posts on this very subject.

The things you state about Christianity I believe as well. I have a Masonic Brother who is Jewish and he doesn't believe the way I do. I still like him and accept him as my Brother. Should I not do this? Should I avoid him because his personal beliefs run contrary to my own?

Freemasonry does NOT

"equate..all other faiths and all other gods"

"subvert the fact that Jesus is saviour...etc"

It does not do these things because that's not the place of a FRATERNITY, which is what Freemasonry is.

It requires a member to believe in a Supreme Being and in an afterlife. What the individual believes ABOUT the Supreme Being is left outside the door of the Lodge and inside the Lodge Masons meet on the level...as men and Brothers. Brothers who were created by God.

Remember that "Love one another" thing in the Bible? It didn't say "Love only those who are professing Christians"

Freemasonry is not about salvation or worship. That's the job of the Church. Freemasonry is about Friendship, Morality and Brotherly Love.

It's a Fraternity. Period.


[edit on 23-12-2006 by Appak]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Freemasonry apparently teaches "tolerance" among it's members. The masons here state that there is no conflict with Freemasonry and Christianity, and that members choose the religion they desire to belong to.


It doesn't "apparently" teach it; it's a central tenet. But it seems that intolerance is your preferred route. Ironic given the proximity to Christmas. Taking your argument to its logical end, we must remove all these non-Christians from our midst as they don't believe as we do. You're perhaps aware that that route has achieved nothing the multiple times it's been attempted in the past?

Why is it that certain professed followers of the Prince of Peace have such an absolutely narrow-minded view on the world. Grow up! There are other religions in this world than Christianity and it doesn't benefit anybody to advance the existence of Hell to this world instead of the next.


Originally posted by chief_counsellor"Freemasons have the "Volume of Sacred Law" that is placed on the altar in the center of the lodge. However this can be substituted with any other religious book, such as the Koran, or Torah, whatever. If a Christian believes that Jesus is his Lord and Saviour, and is the only truth, and Christianity is the only true religion, how can he put other religions on the same level."


Because he is sure in his faith and the presence of another who believes differently isn't going to alter or shake that faith. The same way a non-Christian can.


Originally posted by chief_counsellorA Freemason worships whatever God he desires.


A Freemason doesn't enforce his belief structure on others.


Originally posted by chief_counsellorThe Bible can't be placed on the same level as the Koran, because the Bible holds the truth, the Koran doesn't contain the full truth.


In your opinion. Not the opinion of all (or even the majority) on the planet. You'd prefer religious war about the 'true' path to righteousness over agreement between men about shared values? Spare us your 'values'.


Originally posted by chief_counsellorHaving all these men of different faiths meet under one roof, yet follow an order that is somewhat religious is quite an accomplishment. (Religion is not discussed in an open lodge)


It's a meeting of good men striving to become better. You'd rather deny that to a Muslim or a Sikh or a Buddhist because of your absolutist views? Myopic in the extreme.


Originally posted by chief_counsellorHmm...I think I'll try to get to the point.


That would make for a pleasant change.


Originally posted by chief_counsellorFreemasonry is not compatible with Christianity, because it subverts the fact that Jesus is the ONLY saviour, the ONLY truth, the ONLY way.


It's a belief, like all things religious. We don't get our true answer until we shuffle off the mortal coil and receive our reward or condemnation. There are plenty of venues for arguing religion. Masonry just chooses not to be another one.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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So let me get this straight. I should just drop everything I believe in. Just to get along. Go out and join the lodge. Just to get along with a muslim or someone else of a different religion? Risk offending my god. Well my values are absolute as my faith in what the bible says.

Why is it that certain professed followers of the Prince of Peace have such an absolutely narrow-minded view on the world. Grow up!

That was nice banter their.

Their may be other religions beside christianity but I'am not interested in those. They mean nothing to me or my faith.

It's a group of men coming together to become better men. It's men who are searching for light I thought. Do people actually think that after they have been born again they need light of masonry to get better?

God is loving, but God is also a jealous God (Nahum 1:2). He will not give His glory to another, or his praised to graven images in Isa 42:8. See also Isa 45:5, 24. Masons seem to forget that Elijah showed that God did not tolerate mixing Baal worship with the worship of the true God.

It may not be the majority of values on this planet. But I think I will stick with the bible. After all the bible is just furniture of the lodge anyway it seems.

On one hand they hold the Muslim Quran and the Hindu Rig-Veda as having equal standing with the Bible. On the other hand, they see masonry as containing the good of other religions, and for some masons superseding the "superstitions" of Christianity and other religions.

presents itself as God's word. It is not just "suggestions for life", but we must take its authority in our lives as seriously as our Lord & Biblical writers meant. Jn 10:35; Mt 4:1-11; 5:18; Jn 14:23-24; 2 Pet 1:19-21,25; 3:16; Rom 3:1-2; 2 Tim 3:15-16; Ps 12:6-7; Am 8:11-12; Isa 66:5. Do not add to or go beyond God's word (Prov 30:5-6; 1 Cor 4:6-7; Dt 4:2; Rev 22:18; Ecc 12:12)

There are two problems here: Jesus blood is just an option, and all go to Heaven. Masonry teaches that purity of life and conduct is involved to be admitted to the "Celestial Lodge" above.


says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him (Tt 2:13-14; Heb 2:9; 1 Tim 2:4-6; 4:10; Acts 4:12; Jn 1:29; 3:17; 8:24; 10:7-8,14-16; 14:6; 6:45; Gal 1:6-9; 1 Jn 2:2; 3:8) When Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, He asked if there was any ways this cup could pass from Him, and there was not (Mt 26:37-39). Paul said if anyone preaches a different gospel, let them be accursed in Gal 1:8.

Masons must swear a number of secret oaths. In addition, many of the oaths members have sworn include consenting to have their throats cut, if they break their oath and reveal the secrets.

teaches we are not to have anything to do with deeds of darkness but expose them (Eph 5:11). Do not take oaths (Jms 5:12; Mt 5:34-37). If you take an oath promising to sin, confess your oath and break it, as Lev 5:4-8 shows. See also what Jesus said in Mt 10:26-27 and Jn 18:20.

You are considered in spiritual darkness until you join masonry. When a mason kneels before his lodge leader, his worshipful master, that is a clue that there is something spiritual being presented here.

Christians are children of the light (Eph 5:8; Php 2:15-16; 1 Jn 2:9-10) not masons. Christ saves us completely (Heb 7:25).

It is only the blood of Christ that can get you to Heaven; I am not saying trust in Christ among other things, but trust in Christ alone for your salvation.


If you have sworn secret oaths, oaths that you did not know the content of before you promised them, Leviticus 5:4-6 shows that promises made against your loyalty to God should be repented of, not fulfilled. When you need to choose between your loyalty and promises to masonry, or your loyalty to God, then choose this day whom you will serve.


"… but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15f.

All should agree that masonry is religious. If a mason is in doubt, I suppose he could ask his Worshipful master in the Masonic temple, after their prayer addressing the Great Architect of the Universe, whose celestial lodge they hope to join after death.

But, someone might reply, the YMCA and Salvation Army are also religious, so being religious is not necessarily bad. Thus the issue is not how religious masonry is, but does it ask people to believe and do things contrary to God's word.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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Hi again AW


Originally posted by Andy Warhol
So let me get this straight. I should just drop everything I believe in. Just to get along.

No, quite the opposite. You must have a pre-existing faith to join, and you must continue in faith to be a member. Dropping what you believe in may be grounds for leaving, not joining.


Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It demands of its members a belief in a Supreme Being but provides no system of faith of its own.



Go out and join the lodge. Just to get along with a muslim or someone else of a different religion?

You don't need to become a freemason to get along with those of other faiths



It's a group of men coming together to become better men. It's men who are searching for light I thought. Do people actually think that

Light is only available through study of one's faith. Freemasonry is clear on this point.


Freemasonry is far from indifferent to religion. Without interfering in religious practice it expects each member to follow his own faith, and to place above all other duties his duty to God, by whatever name He is known. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions.



God is loving, but God is also a jealous God (Nahum 1:2). He will not give His glory to another, or his praised to graven images in Isa 42:8. See also Isa 45:5, 24. Masons seem to forget that Elijah showed that God did not tolerate mixing Baal worship with the worship of the true God.

There is no worship within a masonic lodge, and no 'mixing and matching'. There are certainly no 'graven images'.


Freemasons meet in common respect for the Supreme Being, but He remains Supreme in their individual religions, and it is no part of Freemasonry to attempt to join religions together. There is therefore no composite Masonic God.



It may not be the majority of values on this planet. But I think I will stick with the bible. After all the bible is just furniture of the lodge anyway it seems.

You are imagining freemasonry to be something it is not.


Q Aren't you a religion or a rival to religion?
A Emphatically not. Freemasonry requires a belief in God and its principles are common to many of the world's great religions. Freemasonry does not try to replace religion or substitute for it. Every candidate is exhorted to practise his religion and to regard its holy book as the unerring standard of truth. Freemasonry does not instruct its members in what their religious beliefs should be, nor does it offer sacrements. Freemasonry deals in relations between men; religion deals in a man's relationship with his God.



On one hand they hold the Muslim Quran and the Hindu Rig-Veda as having equal standing with the Bible.

No. I thought I'd explained this. The Bible is open at all masonic meetings all the time. Another book is only in use for a non-Christian to take his obligation on, as the Bible will have no meaning to them.


On the other hand, they see masonry as containing the good of other religions, and for some masons superseding the "superstitions" of Christianity and other religions

Freemasonry makes no judgement as to which religion may or not be better than another. It's a fraternity, not a religion.


There are two problems here: Jesus blood is just an option, and all go to Heaven.

Freemasonry recognizes that different religions have aspirations to a future life beyond this one. For Christian freemasons this is clearly Heaven, attainable only through the blood shed by the Lord Jesus Christ. If another freemason believes something different to that then that's his problem and none of my business within the lodge.


Masonry teaches that purity of life and conduct is involved to be admitted to the "Celestial Lodge" above.

It doesn't say that that's all that's required



says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through Him (Tt 2:13-14; Heb 2:9; 1 Tim 2:4-6; 4:10; Acts 4:12; Jn 1:29; 3:17; 8:24; 10:7-8,14-16; 14:6; 6:45; Gal 1:6-9; 1 Jn 2:2; 3:8) When Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, He asked if there was any ways this cup could pass from Him, and there was not (Mt 26:37-39). Paul said if anyone preaches a different gospel, let them be accursed in Gal 1:8.

Yes, Christian freemasons believe this too. Freemasonry does not "preach" or offer any gospel to its members.


Masons must swear a number of secret oaths. In addition, many of the oaths members have sworn include consenting to have their throats cut, if they break their oath and reveal the secrets.

You are referring to the traditional penalties. I explain all this fully in the thread Bloody oaths are not taken lightly


You are considered in spiritual darkness until you join masonry. When a mason kneels before his lodge leader, his worshipful master, that is a clue that there is something spiritual being presented here.

No-one kneels before the Worshipful Master, all kneeling is done before God.


It is only the blood of Christ that can get you to Heaven; I am not saying trust in Christ among other things, but trust in Christ alone for your salvation.

I do, but thankyou for the reminder.


When you need to choose between your loyalty and promises to masonry, or your loyalty to God, then choose this day whom you will serve.

I have made no promises within masonry that are incompatible with my faith and would not do so.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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Hey Andy

You might be interested in getting hold of a copy of "David versus Goliath" by David S. Julian. It covers a lot of this stuff and makes for a very interesting read. I'm sure it's out there on the Net somewhere.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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Never heard of that book Trin. Can you give some info. Going to Barnes and Nobel later today. I'll see if they have it their. Thanks.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Thus the issue is not how religious masonry is, but does it ask people to believe and do things contrary to God's word.



The obvious problem is that people don't agree on what "God's word" is. The Christian claims it's the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. The Jew claims it's only the Old Testament. The Hindu says the Upanishads, and the Muslim, the Qu'ran.

Therefore, Masonry, using common sense, claims that such questions are for each man to decide for himself, and concentrates upon that which all can agree on.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Therefore, Masonry, using common sense, claims that such questions are for each man to decide for himself, and concentrates upon that which all can agree on.


WHAT???!!!!????

ML, are you suggesting that Masonry (unlike some religious organization I know of) actually allows it's member to THINK....for THEMSELVES...and not be TOLD WHAT TO THINK????

ACCCCKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

You, you, you HERETIC!

Off with his head, I say!!!!




posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Ahhh,

I see said the blind man.
To each his own.
It took a while, but I believe I have finally figured it out.
My Father's house has many mansions, some dark some light, all supportive.

Kindest Regards. All sermons have been filed for future use.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Never heard of that book Trin. Can you give some info. Going to Barnes and Nobel later today. I'll see if they have it their. Thanks.

I don't know if its available as a book. I have a PDF I downloaded from here

I hope you don't go to the same Barnes & Noble I went to today. There were one or two other people there


[edit on 12/23/06 by Trinityman]



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 07:56 PM
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I don't think we go to the same one. I live here in Husonville Mich. The closet on is in Holland Mich. I went a few days ago. The place was jammed with holiday shoppers.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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Masons belive in the god of jabulon, there for it is incompatible with crestianity.
Kneling down blind folded and then saying over and over jabulon jabulon jabulon while the ritual go's on , how can this be compatible with cristianity?
Is any one saying I'm not telling the truth ? can any mason do that, go on and lie to me, tell me it's not true.



posted on Dec, 23 2006 @ 11:44 PM
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Ohh I love the jahbulohn subject (or all the different ways it is spelled on the internet.) So I'll go on and lie to you, it's not true, it's not true.

A Fraternity. Learning from members of different faiths. I have met Buddhist monks in Korea that were some of the most content and centered people I have ever met. I have met Sikhs in Washington, D.C. who have a smile on their face more often than we could hope for in a life time. I have met Muslims in the United Arab Emirates whose daily religious dutied provide them with a sense of knowledge and content that I could only one day hope for in our fast-paced Western world.

Why wouldn't you want to learn from that?

Simply because they hold different religious beliefs than my own as a Christian does not mean I can not learn from them. Does that not sound like something Christ would appreciate? Do I think they are on the true path, no, but I simultaneously respect and willfully learn from their life lessons on how to be a better person.



posted on Dec, 24 2006 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Baphomet79
Ohh I love the jahbulohn subject (or all the different ways it is spelled on the internet.) So I'll go on and lie to you, it's not true, it's not true.

I don't think you are telling the truth, and you know why? because I know you are not.
Hmmm so let's see, what is the diffrence betwen my word and your word, I guess the 2 of us sustain that each are right, so how does every one know you are the one telling the truth? simply because you say so?
I guess some one from the 2 of us is lieing

PS ...I know you are not telling the truth, and this is my opinion, because me unlike you
have something to back my clame.

My clame was that massons knele down blind folded while the name of jabulan is mentioned over and over, but you have said in your humoros way that I'm right, it's right there in your quote, I give you credit for that, i was refering of course to the fact that massonary is not compatible with cristianity, and not that you are not telling the truth that jabulon is mentioned in the oath over and over while blind folded and kneling down.
The problem is that you are not telling the truth about the fact that crisianity is not compatible with massonary.

I'm not going to quote you on the rest of what you further stated because the rest of what you say is off quoting me and far away, irelevant and with out any cover.
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