Freemasonry and Christianity

Originally posted by Baphomet79
Jesus has been around since the beginning of time, yet the Bible says Jesus was crucified and died under Pontius Pilate. How is that the begging of time? Their exist hundreds of documents and artifacts that predate the event. Not to sound corny, but DENY IGNORANCE!

Well, the GODHEAD is a three part entity. The Father, The Son, and The HOLY GHOST (sheds light on the "let us make man in our image"). In a similar way we are two part, flesh and spirit(soul).

All three are one, yet when speaking of one we speak of all three. The name of all three is JESUS CHRIST as was revealed. TRUE the flesh that the word was made into was crucified 2000 years ago, but the WORD, the Architect of the Universe himself, JESUS CHRIST, is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last (Rev1:11).

I agree wisesheep, Jesus Christ is everything. But while explaining that "the word" biblically is Jesus Christ, that doesn't mean that there can be no other words for other symbolism than Jesus Christ. As was stated earlier, the secret word in Freemasonry is just a word that they use(possibly a password of some sort), and it is referred to as "the word". What else could they refer an important word of their fraternity as? Just like a secret code or password, does it have to be Jesus Christ for every situation?

Originally posted by WiseSheep


Actually no. Christianity has been around since the foundations of the Earth.

Actually, no. Christianity has been around about 2,000 years.

As it is written, the WORD was with GOD and the WORD WAS GOD and the WORD was made flesh and revealed to be JESUS CHRIST, you [qsee... nothing predates him.

We're not talking about Christ, we're talking about the religion of Christianity. There you go confusing things again.

Where was Greek Philosophy before Abraham?

In Greece. Duh.

This makes for some good sheep bait, but is it written? Are there manuscripts proven to date around the days of Solomon giving one precise instruction on these rituals and how to arrange them?

You give pretty good sheep bait yourself, but nobody's bitin'. As I've already mentioned, it's a legend, kind of like the story of Robin Hood. It doesn't have to be historically literal for it to have poetic meaning.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
We're not talking about Christ, we're talking about the religion of Christianity.

The two are separate how?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In Greece. Duh.

Where was Greece before Adam?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
You give pretty good sheep bait yourself, but nobody's bitin'.

I'm not baiting anything, my shepherd takes care of the flock. I'm just feeling led to cast a little light on a herd of goats. That's all.

Do they pass the plate after this sermon ?
Will we be having an altar call ?

Before Adam was, there was man. Adam is an representation of the first self aware man, the first man to question where he came from, the first man to not remember being an animal.

Historicly though, the Hindus and the Sumerians beat him to it by hundreds of years.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
You give pretty good sheep bait yourself, but nobody's bitin'.

ML,

Sounds more like sheep dip to me...OOPS...did I say that out loud???


One thing's for sure...we've got "another one" on the list.

Prepare yourselves to be entertained.

there you go drifting away from the main subject, that would be is masonary compatible with crisianity.
Answer=NO

Originally posted by pepsi78
there you go drifting away from the main subject, that would be is masonary compatible with crisianity.
Answer=NO

Don't knock it until you've tried it. Who are you to say they are incompatible until you have experienced it (it being Masonry.) I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

Originally posted by Baphomet79

Originally posted by pepsi78
there you go drifting away from the main subject, that would be is masonary compatible with crisianity.
Answer=NO

Don't knock it until you've tried it. Who are you to say they are incompatible until you have experienced it (it being Masonry.) I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

keeing and taking oaths involving god are forbiten in the bible.
There for cristianity is incompatible with masonary, it's there black on white in the bible, it does not take a genius to figure it out.
I could make a list really . there probaly are so many incompabilities I would lose count.
See , after all I'm not comparing masonary with crisianity as 2 religions, like triniry man expected, it does not matter if I think if masonary is a religion or not, this is not the thread to specify that, masonary does not have to be a religion to be incompatible with cristianity.



[edit on 21-12-2006 by pepsi78]

So you are basing your assumptions on.....what you have heard. I am a devout Christian and was worried previous to my Initiation that it would conflict with my religious beliefs. I am sorry but until you have experienced something you have ABSOLUTELY no grounds to refute it.

Originally posted by Baphomet79
So you are basing your assumptions on.....what you have heard. I am a devout Christian and was worried previous to my Initiation that it would conflict with my religious beliefs. I am sorry but until you have experienced something you have ABSOLUTELY no grounds to refute it.

Exactly right Baphomet79. Not only have I NEVER had a conflict with being a Christian and a Mason, I even joined the CATHOLIC Church a while back AND remained a Mason.

It has never interfered with my beliefs in any way, nor CAN it (it being "Freemasonry") to anyone who understands it.

Pepsi, no offense meant, but you seem quick to give advice, so here's some that should be of value to you. You obviously believe there IS a conflict between Christianity and Masonry it seems pretty simple to me.

Don't join. Masonry (note the correct English spelling) is NOT for everyone and it's obviously not right for you and you are not right for it.

Some of us are and enjoy it with NO conflicts.

I was thumbing through my bible. I like to read it from time to time. I should read it much more then I do know. I'am wary of freemasonry. But feel not every mason is a agent evil. I feel that some of the aspects of masonry are not christian consepts. I will give a few scriptures from bible below. So that their is no confusion I read the KJV. I now many people here use different versions. So lets talk.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest
any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9)

"without shedding of blood is no remission" (Hebrews 9:22)

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" (Romans 3:20)

Many mason here and on Freemasonrypride.com boast about all the charity masons do. At times it seems that many masons believe that by good works you can get to heaven. But Hebrews 9:22 tells otherwise.

Freemasonry teachs that the christian honor all faiths even ones that don't believe in God and Jesus Christ. Deny the virgin birth of Jesus, or even deny that Jesus is the son of God. How can a Christian honor and reverence that?

"I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." (1 Cor. 10:20-21)

"But be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with
unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14)

"come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord" (2 Cor. 6:17)

"Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" (1 Cor. 5:6)

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist" (1 John 2:23)

"He that commiteth sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8)

"If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:9)

"have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them" (Eph. 5:11)

Freemasonry teaches that all books of
faith, whether or not they deny Christ, are simply additional volumes of the Bible, as though they are, also,
inspired by God

"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Rev.22:18-19)

"For we are not as many which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of
God speak we in Christ." (2 Cor. 2:17)

"we have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of
God deceitfully" (2 Cor. 4:2)

Last. It seems that any many who joins the lodge is coming from outer darkness. A true born again christian is not in the dark. He doesn't need any light from masonry. Can anyone below a Mastor Mason get to heaven? Of course.

"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." (Matt. 23:10)

"they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"
(Matt. 15:14)

"Ye are the light of the world" (Matt. 5:14)

"light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil...he
that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
(John 3:19-21)

"but the path of the just is as the shining light...the way of the wicked is as darkness" (Proverbs 4:18-19)

"open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins" (Acts 26:18)

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of
the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 4:6)

"Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14)

"For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light" (Eph. 5:8)

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, either shadow of turning." (James 1:17)

I got these from the bible and thought these would be a great addition to this discussion. I tend to keep a wary on freemasonry. I think that if you are a honest born again christian you do not need the light of masonry.

"have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even
to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light." (Ephesians 5:11-13)

he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest" (John 3:21)

"nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither anything hid, that shall not be known and come
abroad." (Luke 8:17)

"God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ" (Romans 2:16)

"there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore,
whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear
in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops." (Luke 12:2-3)

"Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world...and in secret have I said nothing. (John 18:20)

There are a number of other reasons that I would stay away from Freemasonry. They write that "the
greatest privilege is that of being recognized before men as a worthy member of the noblest organization
ever perfected by man" (Address to Candidate on Receiving the Third Degree). That is quite a statement.
The Bible teaches that if you exalt yourself, you will be humbled (Matt. 23:12). Of course, the greatest
privilege is to be called a child of God, which we are not worthy of, in ourselves.

There are many other verses but I don't think that masonry is compatiable with christianity. It just my opinion.

Ah! So instead you prefer to condemn good men of all faiths because they don't believe exactly as you do? Fine. So we condemn pious men of all non-Christian faiths for being non-Christian? Once that's dealt with, what do we do when the Catholics and the Protestants go at it again? And then the Baptists and the Anglicans? Mormons and Presbyterian? I guess mankind's history of using religious intolerance to further secular ends escaped your notice.

Which would you prefer? A self-righteously intolerant world with all sects vying to cut each others' throats or a world where a man's beliefs are no longer a death sentence? There's more that binds us than separates us. More's the pity when the absolutists of the world try to divide.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I'am wary of freemasonry. But feel not every mason is a agent evil. I feel Last. It seems that any many who joins the lodge is coming from outer darkness. A true born again christian is not in the dark. He doesn't need any light from masonry. Can anyone below a Mastor Mason get to heaven? Of course.

I got these from the bible and thought these would be a great addition to this discussion. I tend to keep a wary on freemasonry. I think that if you are a honest born again christian you do not need the light of masonry.

There are a number of other reasons that I would stay away from Freemasonry. They write that "the
greatest privilege is that of being recognized before men as a worthy member of the noblest organization
ever perfected by man" (Address to Candidate on Receiving the Third Degree). That is quite a statement.
The Bible teaches that if you exalt yourself, you will be humbled (Matt. 23:12). Of course, the greatest
privilege is to be called a child of God, which we are not worthy of, in ourselves.

There are many other verses but I don't think that masonry is compatiable with christianity. It just my opinion.

Andy,

Your opinion is just that. YOUR opinion (which you expressed as such...and I thank you for that) However quoting passages from the Bible (many of them out of context by the way) really doesn't prove much to most of us. Particularly those of us who ARE devout Christians and those of us who ARE active Masons. (You know, the guys on the "inside" who REALLY understand how Masonry works).

Please do not take this as being an insult, because I do NOT mean it as such. I've said this before (earlier today in fact) Masonry is NOT for everyone (any more than being a member of the PTA or the Lions Club or the Republican Party is for everyone)

That being said, Masonry is obviously not for you. If you feel that Christianity is not compatible with Freemasonry, then you would NOT be a good Mason...and as such, quite frankly, we don't want you. We want good Masons.

Masonry does NOT interfere with the religious beliefs of ANYONE in ANY way, but if perchance a prospective member feels that his religous beliefs conflict with the teachings of Freemasonry, we do not need him, nor want him. His efforts are better spent working in the Church of his choice.

Personally I work in both. I am an active Mason and a devout active Christian. Not everyone can do this.

'tis human nature.

My best to you Andy.

Originally posted by WiseSheep


The two are separate how?

The religion of Christianity began as a small Jewish cult in the first century A.D. It became a major world religion when declared official by the Emperor Constantine. If you didn't know this very basic stuff, perhaps you should repeat 4th grade.

Originally posted by Masonic Light


Where was Greece before Adam?

In the Mediterranean, bordering what is now Turkey.

I'm not baiting anything, my shepherd takes care of the flock. I'm just feeling led to cast a little light on a herd of goats. That's all.

Can you say "Baaaaaaaaah"?

I really wish everyone on this board could be as claim and nice as this. Appak and Masonic Light thanks. Appak you are right. I couldn't be a mason. Nor would I want to be. Their are just to many things that I would question. I think me and the W.M. would get into it But just because we don't believe in the same thing doesn't mean we can't be nice to each other. I think many people can learn from the discussion right here. In the last few replies Appak, Masonic Light, and myself have had. Great replies thank guys!

[edit on 22-12-2006 by Andy Warhol]

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
But just because we don't believe in the same thing doesn't mean we can't be nice to each other.

AW

I think the irony here is that you, Appak, ML and myself all believe quite firmly and strongly in the same thing. We have all independently come to the conclusion that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. However, three of us are also freemasons with (I would guess) upwards of 50 years experience of the compatibility of the two.

Freemasonry seeks to help people find their own path in conjunction with the faith of their choice. That you are even thinking about these matters and following your own path is wisdom in itself.

Good luck and God Bless You.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by Baphomet79

Originally posted by pepsi78
there you go drifting away from the main subject, that would be is masonary compatible with crisianity.
Answer=NO

Don't knock it until you've tried it. Who are you to say they are incompatible until you have experienced it (it being Masonry.) I think you would be pleasantly surprised.

keeing and taking oaths involving god are forbiten in the bible.
There for cristianity is incompatible with masonary, it's there black on white in the bible, it does not take a genius to figure it out.
I could make a list really . there probaly are so many incompabilities I would lose count.
See , after all I'm not comparing masonary with crisianity as 2 religions, like triniry man expected, it does not matter if I think if masonary is a religion or not, this is not the thread to specify that, masonary does not have to be a religion to be incompatible with cristianity.



[edit on 21-12-2006 by pepsi78]

It also says in black in white that Jesus came for Jews and not to bother with the gentiles (3 times to be exact) yet that part is systematicly ignored.

So if we get to pick and choose what parts we have to follow I choose to ignore the "Oath" parts as well as most of the writtings of Paul.

Arguing the bible is a argument you cant win.

Just a quick question to the masons. Is Christ's redemption ever mentioned in the lodge?

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Just a quick question to the masons. Is Christ's redemption ever mentioned in the lodge?

No, of course not. Freemasonry is a fraternity and has a membership not exclusively comprised of Christians. But I think you know this.

I have a quick question for you in return. Why would this be important to you?