End all be all...Russia's Status as a Super Power

Originally posted by vK_man
tokomak reactor was created by sakharov , first ion thrusters in space were soviet, also the first military grade lasers were soviet .... and their plasma physics was the top level...

How would you know about their plasma physics ?

'himoyad' red mercury existence was confirmed by mr. samuel cohen and so also by mr.krutov aka vladmir frolov

Red Mercury is a fairy tale.

if you got further doubts ask mauros for his email address and contact mr.krutov personally, i initially was skeptical like you , but after long conversations and discussions i am convinced that he is stating the truth ..

Except you have no proof. Even teh website which published the inrterview said that alot of it was probablymade up BS.
No offence but it's more fairytale thahn fact.

]

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
dude, ask any WW2 pilot of Britain and they will tell you that if it wasn't for the Polish pilots who fought there Britain would have most likely been invaded by the Nazis. Have you even heard of the Polish 303 of ww2? why do you think they were called, along with some US pilots, "The Glamour Boys of England"? but i'm sure the Brits would have given them hell if they tried to invade, and even if they succeded in taking England the fighting wouldn't have stopped. because Hitler couldn't get air supremacy over England, LARGELY IN THANKS TO THE 303/and the best of the RAF, he changed his mind and instead invaded Russia. that turned the tide of the war. if you knew half as much as you think you did about the Battle of Britain, you would agree that the Polish, Czech, and French pilots that flew in attachments with the RAF played a decisive role in the battle.

LOL, the Polish pilots didn't change the tide of war at all. I think you are deluding yourself, especially since the POles got their ass kicked in 1939.
There were far more than just Poles flying, the Brits had pilots frm all ove rthe Commonwealth, Australia, Canada, South Africa etc. THe Poles made up but one small percentage. Of ciurse what really kept teh NAzi's out of England was teh RN.
Also Hitler " didn't change his mind and attack Russia ", that had always been his plan. Britain was but a side show.

INteresting their was only one Polish Ace, hardly outstanding.

1 Polish Ace?

nice counting- (btw, the highest scoring ace of ww2 was Polish also)

www.acesofww2.com...

and are you even reading what i am saying, HELPED TURN THE TIDE OF WAR, i not once said they were the one and only reason it turned to Britains favor. they helped start a series of events which led to the turn of the war.

if you want to argue about this just U2U me for the sake of everyone else, that ok with you?

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
and are you even reading what i am saying, HELPED TURN THE TIDE OF WAR, i not once said they were the one and only reason it turned to Britains favor. they helped start a series of events which led to the turn of the war.

LOL, they helped turn the tide of war as much as the millions of other servicement involved as well. I assume that is what you're saying. You seem to imply that there contribution alone helped turn teh tide of war in teh Battle of Britain, they didn't.
The only things the Poles wre really known for was getting their ass kicked and having 1/4 of their populaiton killed. The Poles were completely defeated and the populaiton completely supprressed, they didn't defeat teh NAzi's at all. The Germans had complete control fo the population.

.

How would you know about their plasma physics ?

because they had the most massive research based on this ... if you will most soviet was in relation to high energy plasmas and magnetic compression ...
soviet created the first true effective plasma weapon:

The Radio Instrument Building Research Institute under the supervision of Academician A. Avramenko developed a plasma weapon capable of killing any target at altitudes of up to 50 kilometers. Engineers and scientists of the institute in cooperation with the National Research Institute of Experimental Physics (Arzamas-16), Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, and Central Machine Building Research
www.warfare.ru...

Red Mercury is a fairy tale.

fairy tale for you not me ... it was a result of sakharov theory of compression i.e. result by "magnetic compression" ( a system invented by Andrei Sakharov in 1952) i.e a accidental byproduct ..

Except you have no proof. Even teh website which published the inrterview said that alot of it was probablymade up BS.

wrong they said that his resumme is limited and he's well known on resistance sites...
==============================
Worldthreats.com must stress that the ability to confirm the 'resume' of Krutov is limited. All that can be confirmed is that the name is indeed somewhat well-known in certain areas of Russian resistance websites and web forums, and the organizations he mentions do exist. It is of the opinion of some who have read that he is exaggerating his past experience, which may well be true.

This interview, it must be stressed, is not about the plans of the Communist resistance in Russia, but rather the ideology and mindset of devout Marxist-Leninists, whose power is rising
=======================================

here's one of websites :

thefinalphase.boom.ru

there was another one soviettechnology.boom.ru , but he claims that it was destroyed by govt hired hackers for stating some sensitive info related to the AYAKS, and about soviet/russian research on almazoid that was mathematical in nature

No offence but it's more fairytale thahn fact

fairytale for u ....
well his predictions that uSA would establish bases in ex-soviet republics to threaten russia are turning out to be true... and his claims on stalinism in russia is turned out to be true

no offence .... many russians dislike his theories and ideas because they feel he is severely understating the capability of russia ... and is a Nazbol communist...
believe whatever you feel is true ... everybody has different opinions

believe whatever you like as this is conspiracy forum ... i dont state such info normally and most on warfare.ru,bharat-rakshak and pravda.ru forums .... i don't like this place much .....
in my opinion technocracy.ca is the best ....

by the way are u influenced by deng or mao .....

your signature seems to indicate u are influenced by kennedy ....
i heard that talk on democracy is supposed to be politcally unintelligient in china , am i right or wrong ????




[edit on 31-1-2007 by vK_man]


[edit on 31-1-2007 by vK_man]

I am still waiting for proof of anyrthing you state. All you have is a few Russian websites which are obviously trying to glorify the power of Russia.

PS. The physics for " Red Mercury " weapons is completely unsound and BS. Sakharov didn't invent REd Mercury weapons, I think this goes to show how little you know about nuclear physics, sorry. People who dont know anything about the subject are very easy to convince of fairytales.

Originally posted by CrazyPolak
1 Polish Ace?

nice counting- (btw, the highest scoring ace of ww2 was Polish also)

www.acesofww2.com...

It was quite obvious in my reply that I was referring to your qute about the BAttle of Britain and yes there was only one ace. I suggest you learn how to count.
Besides in WW2, out of all teh countries with aces, Poland must rank somewhere near the bottom, so big deal. They hardly influenced the war at all, actually I'd say that if they weren't there, it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference.

Originally posted by rogue1
I am still waiting for proof of anyrthing you state. All you have is a few Russian websites which are obviously trying to glorify the power of Russia.

PS. .

Sakharov didn't invent REd Mercury weapons, I think this goes to show how little you know about nuclear physics, sorry

man , didn't you understand ....
i meant sakharov theory of magnetic compression help in deriving himoyad that too it was not sakharov invented red mercury red mercury was derived from , sorry ,maybe you didn't understand what i meant...
i.e i meant the condition of baryogenesis
Actually there are three conditions required for baryogenesis, first stated by Andrei Sakharov:

1: C & CP violation, to drive the creation of matter over antimatter
2: baryon number (B) violating processes
3: non-equilibrium conditions

initially the soviet govt tried to create anti-matter hoping to use it for interstellar travel and weapons but failed too ..
once baryogenesis is achieved it is possible to create anti-matter ...
for this ultra dense magnetic fields are required ... apparently though though USSR failed in creating anti-matter ... it ended up with a by-product accidently called himoyad... which is useful for low yield pure fusion nukes

by the time himoyad was discovered sakharov was a peaceNIK

The physics for " Red Mercury " weapons is completely unsound and BS. . People who dont know anything about the subject are very easy to convince of fairytales

claim whatever you like and contact krutov if you like

All you have is a few Russian websites which are obviously trying to glorify the power of Russia

GLORIFYING EHHH!!!!.....
WHAT IS THIS THEN:

This is my personal, subjective view. The Americans destroyed my home country and occupied its land, after all.
I predicted the fall of the MAD system by 2001. And it has really fallen! By 2001, RUSSIA IS NO LONGER OFFICIALLY CONSIDERED AS A NUCLEAR POWER BY NATO. Why? Because Russia cannot retaliate. The RVSN (Russian nuclear missile army) is in ruins, the first warning system is destroyed (I have plans for a Russian warning system). Americans can destroy all the Russian nukes before they can even start—even without using US nukes, just with cruise missiles, placed in the ex-Soviet republics. Forget about the Cold War. Russia was never a military superpower. The Soviet Union was. Not Russia.
As a military specialist, I have been analyzing a possible American attack on Russia for many years. It is a real threat, I assure you.
www.worldthreats.com...

DOES THIS MEAN GLORIFYING ... IS IVAN KRUTOV GLORIFYING ...

[edit on 31-1-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 31-1-2007 by vK_man]

^^ As I said it's the biggest load of BS I've come across, none of which you cna prove. With reguards to Red Mercury all you've done is plagarised some site, you don't even know what you're talking about. Why don't you explain in your own words how Red Mecury weapons work. OK ?

Originally posted by rogue1
^^ As I said it's the biggest load of BS I've come across, none of which you cna prove. With reguards to Red Mercury all you've done is plagarised some site, you don't even know what you're talking about. Why don't you explain in your own words how Red Mecury weapons work. OK ?

As I said it's the biggest load of BS I've come across

as i said you can continue with your rants ...

With reguards to Red Mercury all you've done is plagarised some site,

actually , no western source nor samuel cohen states this... you can check it out ..
i guarantee you that.... actually the explanation comes from the former soviet colonel himself

Why don't you explain in your own words how Red Mecury weapons work. OK ?

firstly, guess why there is a need of massive ultra dense magnetic fields required to create such properties
1) to make it super efficient microwave energy absorber
2) to compress and manipulate the electron energy shells to absorb more energy and create such conditions that when high amount of energy in the invisible spectrum can
passed it starts compression ( this part i could not understand)
3) also these bombs could be activated via soviet space stations or vengence command centers

and yes , read this (russian govt does have 'officially' plans for pure fusion weapons:

Russian weapons designers (and, presumably, their counterparts in other countries) have been for years developing new classes of nuclear weapons, with yields as low as a few tens of tons and one hundred to one thousand times "cleaner" than the current generation of weapons. (This will be because they achieve fusion without a fission primary, which means that no radioactive fissile material is used, and that there is no need to achieve critical mass, so that very small nuclear explosions are possible.)
www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil...
www.ciaonet.org...

Another Russian Soviet Superweapon site, huh? This is moronic. Either Russians have them or they don't and want us to think they do. If they do have them they either plan to use them in actual combat in a suprise attack, or they would want to make political gains by declaring they have them, which they have decidedly NOT done with any credibility. Boiled down, that would mean they either are going to sucker puch us, or they are full of BS. Given Tesla was in the US, and most of his notes consficated by the FBI on his death, if these weapons truely do exist it would be the US that has them, and their secret was easiest to keep since the US has never been in a mortal combat situation as Russia has where such weapons would have been used.
Anyway, I am tired of people trying to speculate what is behind the classified world curtain, because nobody will admit it if they knew anyway. Jail or death would be likely.

You underestimate Russia my friend. Russia just paid off its debt to the Paris Club this year. They are a solvent economy. Russia is making so much money its frieghtening--oil, natural gas and boutique hi-tech weapons.

www.iht.com...

"After relying on foreign loans for much of the 1990s and defaulting on its sovereign debt, Russia's finances are in good health, thanks to record prices for oil and natural gas - its main exports.
In the six years since Vladimir Putin became president, Russia has earned hundreds of billions of dollars from oil and natural gas sales.
A budget surplus of $56 billion is projected for next year and hard currency reserves are the third-largest in the world, after those of Japan and China, at $277 billion. The economy is growing at a healthy clip of 6 percent to 7 percent annually."

mtrn jnsn

An article from the Russian magazine Ogonek reported that in Russia and the other republics there are now 27 cities involved in strategic weapons production and development which have been CLOSED to Westerners. Many of these facilities are purported to be located underground, encased in granite. The Russian government employs 755.000 people in these facilities. Between 1.500 and 2.000 of these people are scientists, the rest are technicians and workers.

Originally posted by Fennie
An article from the Russian magazine Ogonek reported that in Russia and the other republics there are now 27 cities involved in strategic weapons production and development which have been CLOSED to Westerners. Many of these facilities are purported to be located underground, encased in granite. The Russian government employs 755.000 people in these facilities. Between 1.500 and 2.000 of these people are scientists, the rest are technicians and workers.

FENNIE ,

COULD YOU PROVIDE ME THE ARTICLE OR a link

thank you

vk

About 30 years ago, a congress of all world communist parties agreed to resurrect a strategy which Lenin implemented with astonishing success in morally and physically disarming the internal and external opponents of his program. The strategy, conceived by his secret police, was disinformation - the deliberately false portrayal of the true conditions and practices of the communist world in order to elicit desired reactions from the non-communist world.
In periods of true weakness and crises within the communist world, the carefully crafted image was one of aggressive strength and expansion, and all communist practice was geared to create that image. In periods of actual strength and solidarity within the communist leadership, the system was portrayed as weak, struggling, transitional and open to co-operation with the Western family of nations.

To dissipate the barriers posed by the military/industrial colossus in the West, the Soviet bloc had to be portrayed as a peace-loving and on a road toward convergence with the West ideologically - in short, no longer a threat. Thus the massive and disarmament drives of recent years. To disarm the democracies, there had to be convincing proof that the democratic road was being taken. And to convince the world that the forces for democracy were real, there would have to be, for a time, resistance from on high, even feigned capitulation.

Now this is interesting.
Conspiricies within the former Soviet bloc are beyond any confirming given their levels of secrecy, so we have to expect the unexpected here.
I would not doubt that there might be such a conpsiricy, within Yamantau Mountain complex perhaps where there are many mysteries to the west. What did Churchill say, I think, about the Soviets? "a secret within an enigma within a mystery ..."
Or something close.
This is something far enough out there that I might believe given historical suprise and secrets and strategic advantages BEFORE the conflict.

Now this is interesting.
Conspiricies within the former Soviet bloc are beyond any confirming given their levels of secrecy, so we have to expect the unexpected here.
I would not doubt that there might be such a conpsiricy, within Yamantau Mountain complex perhaps where there are many mysteries to the west. What did Churchill say, I think, about the Soviets? "a secret within an enigma within a mystery ..."
Or something close.
This is something far enough out there that I might believe given historical suprise and secrets and strategic advantages BEFORE the conflict.

Originally posted by rogue1
Oh please post this " information " of yours. I would truly like to see it. LOL and now the CIA is saying the South attacked the North ?

Can't find the link where i read that so you will just have to wait.

C'mon this is stupid.

You do like the word 'stupid' don't you.

I'm wondering why teh underequipped South Korean Army would attacked the well equipped and well trained North Korean Army ?

Because the 'leader' of the South had very little if any support in the South and thus tried to unite ( and draw in the US) people behind him by inviting attack by the North knowing that he would be saved and his regime fortified against civil uprisings. Just go study the massive atrocity the South's security forces perpetrated against their own people for supposedly being communist.

The head of South Korea, Syngman Rhee, had often expressed his desire and readiness to compel the unification of Korea by force. On 26 June the New York Times reminded its readers that "on a number of occasions, Dr. Rhee has indicated that his army would have taken the offensive if Washington had given the consent." The newspaper noted also that before the war began: "The warlike talk strangely [had] almost all come from South Korean leaders." Rhee may have had good reason for provoking a full-scale war apart from the issue of unification. On 30 May, elections for the National Assembly were held in the

South in which Rhee's party suffered a heavy setback and lost control of the assembly. Like countless statesmen before and after him, Rhee may have decided to play the war card to rally support for his shaky rule. A labor adviser attached to the American aid mission in South Korea, Stanley Earl, resigned in July, expressing the opinion that the South Korean government was "an oppressive regime" which "did very little to help the people" and that "an internal South Korean rebellion against the Rhee Government
would have occurred if the forces of North Korea had not invaded".

William Blum, Killing hope.

See this is where your lack of logic is exposed for all to see.

Lack of logic?

First i suggest reading William Blum's "Killing Hope" as he provides a great deal of background information on the Korean War; i cant find what he has to say in such detail online but i know you know how to get the ebook.

Here is some information i did manage to find but Blum's work is the best summary

While South Korea seemed to enjoy the military advantage early in the year, that advantage shifted north by late 1949, with the return of North Korean units that had fought in China's civil war. This shift now made Kim Il Sung eager to strike south. It remains unclear whether Kim thought in terms of a quick strike to seize Seoul or a full-scale invasion of the south. Regardless, what is clear is that both sides were eager for battle.

Deane reports that Kim failed to win Stalin's support for a strike until May 1950. Still, Stalin was cautious and let Kim know that he would not support an unprovoked attack. Deane notes that the North "asserted on June 26, 1950, that the South had started the war by a general assault across the 38th parallel." While there is no evidence of a general assault, there are good reasons for believing that the South struck first, attacking the key northern city of Haeju. The South actually claimed to have taken the city, although it presented its victory as part of a counterattack against the northern offensive. However, the overall military situation makes such a counterattack highly unlikely.

It is more likely that the South launched a first strike across the border, hoping to trigger a northern attack so as to enlist U.S. forces in a march north. The North, having waited for just such a provocation, obliged by sending its troops south. And the United States, eager for an incident to further its own aims, was quick to intervene in what was clearly a civil war between Koreans.

www.monthlyreview.org...

The hot war apparently began at Ongjin very near the 38th Parallel in western Korea about 3 or 4 a.m. on June 25 (Korean time), 1950. This was in the same general area where heavy fighting had erupted at Kaesong in early May 1949, when battles, apparently started by six infantry companies from the south, lasted four days, taking the lives of 400 North Korean and 22 South Korean soldiers. According to U.S. and South Korean officials, nearly 100 civilians were also killed in Kaesong. Subsequent heavy fighting occurred in June on the remote Onjin Peninsula on the west coast above Seoul, and in August when forces from the north attacked the ROKA occupying a small mountain north of the 38th Parallel. Rhee had constantly threatened attacks on North Korea, creating anxiety among U.S. advisers. Just how the fighting started and by whom on that particular day, June 25, 1950, depends on one's source of information. The North's official version claims that South Korean forces had been shelling with howitzers and mortars the Unpa-san area on the Ongjin Peninsula on June 23-24. Then the ROKA's 17th Regiment attacked a northern unit at Turak Mountain on the Onjin Peninsula on June 25 which was repelled by the northern forces. The South claimed, on the contrary, that elements of ROKA's 17th Regiment counterattacked and were in possession of Haeju city, the only location north of the 38th Parallel claimed to have been taken by the South's forces. This was announced on the morning of June 26. The details are irrelevant, however, since a civil and revolutionary war had been raging for nearly two years with military incursions moving routinely back and forth across the 38th Parallel. The war was announced to the world as a premeditated, belligerent attack of communist forces from the north against a sovereign democratic society in the south. The quick introduction of U.S./U.N. military forces beginning on June 26 occurred with no understanding by the West (except by a few astute observors such as journalist I.F. Stone) that in fact they were entering an active revolutionary, civil war in progress explicitly against five years of U.S. interference with the passionate effort of indigenous Koreans to achieve genuine independence. These additional outside forces simply fueled Korean passions even more, while creating further divisions among them.

This tragic paranoid misunderstanding by the U.S., and the West in general, accompanied by deeply held racism, helps to explain, but not in any way excuse, the massive numbers of civilians ("gooks") massacred by U.S./U.N. forces, including, of course, by the ROK army itself, and the incredible devastation of civilian targets and murder of millions of civilians from the tenacious aerial bombing campaigns conducted throughout the war. Many of the bombing missions were carried out by the 1,008 bomber crews of the Strategic Air Command (SAC) under direction of its young and reckless commanding General, Curtis LeMay, who had recently directed the firebombings that destroyed all or parts of sixty-six Japanese cities in 1945. The extent of the hatred felt by U.S. forces toward Koreans was sometimes reported by shocked news people. The derogatory term "gooks" was as commonly applied to Koreans by U.S. military personnel as it was to Vietnamese later, during the Vietnam War. The Rhee forces, mostly made up of Koreans collaborating with their former Japanese occupiers, were also merciless in their killing of fellow Korean civilians in both southern and northern areas of Korea.

www.brianwillson.com...

June 26 - 11 a.m., Seoul Radio says that the "Fierce Tiger" unit (Maengho Dae) of the 17th Regiment has liberated Haeju City on the Onjin Peninsula. It goes on to say that S Korean soldiers have wiped out thousands of N Korean soldiers. Maengho Dae is led by Col. Kim Chong Won, formerly a sergeant in the Japanese Imperial Army, who fled N Korea in 1945. The 17th Regiment and the ROKA 1st Division are made of Japanese collaborators who fled the North. These units are commanded by two brothers (formerly wi th the Japanese Imperial Army) - Paek In Yop and Paek Sung Yop, respectively.

www.kimsoft.com...

Guiding Hand. The South Korean army made a valiant effort to overcome its initial confusion. Within 24 hours after the invasion's start, the Southerners had succeeded in halting temporarily the most dangerous Northern drive, even managed to counterattack across the border and captured the Northern town of Haeju.

www.time.com...

I think it's pretty clear who attacked around June 25 1950 and equally clear that it was not really very important and that the war/revolution was going to take place in "south Korea' at some point in the near future.

You never provided anything which says the CIA accused the SOuth of attacking the NOrth.

And that is not the only thing i said and certainly not the most important.

Stellar

[edit on 8-2-2007 by StellarX]

About the red Mercury issue...

Others, including Sam Cohen, the inventor of the neutron bomb, disagree, and Barnaby says

there is evidence that the Soviets churned out vast quantities of mercury antimony oxide, the intermediate - and equally elusive - compound from which red mercury is supposedly produced by placing it inside a nuclear reactor. "There's no doubt that they made a large amount of that stuff. I've
talked to chemists who have analysed it in East Germany," he says. "But what they did with it is a mystery."

Some say the intermediate compound can multiply the yield of explosions and that it was used inside conventional Soviet nuclear weapons or as a rocket fuel additive. Others say the compound was irradiated in the core of nuclear reactors to produce pure red mercury, capable of exploding with
enough heat and pressure to act as a trigger inside a briefcase-sized fusion bomb.

The International Atomic Energy Authority in Vienna takes a different view. "Red mercury doesn't exist," a spokesman says. "The whole thing is a bunch of malarkey."

www.guardian.co.uk...

That it is a ballotechnic mercury compound which just happens to be red in colour. Ballotechnics are substances which react very energetically when subjected to shock compression at high pressure. They include mercury antimony oxide which, according to some reports, is a cherry red semi-liquid produced in Russian nuclear reactors. This theory contends that it is so explosive that a fusion reaction - a nuclear explosion - can be triggered even without fissionable material such as uranium.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Samuel Cohen, the "father of the neutron bomb", has been claiming for some time that red mercury is a powerful explosive-like chemical known as a ballotechnic[5]. The energy released during its reaction is enough to directly compress the secondary without the need for a fission primary. He claims that he has learned that the Soviet scientists perfected the use of red mercury and used it to produce a number of softball-sized "pure fusion" bombs, which he claims were made in large numbers.

He goes on to claim that the reason this is not more widely known is that elements within the US power structure are deliberately keeping it "under wraps" due to the scary implications such a weapon would have on nuclear proliferation. Since a red mercury bomb would require no fissile material, it would seemingly be impossible to protect against its widespread proliferation given current arms control methodologies. Instead of trying to do so, they simply claim it doesn't exist, while acknowledging its existence privately.

Cohen's claims appears to be difficult to support scientifically. The amount of energy released by the fission primary is thousands of times greater than that released by conventional explosives, and it appears that the "red mercury" approach would be orders of magnitude smaller than required. Furthermore, ballotechnic materials are those that do not explode, so it is difficult to understand how their energy could be used to produce compression at all.

en.wikipedia.org...

chemistry.about.com...

Russian Atomic Energy Minister Viktor Mikhailov once spoke "of a new kind of bomb that could devastate 'foreign territory' while carrying no risk of retaliation... (and also) described the existence of 'little bombs' that 'could appear by the year 2000'." Sounds like they have appeared! Bali might be one. Sounds like the U.S. got caught with its pants down. Why else the hard-line push against Iraq and the claim that no matter what the 12,000 pages of documents say – the U.S. makes claim that there is evidence that proves Iraq has WMD's?

Could it be that Iraq has not yet finished the 2-megaton red mercury fusion bombs that will be smuggled in across our southern border with Mexico and used to target our cities; and that is why we are so desperately seeking Saddam's elimination, or are we trying to prevent the construction of additional bombs? Is Bali evidence that red mercury micro nukes are in existence and being used by al Qaeda or other terrorists? Have you watched the movie, The Sum of All Fears? You should, and remember, the book used Islamic terrorists as the bad guys.

Or perhaps there are more sinister forces involved in Bali and Iraq. Why is the U.S. reportedly editing 8,000 pages of the 12,000 pages submitted by Iraq? What is team Bush fearful of – the truth?

www.prisonplanet.com...

Couple that with Stanislav Lunev's ( Highest ranking KGB defector ) testimony before the US congress ( about mini/micro ) nuclear devices secreted away in most major US cities and strategic targets and you will be left wondering if red mercury is in fact just a fantasy story.

Stellar

Originally posted by rogue1
LOL, the Polish pilots didn't change the tide of war at all.

Probably not...

I think you are deluding yourself, especially since the Poles got their ass kicked in 1939.

Who did not?

There were far more than just Poles flying, the Brits had pilots frm all ove rthe Commonwealth, Australia, Canada, South Africa etc.

Yeah but the Poles were the largest foreign grouping and they were VERY good...

THe Poles made up but one small percentage.

Including the Poles that served in the RAF itself they constituted about 6% of it's pilots which is no small number in my opinion.

Of ciurse what really kept teh NAzi's out of England was teh RN.

The RN could not, IMO, have prevented a successfully invasion if the RAF could be forced to fall back to central and northern Britain.

Also Hitler " didn't change his mind and attack Russia ", that had always been his plan. Britain was but a side show.

Not a sideshow but a country he realised ( or did not want to ) he could not knock out as things were. Having defeated Russia he knew a British invasion would never be possible again and that he could easily move to the ME and thus starve Britain from the vital materials it's colonies provided.

INteresting their was only one Polish Ace, hardly outstanding.

Polish contribution

On 11 June 1940, the Polish Government in Exile signed an agreement with the British Government to form a Polish Army in Britain and a Polish Air Forces in Great Britain. The first two (of an eventual ten) Polish fighter squadrons went into action in August 1940. Four Polish squadrons took part in the battle (300 and 301 Bomber Squadrons; 302 and 303 Fighter Squadrons) with 89 Polish pilots. Together with more than 50 Poles fighting in British squadrons 147 Polish pilots defended the British sky. 30 were killed in the battle.

Polish pilots were among the most experienced in the battle, many having vast pre-war flying experience and had already fought in the Polish September Campaign in Poland and the Battle of France. One must also point out the high level of pilot training in the pre-war Poland. 303 Squadron named after the Polish hero General Tadeusz Kosciuszko, achieved the highest number of kills (126) of all the fighter squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain, even though he only joined the combat on August 30. The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. To put things in perspective, the top 30 scoring Allied aces shot down 376 aircraft, i.e. 1% of pilots were responsible for 13.5% of the total. Pilot Officer Eric Lock of 41 Squadron was the top claimant with 21 (1st July-1st November 1940.) S/L W. Urbanowicz of 303 Sqn was top Polish scorer with 13 claims. Tony Glowacki was famous at the time as the only RAF pilot in the Battle to Britain to shoot down five German planes in one day, which he achieved on August 24.

Despite all of Poland's contributions to Britain, neither Poland nor Polish pilots were recognised for their efforts after WWII came to an end. The Allies were too intimidated by Stalin to recognise Polish efforts. Polish pilots were not even allowed to march in the victory parade in London after WWII ended.

en.wikipedia.org...

As far as i can tell they were some of , or the best ( they tended to win the shooting competitions as i recall) pilots in the RAF but obviously they only contributed if widely out of proportion to their numbers.

Originally posted by rogue1
It was quite obvious in my reply that I was referring to your qute about the BAttle of Britain and yes there was only one ace. I suggest you learn how to count

Stop telling others to study the topic when you have not done so yourself.

Besides in WW2, out of all teh countries with aces, Poland must rank somewhere near the bottom, so big deal.

What standards are we employing here? If you have taken into account how many Poles were flying for various air forces, their plane types, who they were fighting against under what conditions i think you will find the Poles to be some of the best in the air...

They hardly influenced the war at all, actually I'd say that if they weren't there, it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference.

Based on your general ignorance that conclusions is hardly surprising if very probably completely wrong.

I count about 50 Polish aces and about 90 for the UK meaning they damn well 'contributed'

en.wikipedia.org...

www.acesofww2.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Considering that their country was occupied from right about the start of the war one can but marvel at the high levels of skill they must have acquired before the war even started as was evident by their combat record in Europe. Go back and study what kind of a fight Poland really put up before surrendering. When compared to how France, Britain and allies fought you might begin to understand just how well they fared considering their situation.

Stellar

[edit on 8-2-2007 by StellarX]