Dragons reality?

Dragons in the Bible

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

Compare this to
Ezekiel

Weren't the dragons the ships in which the Gods flew?

When Enoch went to heaven he saw giant reptiles flying around there. Jesus followed the books of enoch, so reptiles in heaven didn't phase him at all.

My minister says the dragon in the bible is the devil. I don't mind it being the devil, it makes things scarier.


I hope dragons are real too.

Hehe. The section you posted is about the Nile crocodile if I'm not mistaken. I'm not at home for the moment so please be a little patient. But as far as I know this is about the crocodile that lives in the Nile. Compare with the other versions, and also check for the original Hebrew.....

About dragons. Yes they were real once. One of the greatest is called Tyrannosaurus Rex. Scientists have found out that it was suffering from depressions. The Nile croc lived at the time, though it has been upgraded a little, but it's still a dragon.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 18-11-2003 by mikromarius]

Ezekiel Chapter 1 does make for very interesting reading for those who havent read it. probably not appropriate for this newsgroup but does through up some interesting points. Religous doctrine aside and reading it for what it says. a brief sumary from the king james bible

verse (4) a great cloud comes from the north and a fire INfolding itself and a brightness was upon it. (5). out of the mist came the likeness of 4 humanoid creatures joined wingtip to wingtip each with (6)4 faces and four wings. (7) there feet were straight and they sparkled the colour of brass.

just wondered how primitive man would describe a dragon or indeed a a landing space vehicle..

just a though

Aztec:

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

Weird Nile crocodile you have

Originally posted by LeenBekkemaa
Aztec:

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

Weird Nile crocodile you have

Israel is testing out their newest strategic sub just outside my hometown. It was made in Germany and it's tested here. Guess it's name...... I don't like it at all, but I understand that in the world that is, the dragon still has a mission, but soon when the new Day comes, his wisdom will be chained with the chain of Orion for 1000 years. Who can brake the chains of Orion? There are two sea monsters mentioned in the Tannakh that God destroyed during the Creation we live in: Leviathan and Rahab. Rahab is used as an allegory for Egypt, and it was a prostitute called Rahab that hid the Israeli spies when they entered the Land..... Who are you, oh mighty mountain? When Serubabel carries forth the cap stone, it will become plain..... God I love these riddles!

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I do not believe dragons ever existed. A creature with an arsenal as great as that of a mythical dragon would have easily climbed the food chain, and would be much more evident today. There is no possible way that a creature that can breath fire would not have left evolutionary traces. I am also curious as to how this mutation of fire breathing would come about. It could not simply be a one generational thing, it would take an extremely long time for this to happen, and it would be extremely unlikely. I have a hard time believing that these things ever existed. But, like always, never say never, show me proof and I will believe.

Reality is whatever interpretive implication self accepts and understands, thus making them capable of 'sharing' by means of intercommunication, said material with another. Any word in your bio-linguistic typeset, (the language you speak and hear) that you recognize, is thus (in the mind or not).....real.

Wow Lucifer,

What point does your post prove? None! It is apparent from your vocabulary that you are intelligent and clearly grasped the question's true meaning, however decided to go on an intellectual tangent despite there being no provocation for your ramblings. However there is always the chance that you simple did not get the question, if this is the case I will explain it. This question does not pertain to personal interpretations it is about the actual existence of these creatures. I do not mind people posting in the manner you have when their post has a point.

Originally posted by ID
There is no possible way that a creature that can breath fire would not have left evolutionary traces.

Noone believes dragons actually breathed fire. However the Egyptian creator god Hu Hu was quite similar to YHWH, he created by breathing. And Hu Hu created the stars, and the Sun was his last creation. Hu Hu created the children of fire you can say, and the Book of the Dead may be an elaboration over the first Creational Day: "In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth and the Earth was empty and void, and darkness was uppon the deep of the ocean. But the Spirit of God hovered above the water. Then God said "Let there be Light!" and Light came."

The Dragon is one of the constellations on the Northern hemisphere. It is situated with it's mouth pointing at Hercules which can indeed look like a pregnant woman like the one mentioned in Revelation as a great sign in Heaven. Within he stumac is a highly unstable star. Above "her" head is the constellation of the "Serpent Bearer" consisting of 12 stars. On both sides of the "Serpent Bearer" you can see the Serpent itself. It is really two constellations, for it is divided into the Serpent's Head and the Serpent's Tail. Just beside the Serpent's Tail, you find the Eagle. And above that if you follow the milky way, you find the Swan or the great Cross. If you then follow the cross along the "river" of the Milky Way to the other side of the horizon, you find Orion, a constellation not unlike Hercules or the "Pregnant Woman", but without the big stumac. However, Orion's bellybutton is the Orion nebul� where new stars are born, so it could be the other way around too.

The dragon Leviathan was a monster who lived in the Nile. Rahab, another dragon mentioned in the Bible, was a metaphor of Egypt itself. When Ra travelled through the unseen every night he was guarded against the serpent Apep by his saints. The king cobra was the main symbol of Egyptian power. The Ankh cross or the Egyptian cross was called the Key of the Nile, and was originally a physical key held by the king of Egypt who claimed descendance from Ra and Osiris, and this key gave him the power to open the gates of a system of dams and flood the Nile once a year bringing prosperity and fertility to the land along the Nile which was exceptionally green and fertile back then because of this. Since the pharao had this power he was looked up to as a god by his people.

Hope this was of some help....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I would say that they did exsist at some time. Large reptiles (not dinos, difrent branch of the family tree) have exsisted and largeish ones still do. They also have, in the past, learned to "fly", Peridactels were fling reptiles. (Ok, they glided on wind curents, but you get the idea). Reptiles also make good use of venom (modified siliva) in many snake and some lizard groupes. At least one snake and maby as many as three have learned to "spit" there venom. I've never had this done to me not realy likeing snakes and not living in the right area, but I understand if it gets in your eyes it 'burns'. It's not a far jump to a venom that just burns your skin if it gets on you. If we add all this together, we can get a nasty, fling (gliding), 'fire breathing' (venom spitting), animal. I have no prof to say that this realy happened, I'm just offering, useing things we know happened, a way that they could have happened.

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by ID
There is no possible way that a creature that can breath fire would not have left evolutionary traces.

Noone believes dragons actually breathed fire. However the Egyptian creator god Hu Hu was quite similar to YHWH, he created by breathing. And Hu Hu created the stars, and the Sun was his last creation. Hu Hu created the children of fire you can say, and the Book of the Dead may be an elaboration over the first Creational Day: "In the beginning God created Heaven and Earth and the Earth was empty and void, and darkness was uppon the deep of the ocean. But the Spirit of God hovered above the water. Then God said "Let there be Light!" and Light came."

The Dragon is one of the constellations on the Northern hemisphere. It is situated with it's mouth pointing at Hercules which can indeed look like a pregnant woman like the one mentioned in Revelation as a great sign in Heaven. Within he stumac is a highly unstable star. Above "her" head is the constellation of the "Serpent Bearer" consisting of 12 stars. On both sides of the "Serpent Bearer" you can see the Serpent itself. It is really two constellations, for it is divided into the Serpent's Head and the Serpent's Tail. Just beside the Serpent's Tail, you find the Eagle. And above that if you follow the milky way, you find the Swan or the great Cross. If you then follow the cross along the "river" of the Milky Way to the other side of the horizon, you find Orion, a constellation not unlike Hercules or the "Pregnant Woman", but without the big stumac. However, Orion's bellybutton is the Orion nebul� where new stars are born, so it could be the other way around too.

The dragon Leviathan was a monster who lived in the Nile. Rahab, another dragon mentioned in the Bible, was a metaphor of Egypt itself. When Ra travelled through the unseen every night he was guarded against the serpent Apep by his saints. The king cobra was the main symbol of Egyptian power. The Ankh cross or the Egyptian cross was called the Key of the Nile, and was originally a physical key held by the king of Egypt who claimed descendance from Ra and Osiris, and this key gave him the power to open the gates of a system of dams and flood the Nile once a year bringing prosperity and fertility to the land along the Nile which was exceptionally green and fertile back then because of this. Since the pharao had this power he was looked up to as a god by his people.

Hope this was of some help....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

i believe they existed. breathed fire. etc. perhaps not actually FIRE in the sense of flame, but in the sense of hot gasses, hot enough to wound or kill, perhaps even spark blazes. there is a beetle which does exist that under provocation can shoot boiling water and hot gasses.

www.aboundingjoy.com...

the bombadier beetle.

that little beetle is also a quite potent argument against evoloution.

And. We also have the Komodo Varan or the Komodo Dragon, whose mouth is so full of bacteria that if you are bitten it's not venom that kills you but it's terrible mouth hygiene. I don't know if you can be killed by it's breath, but it's spit can indeed kill you.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

"His breath sets coals ablaze"

Coals. Isn't coal carbon? Aren't we all carbon based? Could this mean that it's breath alone can cause infection and inflammation?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Your all making good cases for their existence but answer me this, why would an animal with the ability to breath fire (poison, venom, hot gas whatever) the ability to fly, and an over all size greater then most creatures today die out? There is no way that a creature this physically dominating could ever fall from the top stop in evolution. And before someone points out what happened to the dinosaurs let me remind you that these things were said to be seen in the time of ancient China and in Europe. If these marvels of evolution did at one time exist then why is there not a trace of them today, one would think that a creature with such advantages would be able to prosper and reproduce. Therefor there should have been a very large number of dragons.

I am not saying that there have never been very large snake like lizards or that there have never been winged reptiles, I am simply saying that a giant creature that can breath fire and fly would have left a bigger mark on our earth.

Also mikromarius, I do not see how your "Egypt post" presents an argument for the existence of Dragons. Simply because there is a constellation and they are mentioned in several ancient societies mythology does not prove that they existed.

"There is no possible way that a creature that can breath fire would not have left
evolutionary traces."

It is believed by many that evolution is not a steadily flowing process, there are periods of little activity and periods of tremendous advancement. Many theorize that at times strange, short lived evolutionary links are created. If you believe the dragon to be one of these then it would seem likely that some of it's genetic information would have been passed down. Also this brings up my earlier point of; why would they die out?

Sorry, one last thing. I apologize if this seems tacked on but I just saw your last post mikromarius, which addresses the ability to ignite carbon based life forms. If dragons are a part of our evolution wouldn't they too be carbon based? This would therefor make their ability to breath fire a suicidal practice scorching the beast from the inside out.

evoloution is flawed, if you would have checked my link you could see that the bombadier beetle throws the theory out the window quit easily.

A good question. Other therys not withstanding, I would say the most likely culpret would be the enviroment. As a top preadetor there could not have been very many. I agree that dinos are a poor example as they died out during a mass extintion, howerver this happens quiet alot. A good exaple would be North America. We once had sabor tooth cats, camels, mastidons, sloths, rhinos, and horses. They all died out. No metior, just an enviromental change. (the horses we have now were brought over from Europ, they went around the world) One of the major points of evolution is that things die out, and a good run for any species is I think around 5,000 years. Some animals live much longer (oposum, crocs, ect.) but in the end everthing will go, even us. This dosen't mean we will die out and leave no decendents, but some day Homo sapion will die out. Back to the point. If they were around for the last big extiction then they most likely didn't survive it. It happens. Meglodon, Salt water crocs, and the giant monitor lizards in Alstralia all were top preadetors, but in the end they died out (other threads on this board not withstanding) Some of the things that could have taken them are; Lack of food: Being on top just means you have father to fall. Disseas; if you don't have many as a top preaditor would not, loseing a few can drop you below a breading population. Climat; most (not all) places that they have legens of dragons would have been hit hard buy the ice age, even the small one in the middle ages would be bad news for a cold blooded big animal. I'm sure others can come up with other things, thats just a starter.

Originally posted by mikromarius
The dragon Leviathan was a monster who lived in the Nile. Rahab, another dragon mentioned in the Bible, was a metaphor of Egypt itself. When Ra travelled through the unseen every night he was guarded against the serpent Apep by his saints. The king cobra was the main symbol of Egyptian power. The Ankh cross or the Egyptian cross was called the Key of the Nile, and was originally a physical key held by the king of Egypt who claimed descendance from Ra and Osiris, and this key gave him the power to open the gates of a system of dams and flood the Nile once a year bringing prosperity and fertility to the land along the Nile which was exceptionally green and fertile back then because of this. Since the pharao had this power he was looked up to as a god by his people.

Hope this was of some help....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Saying that things in the Bible are metaphors is convenient for both sides.
One can say a dragon is a metaphor for the devil or egypt, then they would also have to consider the possibility that god is a metaphor for strange being with vast knowlege that forced primitive man to worship them as a way to enslave the human race.