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Did Jesus Exist -- The Probing Mind

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posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
It ain't the same. Did Muhammad raise from the dead and ascend to "allah"? Was Muhammad before Abraham? Nup.


But that's got absolutely nothing to do with what we were focusing on. You made a great fuss about how these people died because they were christians and refused to deny their faith, that they were special and this adds to the validity of the story. Muslims did the same, therefore these people were no more special than muslims.

All you are doing is attempting to separate the faiths. Yeah, christians have a different belief system than muslims. Neither are more valid than the other. Christianity = islam in essence but not detail.




As far as Genesis is concerned. It happened exactly as it is written. You will see. When exactly? I don't know, but you'll see. All will.


OK, fair enough, so I guess you claim 100% inerrancy of the bible?

So lets go back to what you were saying before. Tell me about mustard seeds, apparently the least/smallest of all seeds that grows to become a tree big enough for birds to live in?

[edit on 22-1-2007 by melatonin]




posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Tell me about mustard seeds, apparently the least/smallest of all seeds that grows to become a tree big enough for birds to live in?


Why must I tell you about mustard seed? Read what the creator said about mustard seeds. There's much to learn there. You might stumble across something greater along the way.

If one relies on man for info, he'll not only be let down at some point, but may also end up believing lies.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
If one relies on man for info, he'll not only be let down at some point, but may also end up believing lies.


OK, fair enough, but I'll read botanical books to learn about mustard plants.

I would rely on the bible for info about what was meant to have happened but I'm having trouble with when Jesus was born. It seems it was either in the days of Herod (before 4 BC; Matthew 2:1) or while Quirinius was in charge of Syria (after 6 AD). Which was it?

Also we have some issues with cocks and crowing, did they crow once or twice, before or after, one denial or three denials?

They can't all be correct, right? Or is there some interpretation issue going on?

Seems your god is quite incoherent at times



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Seems your god is quite incoherent at times


Take it up with him. He's not just air you know. Every hair on your . is numbered. If he's got that much figured out, I'm pretty sure you can speak with him and he'll hear you.

As for the date. Does it matter where you start or where you finish? If it mattered where I started, I'd definitely be screwed.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
Take it up with him. He's not just air you know. Every hair on your . is numbered. If he's got that much figured out, I'm pretty sure you can speak with him and he'll hear you.

As for the date. Does it matter where you start or where you finish? If it mattered where I started, I'd definitely be screwed.


Ahhh, OK, just have faith, eh?

I'd rather not leave my brain at the church door. I thought Gene Scott said I didn't have to?

Oh well, nevermind...



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Ahhh, OK, just have faith, eh?


Did I say anything about faith? Negative.

It doesn't matter what you believe, he is still there, hearing and recording every single thought of yours. Recording every single action of yours. Generously giving you every breath you take, giving you ample time to acknowledge him.

Whether you have faith or not, doesn't cut him on and off like a light switch. He's there.

If you want truth and nothing but the truth. Ask him.

Don't get impatient. He's been putting up with our evil for thousands of years because it isn't his will that any perish. His timing may be a little different than yours. A generation to us is an hour or two to him. Enoch didn't refer to him as the Ancient of Days, just to sound good.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
Did I say anything about faith? Negative.


No, but if the bible is 100% inerrant truth from a perfect creator god, then we would expect some standard of internal consistency, a bit of coherency, this is some supernatural magical god, not a few sheep-herders writing a book.

It seems your god might be a bit of Loki-type character. He places all this evidence showing his words to be wrong, he gives us words that are quite contradictory, and he expects people he supposedly gave rational minds to to just believe and have faith.

I should actually go and read the Qur'an. They had martyrs as well, they must really believe, maybe their book is the true word of this perfect benevolent supercreator...



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
I should actually go and read the Qur'an.


Gotta start somewhere. If you'd ask him he'll show you the truth in everything. I can't for the life of me see how one can defy the one who gives them their breath.

Oh what patience he has.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep

Originally posted by melatonin
I should actually go and read the Qur'an.


Gotta start somewhere. If you'd ask him he'll show you the truth in everything. I can't for the life of me see how one can defy the one who gives them their breath.

Oh what patience he has.


Well, I'm not so patient. I have so much to read, I have manuscripts to write and ignorance to lift in the world of science. But I had a quick perusal of the Qur'an.

They still hold to Genesis as being 100% correct, however, we have clear evidence it is wrong, whales did not appear before insects and reptiles, and flowering plants did not appear before animals. It was the other way around. Also, it seems allah can't decide how long a day is to himself, it's either 1000 or 50,000 years.

These creators seem to get easily confused. If I had to grade them, they'd be verging on an E and I'm quite a generous grader.

Anyway, I was looking around for the truth and I found this. That seems to have a kernal of truth, well, it's closer than other claims of truth in this faith business.

cheers.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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Here's another...


August 2006, Libreville, Gabon) In August, a congregation's 35-year old pastor insisted one could literally walk on water, if one only had enough faith. Big and bold was his speech. He extolled the heavenly power possessed by a faithful man with such force that he may well have convinced himself. Whether or not he believed in his heart, his sermons left room for only shame should he leave his own faith untested. Thus, the pastor set out to walk across a major estuary, the path of a 20-minute ferry ride. But the man could not swim.

Lacking the miraculous powers of David Copperfield, let alone holy Jesus Christ, this ill-fated cleric found only a Darwin Award at the end of his final path.


Stupid or not, you decide...

[edit on 22-1-2007 by melatonin]


Melatonin, go and watch the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know"

Quantum physics is proving that our thoughts affect everything, although this idea is nothing new, as Jesus told us the exact same thing 2000 years ago.

If you could have faith the size of a mustard seed, that is all that is required.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
Melatonin, go and watch the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know"


well, i can't speak for mel, but i saw it



Quantum physics is proving that our thoughts affect everything, although this idea is nothing new, as Jesus told us the exact same thing 2000 years ago.


actually, quantum physics hasn't really provided us with anything workable on a scale higher than the sub-nano.........

quantum physics = applications on the super small scale
reg physics = our scale
astrophysics = superscale



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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These must all be lies too?

Link1
Link2
Link3

All this must be a lie also? Boy them minds play crazy tricks don't they.


Google Video Link



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
Melatonin, go and watch the movie "What The Bleep Do We Know"

Quantum physics is proving that our thoughts affect everything, although this idea is nothing new, as Jesus told us the exact same thing 2000 years ago.

If you could have faith the size of a mustard seed, that is all that is required.


No, it isn't, honestly.

The film is mostly pseudoscience not based in any actual science. It is a load Deepak Chopra style woo. What we have is people taking something we don't completely understand (Quantum theory) and applying it to something we don't completely understand (consciousness), as they are both not completely understood, there must be links - piffle.

The film can't even get the percentage of water in humans right and Emoto's water crystal stuff is pseudoscience at its best [i.e. worst], as usual he's not a qualified scientist and doesn't peer review his stuff in science journals (like many creationist 'Dr's).

You really need to be a bit more discerning when you watch telly and films, the proper science doesn't get done on telly, it's in journals. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it's true.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
These must all be lies too?

Link1
Link2
Link3

Just one problem:-

Just how does anyone alive know what the supposed jesus looked like?????? Therefore stating that you have a dream/vision of jesus is wrong. Just because they have the notion or idea that the dream entity is jesus DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!


So yes they are all LIES.

Havent you ever seen the two scottish magicians doing all the miracles of the bible? (2 shows they did)


G



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
These must all be lies too?


Were the heaven's gate cult people lying or just badly mistaken?

I think that many of these people believe exactly what they say they do.


Boy them minds play crazy tricks don't they.


Aye, the mind does. We have examples of all kinds of weird phenomena due to the mind.

Ramachandran's 'phantom's in the brain' is well worth a read in this regard (he is actually a proper scientist, not some Chopra-style wooist).



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Were the heaven's gate cult people lying or just badly mistaken?


Anyone in their right mind wouldn't have to ask such a question.



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by tylersch

Originally posted by kokoro

Originally posted by tylersch
Please show evidence these other gods existed



Umm... thats exactly my point, they didnt, they are all myths.






Can you please post links to show where you are getting your information, and how we know these myths to this day.



No one has answered me.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by tylersch]



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by WiseSheep
Anyone in their right mind wouldn't have to ask such a question.


OK, so you know why you shouldn't have to ask whether I think those people you supplied links for need to have been lying.

They can just have been mistaken, just like the heavens gate people - they could have experienced exactly what they say they have and believe exactly what they say they do.

Often beliefs have no foundation in the real-world.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by tylersch No one has answered me.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by tylersch]


My apologies tylersch, i did not see your post. Here is where I got the external source info I quoted.

Jesus Mythos


As for the pagan G-d myths for Krishna and Buddah, ect.. these are well known pagan myths and you can google anyone of them and find thier respective stories.



posted on Jan, 23 2007 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by kokoro

Originally posted by tylersch No one has answered me.

[edit on 23-1-2007 by tylersch]


My apologies tylersch, i did not see your post. Here is where I got the external source info I quoted.

Jesus Mythos


As for the pagan G-d myths for Krishna and Buddah, ect.. these are well known pagan myths and you can google anyone of them and find thier respective stories.


Why am I not surprised you provide a link to a Jewish website.

This site in no way answers my question.

The site says this


Roughly speaking the ancients' gods:

* Were born on or very near our Christmas Day
* Were born of a Virgin-Mother
* Were born in a Cave or Underground Chamber
* Led a life of toil for Mankind
* Were called by the names of Light-bringer, Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer
* Were however vanquished by the Powers of Darkness
* And descended into Hell or the Underworld
* Rose again from the dead, and became the pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world
* Founded Communions of Saints, and Churches into which disciples were received by Baptism
* Were commemorated by Eucharistic meals

Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki; the Savior Dionysus was born of the virgin Semele. Buddha too was born of a virgin, as were the Egyptian Horus and Osiris. The old Teutonic goddess Hertha was a virgin impregnated by the heavenly Spirit and bore a son. Scandinavian Frigga was impregnated by the All-Father Odin and bore Balder, the healer and savior of mankind.

Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God." With twelve disciples he traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men. He was buried in a tomb from which he rose again from the dead -- an event celebrated yearly with much rejoicing. His followers kept the Sabbath holy, holding sacramental feasts in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull.

The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as "Sunday." The halo of light which is usually shown surrounding the face of Jesus and Christian saints, is another concept taken from the sun god.


What I am asking is.. where did THEY get this information?
They site NO external links or references.

I'm guessing maybe they got the info from another anti-jesus website?
I won't come to that conclusion for now.

But my question still stands.

btw, this site seems to make many unprovable claims of a Mysterious "Q Gospel" That everyone copied off of.



[edit on 23-1-2007 by tylersch]

[edit on 23-1-2007 by tylersch]




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