Not Christian? You should still follow the New Testament

BH, I read the site you keep championing the last time you quoted from them. Personally I don't exactly trust their translation because they are a pro-homosexual organization translating the text. It's like having the tobacco industry do a study on their products to see if they cause cancer. It's in their interest to find that it's perfectly safe.

I don't speak the languages the bible was originally written in so I will follow the thousands upon thousands of translations that say what the bible actually says.

I mean you can find support for ANYTHING on the Internet. Just because you do from one group doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
God is love

That's a good one though I'm looking for verses that anyone can follow, even atheist that don't believe in God.

Thanks BH.

Originally posted by kinglizard
I don't speak the languages the bible was originally written in

There are many who speak of the mistranslations of the bible, not just "pro-homosexual" ones.

It should be noted that the phrase "...man... as with a woman" usual in most English translations is not present in the Greek. It simply does not do justice to the contrastive pairs involved. In Greek, these are: arsEn (male) vs. thElus (female) and anEr (man/husband) vs. gunE (woman/wife). A transliteration might be "and next male do not lie with in beds of woman".
Source

There is a lot of hype about the Biblical condemnations of Homosexuality. There are six quotations taken from the Bible that can be used against Homosexuality, and five of them are down to translation or biased errors. Jesus Christ always promoted Love over Hate and in this respect he overrode the Old Testament. In all the texts we have Jesus Christ is never quoted or implied to have spoken about sexualities.

However it is a common view that the Bible condemns Homosexuality because of the way that some Christian denominations appear to be overly homophobic. The firing of gay members normally attracts press attention.

It is in Leviticus that the text can be found that can be translated as being anti-gay, but the correctness of the translations used is being questioned.
Source

But that's ok. You go ahead and stick with what feels comfortable to you.

As regards "God is Love" just consider if that was meant literally. LITERALLY. As in God = Love. What if Love is actually what God is... Atheists believe in love, don't they?

That's why I brought up that particular verse. Because in both of the verses where it appears:

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 - And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

equate God to Love.

But if it doesn't fit the predetermined idea you have for inspirational verses in your thread, I guess you can just ignore it. For those who think outside the box (like many of us non-Christians do) it might be inspirational. Even to atheists.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are many who speak of the mistranslations of the bible, not just "pro-homosexual" ones.

Yes, I have no doubt you could find a couple more internet sites that say exactly what you wish to believe.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But that's ok. You go ahead and stick with what feels comfortable to you.

I will not stick with what is comfortable, I will stick with Gods word as written in the Bible.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
As regards "God is Love" just consider if that was meant literally. LITERALLY. As in God = Love. What if Love is actually what God is...

Yes, I agree, God is defiantly Love. I felt that during my NDE and two encounters. On my walking encounter he filled me up with a feeling of love. It felt like a bubble of love was growing from the center of my body, ever expanding it felt like it reached out through house walls and beyond. It was awesome.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Atheists believe in love, don't they?

I’m sure they do…I wish that they could see that it was God like you and I.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But if it doesn't fit the predetermined idea you have for inspirational verses in your thread, I guess you can just ignore it. For those who think outside the box (like many of us non-Christians do) it might be inspirational. Even to atheists.

You cannot fit the word of god (Bible) in a “box”…it is the box and the space that is inside and surrounding the “box”.

I believe the thousands upon thousands if not millions upon millions of theological scholars that have translated the bible throughout the last 2000 years, not a couple websites on geocity.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 - And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

equate God to Love.

But if it doesn't fit the predetermined idea you have for inspirational verses in your thread, I guess you can just ignore it.

Oh OK, I see what you are saying, thanks for the verses BH.

kinglizard, excellent post. I would select the Golden Rule found in Matthew 7:12. "Do to others whatever you would have them do to you."

Originally posted by NowAmFound
yes, their status is proclaimed! men are commanded to love their wives. one who is loved holds the greatest of status positions--uneclipsed. funny, woman are told only to submit to their husbands

Submission to men clearly indicates a women's position. 1 corinthians 11 makes the position of the female very clear.

As BH notes, it's all in the interpretation of course.

But I'll leave it at that, as I see this thread is just for the nice messages from the NT.

If God created men to love their wives and created women to submit to their husbands then WE as humans cannot find fault with God or his word. He is the one that created this divine relationship and he should be the one that defines it. We should honor it rather than put modern day spins on his direction.

EDIT: is it possible that the reason so many marriages fail in this modern age is because most don't follow this relationship doctrine?

[edit on 12/18/2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by kinglizard
If God created men to love their wives and created women to submit to their husbands then WE as humans cannot find fault with God or his word. He is the one that created this divine relationship and he should be the one that defines it. We should honor it rather than put modern day spins on his direction.

But this thread was suggesting that non-christians, which will include atheists and agnostics, should still follow the ancient ways of the NT. This includes misogyny and homophobia.

I rather think we are slowly advancing beyond such things, but of course, some want to roll back the enlightenment and the advance of human rights to the dark ages....such is life...

Originally posted by melatonin
But this thread was suggesting that non-christians, which will include atheists and agnostics, should still follow the ancient ways of the NT. This includes misogyny and homophobia.

Yes the bible defines proper relationships.

and yes this thread was intended for the posting of non religious verses from the NT that prove to be sound life guidance to all people regardless of faith...but as you can see has turned into something quite different.


[edit on 12/18/2006 by kinglizard]

This is an interesting thread. All I am going to say is this. Western Society is based on what people have decided the Bibles teaching is. Now we have started to move away away from that train of thought whether or not this is right or wrong is another topic. Regular members will know where I stand on the matter.

IMO the Bible is to open to interpretation and selective quoting to be of any use but if you draw inspiration from the Bible I'm not going to take anything from you. In the interests of this thread I have only posted some of my thoughts on the matter but given that I'm an Atheist I'm sure you would be able to guess what those views are.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by xpert11]

Originally posted by kinglizard
He is the one that created this divine relationship and he should be the one that defines it.

My husband and I created our relationship. And we define it. There is no submission or dominating to be found in it and it's working perfectly.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
My husband and I created our relationship. And we define it. There is no submission or dominating to be found in it and it's working perfectly.

Believe me BH I am really happy that there are couples like you and your husband that can stay together in love these days but would you define your relationship as "the exception" or the "rule", generally speaking?

It's the exception. But I don't believe relationships are falling apart because they're not being properly submissive and dominant according to God's definition of marriage.

People are lazy. They give up too easily. They don't want to work hard for what they have. It's really not related to religion as far as I can see at all.

We could just as well be a very religious couple and we'd still be together. It's not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is our commitment and willingness to do whatever it takes to work through our issues.

I just don't see how you can blame it on how people follow (or don't follow) God's idea of relationships. Many religious couples are falling apart, too.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I just don't see how you can blame it on how people follow (or don't follow) God's idea of relationships. Many religious couples are falling apart, too.

It was just a thought, that's why I posed it as a question rather than a statement. Though the truth of the idea is something that I haven't dismissed yet.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by shihulud
On Topic: There are maybe a few good life guides in the NT but that still doesnt mean that you should follow the NT even if your are not christian. I see no reason to change my lifestyle which BTW has some of the NT life guides in it just because I read part of the bible.
Morals, ethics , love etc is not the soul domain of christianity or any religion

Yes, God gave you the ability to choose.

Eh NO!!! Neither yours nor anyone elses god gave me the ability for anything.

Originally posted by shihulud
You can be a non-theist and still live by the same good values as any religionite.

Did you even read my post?

The ENTIRE point of this thread is to show those that have NO faith that they can still follow the NT's teachings because it's full of good values and direction for EVERYONE regardless of faith!

Yes I read your post and what I'm saying is that you dont need to follow the NT teachings because the values and direction in the NT is NOT the soul domain nor inherent of the NT.
The values in the NT can be and are lived by WITHOUT even reading the NT. The world as a whole does not need the teachings of any religious text or institution to live a moral, ethical and good life.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
Eh NO!!! Neither yours nor anyone elses god gave me the ability for anything.

Yes, “I BELIEVE”, “Christians believe”, that God gave you the ability to believe that. Your belief is not necessary in this case.

Originally posted by shihulud
Yes I read your post and what I'm saying is that you dont need to follow the NT teachings

You are right, you don’t “NEED” to follow the NT, as I stated very clearly in the opening thread (that you say you read) you “SHOULD” follow the NT even if you don’t consider yourself Christian.

Originally posted by shihulud
the values and direction in the NT is NOT the soul domain nor inherent of the NT.

WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU SAYING HERE?

The values are not in the NT’s nature or characteristics. WHAT?

The “soul domain” part I understand but what’s with the “nor inherent of the NT” part?

Dumb it down for me will ya.

Originally posted by shihulud
The values in the NT can be and are lived by WITHOUT even reading the NT.

Yes and you can discover mathematics on your own but most people find that listening to a learned teacher speeds that process up a bit.

This is another good lesson that should be followed by everyone regardless of faith:

John 8:7

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Originally posted by kinglizard

The “soul domain” part I understand but what’s with the “nor inherent of the NT” part?

Dumb it down for me will ya.

I'll take a whack. I believe he meant "sole domain" and no "soul domain" BTW. His argument seems to be that there are no moral teachings in the NT exclusive to the NT. They can be found elsewhere.

Which I believe is accurate, if irrelevant. The point was to find beneficial passages, "words of wisdom" applicable to anyone, Christian believer or not. The fact that universal truths can indeed be found, um...universally, isn't a shock.

I believe the NT can be a great guideline for living, whether or not you are a Christian, or even a theist. The entire sermon on the mount (found in Matthew, chapters 5-7) pretty valuable I'd say. The Golden Rule, passing judgement, the Beatitudes, some good stuff there.

Here's a concise list of the sermons of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by yeahright
The point was to find beneficial passages, "words of wisdom" applicable to anyone, Christian believer or not. The fact that universal truths can indeed be found, um...universally, isn't a shock.[/url].

Exactly and well said....that was my hope for this thread.

Excellent link, thanks for that.