Survival Gripes

by magicmushroom
Its sounds more like how I would survive in the comfort of my own home, the great survival stories dont happen in somone's home.

I don't agree with this premise. When we had that windstorm in western washington and everyone lost power, I was amazed to see how everyone hid out in their homes. Unfortunately some brought barbeques and such in with them. When disaster strikes, most people think of their home first, it's where they feel safe. It's only when supplies start to run low and/or the situation worsens that people will be forced to come out.

Living in a rural area and being well stocked/defended can allow one to survive at ones abode for some time, if not permanently.

I agree totaly with the last comment. If ur already in a pickle why venture out into lord knows what. u could be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Granted some situationsmay force u to leave i just don't think that should always be the imidiate response to every situation.

[edit on 29/12/06 by The_Smokeing_Gun]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar

by magicmushroom
Its sounds more like how I would survive in the comfort of my own home, the great survival stories dont happen in somone's home.

I don't agree with this premise. When we had that windstorm in western washington and everyone lost power, I was amazed to see how everyone hid out in their homes. Unfortunately some brought barbeques and such in with them. When disaster strikes, most people think of their home first, it's where they feel safe. It's only when supplies start to run low and/or the situation worsens that people will be forced to come out.

Living in a rural area and being well stocked/defended can allow one to survive at ones abode for some time, if not permanently.

YOu know..I was astonished when hearing that stuff on the radio. How many people died because they were not prepared for what happened.

I keep several Kerosene heaters around here also Fifteen Gallons of kerosene. I have gas heat but I considered this angle for some time now. Alternate heat if needed.

I just last week decarbonized my kerosene heaters getting them ready for possible use. I did not use them at all last year but I keep them none the less. I have also taught myself how to change the wicks and keep a supply of new wicks on hand. You have to be careful in doing this to get it correct.

You must be prepared to only heat one room under such extreme conditions or create a temporary wall with a tarp or such to conserve Kerosene or fuel. EVeryone sleeps in this area to keep warm. You dont need to be heating a whole house under these extreme situations. Any rooms not in use...close them off.
Watch people or their homes during normal conditions...how many do not have basic diciplines to turn off a light for hours and hours when they are not home. Or to close a door or heater vent off so as to save money or allow the heater to be more effecient in the areas where the people are mostly staying. These are the people who will be screwed when such a condition happens like described in Washington state.

I also keep two of those Coleman white gas camping stoves along with four cans of that fuel. Got them at yard sales and rebuilt them.

I have two generators also..along with provisions to keep gasoline on hand before storms here. I try to keep my vehicles topped off on fuel..never liking to let the tanks go below half way.
There is a old Chevy in my garage..from 1967. These cars had large fuel tanks. I keep this one full for my generators mostly and I have used it as such after a hurricane. I was not running around the next day after a Hurricane hunting for gasoline.

I keep my chain saws on the ready line too. Plenty of 2 cycle oil as I ride my mopeds often. Buy the oil by the gallons.

Mind you now..this does not make me better than other people just different in that I prepared for something like this when most are only preparing for tonights Lakers game on the tube.

Those folks were under those conditions for some time..longer than most. Carefully metering your supplies would be critical....as would not catching something on fire.

Staying home is alright but you must have provisions and diciplines to do so. That buisness in Washington State was bad...very bad. Seems to me this is a cycle they go through every so many years. Bad storms..not necessarily snow and such but high winds and rain too. You would think more people would be prepared for this.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999,


Absolutely, fuel is critical. I keep enough firewood to run all winter 24/7 and rotate stock each spring if I don't use it all, which under normal conditions I never would. Unfortunately, I also live in a flood plain where we get hit hard every ten years or so. I had six feet under my house (which is 12ft off the ground) in the November floods. Having grown somewhat complacent about flooding, I hadn't put the wire fencing around my wood pile at the end of summer like I normally do. Fortunately for me I had 6-8 hours to prepare. So I ran down and threw that fencing around all the pallets of wood best I could and around my deck supports and prayed it wouldn't float away.

Well, it stayed. Came down catywampus, but I was glad to have it. Didn't realize how critical it would be with the windstorm! Kept my house a toasty 75, cooked meals in a flash, and since I have an electric water heater, boiled water for our baths. Hadn't done a bath in years, so used to showers.

Gas is a good one for short term outages, first thing that happened after the storm was gas shortages. By short term, I mean something less than a total wipe out of electrical/government infrastructure by nukes/emp/pandemic. I personally didn't need a generator, most of the stuff in my freezer needed to be thrown out anyway, and my backup is primarily canned and dry goods. The refigerated items just went on the back porch since it was cold out anyway. Of course, in a SIT X, I would use that rotting meat from the freezer in the leg traps I keep, to start trapping out my back door. Living in a rural setting has it's advantages!

Unfortunately this rural setting includes floods. But I have a boat and my house is raised, so I don't mind it. Keeps developers from being able to build around here and keeps the top soil nice for gardening.

Originally posted by orangetom1999


Or to close a door or heater vent off so as to save money or allow the heater to be more effecient in the areas where the people are mostly staying.

orangetom1999 I agree with most of what you said but I feel I have to correct you on one point.

Closing of rooms prevents adequate return air from getting back to the furnace. An open register in a closed rooms is triple trouble: the heated air supply tries to pressurize the room and forces heated air out cracks and leaks, the reduced circulation from the closed door prevents the room from reaching correct temperature and the closed door "starves" the return duct of a percentage of the air it needs to keep the rest of the house comfortable. Closing off too many registers throws any forced-air system out of balance -- if the supply air flow and the return airflow are equal, the system is balanced.

I have one kerosene heater and that thing is the bee's knees. It heats up my whole house in like half an hour.

Good that you folks are thinking. That situation in Washington State was a clear illustration of how many people dont think..past the Lakers game or such.

I forgot to add and I believe most of you already know ..with a kerosene heater to leave a window slightly open so as to get fresh air circulating.

As to forced air system..from a central heating system. My system here is not a forced air heat system. It is a olde floor system. I do fine with it and still close the rooms off which I am not using. If I am going to use one for any length of time I open the door and let some heat in or suppliment it with a small electric heater or even ..Imagine this...dress more warmly. I was a bit surprised to find people who rather than dress more warmly turn up the heat. Even heat they cant really afford while heating rooms they wont be in for hours ..or even days.
It just never made good sense to me to heat areas you wont use for days or even weeks at at time. That is ...unless they have in them water or water pipes. This can get complicated if you have a sizable family. I do not.

IN an adverse condition..with a kerosene or other such heat source this can become critical in metering out your resources if you dont have some basic diciplines here. Same thing applies to electricity from a generator. You dont load up your generator with loads for rooms or utilities that are not absolutely necessary. As I stated ..I was amazed how many people dont think this way ...in good times..they will become a liability in a survival situation.

In re reading your post Angry American I am surmising that you are in the Heating and Airconditioning line of work or have been at one time??

HimWhoHathAnEar..lucky you that you live out in more of a rural area and have access to lots of wood. Yes..Understand about the floods and it being sort of a trade off. Also find it intresting that your home is jacked up so. This has happened around here after Hurricane Isabel some years ago. Many in the lower lying areas have done precisely that ..Jacked up thier homes.

Cracks me up about using the rotted meat in that manner. Yes..it certainly would work.

A bath ..yes...most certainly ..you can make do in a pinch. Surprised me how many people never thought this through either. They are so used to just stepping in the shower and taking care of buisness. I too had an electric water Heater. Was reduced to heating water on my stove and dry cleaning or taking cold showers. I can dry clean in a pinch...olde school.
Imagine this..I had some people staying with me after hurricane Isabel who had no concept of hand washing clothes or even how to use a wooden clothes dryer. No concept of how to do a manual overide.

I am a ham radio operator. I was also able to use one of several batteries I keep in my garage to power up one of my radios. I also learned from olde timers how to fabricate an emergency type antenna. I tossed this over a tree limb with a fishing pole and reeled it up. I was able to get in touch with other hams and find out what gas stations were open for buisness without having to spend hours on the roads or in lines to purchase gasoliine. SAme with other services after the hurricane. No long lines for me. Thank God. AT least not for about 4 days. By then some things began to stabilize. We were without power about 8 days. Good that it was not a winter situation as was the case out west.
Isabel was not a difficult Hurricane on the scale of say New Orleans. It was just a surprise to find out how many people never prepare for anything ..other than tonights game.


I Keep three of these emergency antennas around the house and in my garage...ready to go. They are very small, compact, and effecient.

Great posts guys..thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Good that you folks are thinking. That situation in Washington State was a clear illustration of how many people dont think..past the Lakers game or such.

In re reading your post Angry American I am surmising that you are in the Heating and Airconditioning line of work or have been at one time??

I was for six years. Got out because I was sick of people being stupid they take heat for granted and never think to maintain there furnace. They keep up on the oil in there car and have there car looked at but never think about the furnace intil it's three in the morning and my wife and I are asleep then the stupid phone rings. "WAA My furnace quite because I never took care of it come save me mr. furnace guy." Then they would get mad because I would charge them. After that I owned or managed Quick oil change facility's for several years. Now I program and operate cutting lasers and ime much happier.

I am a ham radio operator. I was also able to use one of several batteries I keep in my garage to power up one of my radios. I also learned from olde timers how to fabricate an emergency type antenna. I tossed this over a tree limb with a fishing pole and reeled it up. I was able to get in touch with other hams and find out what gas stations were open for buisness without having to spend hours on the roads or in lines to purchase gasoliine. SAme with other services after the hurricane. No long lines for me. Thank God. AT least not for about 4 days. By then some things began to stabilize. We were without power about 8 days. Good that it was not a winter situation as was the case out west.
Isabel was not a difficult Hurricane on the scale of say New Orleans. It was just a surprise to find out how many people never prepare for anything ..other than tonights game.


I Keep three of these emergency antennas around the house and in my garage...ready to go. They are very small, compact, and effecient.

Great posts guys..thanks,
Orangetom

Ime not a licensed ham yet but hopefully soon. I do have a President HR2500 10M included in my safe room its been converted to cover 11M C.B. bands aswell receaving only of course. I have several deep cycle batteries in the safe room to run the NBC filter and the other electrial equiptment either directly from 12V or from inverters. Plus a hand crank charger to keep the batteries toped off. ime wondering if my Rig could work off your antanna on 10M I already know 11M is out?

I know precisely what you mean about people not preparing or doing maintenance on their heating systems. I taught myself to change the capilary tubing sensor for my pilot light and also the main regulator valve feeding my floor heater.
I was surprised in my teaching of myself to find out that many people annualy buy batterys for their cars when it is often just dirty terminals which need a good cleaning or they are low on water. This simple maintenance is to difficult for them. People must spend millions and millions across this country yearly on batterys they dont really need. They just dont know or dont know what they dont know. Spring and fall is the time to do alot of that maintenance when neither the AC or the heating is in full usage but most dont do this. It is like for many it is impossible to connect the dots verses get ready for tonights game or American Idol etc etc.

As to your HR 2500...that is a new model to me as I have been out of the loop for those model radios for some time. Obvioiusly new models have arrived on the scene.

I own and keep in my garage a 2 meter rig with a home made antenna and also a President Model HR 2510 which I use on both 10 and 11 meters. I still go back to 11 meters and speak to people I know. I dont like to forget where I came from or get above my raisings as the olde timers say.

In an emergency you will take help and information from where and when ever you can get it.

I keep several short wave radios around the house. The most useful one I own is a Grundig FR 200 sold through Radio Shack. This radio receiver has the short wave bands in AM mode and also regular AM/FM. The intresting thing about this radio is that is operates off 3AA type batteries but also has a small magneto hand crank on the side which charges a set of cordless type telephone batteries inside the unit. It will run about 30 minutes on a good hand cranking session. Mostly of course I run this radio off of the 3AA type batteries. This radio also has a built in light in the front of it though the lite is not very useful in my opinion..my mag light is much better.
Of the AA type batteries I tend to always keep on hand a 40 pack of them. AT least one if not two 40 packs. You need to have your battery stash like this established before hand..because when a bad storm comes the stores are sold out very quickly. Thus my reason for keeping so many on hand. I carry a mag lite with me all the time in my line of work along with a Gerber pocket tool.

I also own a Radio Shack DX 398 on the line in my room...ready to go or just use around the house. It has the AM/FM bands as well as shortwave and included Single Side Band. I enjoy sometimes listening to the Hams in the evenings on this portable rig when working around the house..though I also have a regular Ham rig in my truck and a base station in one room upstairs.
In survival situations keeping these radios dry will be the order of the day.
I also keep around a couple of 2 meter walkie talkies which have a telephone keypad on the front of them for using the repeaters to make telephone patchs. This feature may not be any good in certain emergency situations as many of the repeaters with telephone patchs built in will probably be down and you will be using this radio in simplex mode verses duplex....through a repeater.

Teach yourself to fabricate a type of emergency antenna..which is also very portable. I was learning this from hams and other CB ers even before I got my license. I am very glad I learned this trick. It came in handy. Especially if you have family.

Oh..and yes I agree.....the deep cycle batterys are the way to go if you are not running alot of high amp equipment. I have done the same..I have two of them in my garage...along with a couple of regular car batteries. Before bad weather arrives I automatically begin the maintenance and charging cycles for my batterys with my two battery chargers. It has become a habit to take care of this task while making other preparations. Mostly for hurricanes around here. Making sure the gasoline tanks in my vehicles are full...this needs to be done early ...before the stations run out or shut down. My cans full of gasoline for my generators...etc etc.

Bad weather is the thing I worry about most. Situation X described by many here would be bad...very bad..

Thanks for your post and reply.
Orangetom

Its sounds more like how I would survive in the comfort of my own home, the great survival stories dont happen in somone's home. So is this talk of survival just a big kids game where those with the biggest gun collections etc. win a prize. How would you survive as a Jew in wartime Germany, how would you survive as a black man in 19th Century America, how would you survive as an starving Ethiopian. Real lives, real issues, true survivors.

Just a few years ago they were advocating to be prepared for 3 days. Now, I just read where they said people should be prepared for 12 weeks in case a pandemic should develop. If they say 12 it may be more. This would mean no store to go, no online shopping, just living off of what you have in your home and or if something should happen where you have to leave being prepared to survive. During Katrina the people were carted off to a location with no food and no water. Tempers flared. It was not a pretty picture. I hate to imagine 12 weeks in a Katrina like atmosphere. The warning is clearly there for those who wish to heed it. If you prepare now and think it through using others as a sounding board, I think it will prove beneficial. I am not a gun advocate, but, this site offered alternatives to the typical firearms.



[edit on 15-1-2007 by Siren]

The greatest survival tool you have is the one you pack around inside of your head. Your brain. Use it. Prepare as far ahead of time as you can, especially at home. If you are in the back of beyond, you are of course limited in what you can carry...so think, think, think.

All the firepower in the world ain't going to matter a wit, if you can't hit anything. All the meat in the world ain't going to do you anygood if you can't cook it.

Preparation is all. Learn all you can. Reading books won't hurt either, be sure you practise it though.

With your brain stuffed full of good info. you won't need the latest Acme blastergun. You'll be able to make a nice little quiet snare, and catch that little bunny whose going to much easier to deal with than that bull elk your Acme blastergun just killed.

Think small. Think portable.

amen to that brother.

I thought this thread had died so thank you to all those who have responded, I'm not against gun collections and I know its much easier for Americans to have them but the purpose of this thread was to get people to think outside of the box.

And you are all right , every person/Family should make the effort to store some supplies of any description. Unfortunately in the Western world we a re rather cocooned by the way we live but it is good to here that many do take survival as a serious matter.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
I thought this thread had died so thank you to all those who have responded, I'm not against gun collections and I know its much easier for Americans to have them but the purpose of this thread was to get people to think outside of the box.

And you are all right , every person/Family should make the effort to store some supplies of any description. Unfortunately in the Western world we a re rather cocooned by the way we live but it is good to here that many do take survival as a serious matter.

For some of us particularly on this thread..the Survival Forum...every day is survival. It is just that some are new to this concept and are looking for help. The survivalist mindset is not natural to many. They tend to think there is something wrong with people who think like this.

"Hey...how about that LA Lakers Game..wasnt that great game???" To some people out here the LA Lakers Game is all there is to survival. The Epitome.

THere are those of us to whom every day is survival..this is just another facet of this same survival. THe "I'm ok , your ok " mindset isnt getting it here.

Agree...every person should be thinking from this aspect and preparing for something other than the LA Lakers Game or American Idol...or whatever drivel is coming next to keep us "occupied."
THe word I believe you used appropriately is "cocooned". Well said. Well said!!

Thanks to all for thier posts on this subject.
Keep reading, thinking, and planning,
Orangetom

If I may add something to this, it may be relevant or it might not, but when crap hits the fan it can and will hit hard and fast. And when it happens, people panick. We have no control what may happen next, but if people could just take a breather and evaluate the situation, it would help alot. But the one thing that Ive noticed in disaster situations, the community joins as one to help each other out.

well the other thing is (and getting back to the original topic) do we want alot of people panicking with guns?

Originally posted by The_Smokeing_Gun
well the other thing is (and getting back to the original topic) do we want alot of people panicking with guns?

You mean like the police in New Orleans during Katrina?? Police and other Government "Experts."??

Orangetom

well anyone, police, military, or civilians, durring katrinal there where civilians shooting at the medivac helicopters. How does that help anything?

Ware do we drew the line? Yup ya got some morons out there shooting at the ones who want to help. You also have the ones who say they are there to help shooting at innocent people. How is it fare to disarm everybody, just to keep the morons from being morons. The truth is you cant keep them from being morons. If its not a gun its a knife, or bow or other such weapon. They will find a way period. Should the rest be punished because of that. If my daughter hits someone with a stick I don't punish my son for it by taking away his walking stick. So I ask again ware do you drew the line.

Originally posted by angryamerican
Ware do we drew the line? Yup ya got some morons out there shooting at the ones who want to help. You also have the ones who say they are there to help shooting at innocent people. How is it fare to disarm everybody, just to keep the morons from being morons. The truth is you cant keep them from being morons. If its not a gun its a knife, or bow or other such weapon. They will find a way period. Should the rest be punished because of that. If my daughter hits someone with a stick I don't punish my son for it by taking away his walking stick. So I ask again ware do you drew the line.

AngryAmerican,

THe line is drawn by common sense and Faith. Not emotions. Emotions is a concept which has so badly been catered to by the body politic for votes. People have been conditioned to think emotionally rather than practically or with common sense and Faith. This "preconditioning/brainwashing has become a cheap standard to get a public to vote or think a certain way on certain issues necessary to keep the body politic in office...not for the benefit of the public. Since the body politic also pays or finances public education this line of thinking is also taught in public schools. Understand now??

New Orleans was a textbook example of public education at work....ie...the emotional body politic at work on a publicly educated/ brainwashed/preconditioned people...including the New Orleans police force.

YOu do not see this type of chaos out in rural areas...even in devastating tornados/floods. People band together and work together in very adverse conditions. Did you see this kind of chaos next door in Mississippi??
Throw in a mix of parasites called the media and you have and encourage a totally messed up situation for ratings. Just like the body politic. It quickly degenerated into the blame game...so textbook of politics today. It was quite pubescent and immature. Still is.
It is obvoius that they have not solved a certain amount of thier problems by the number of people who have decided not to return to New Orleans. It is just that this issue has been eclipsed by the media shills for other more current issues for political ratings. In otherwords this is now olde news.
It is also obvious that those who returned voted in the same bunch back in so that this can be repeated in the next calamity.
Then to solidify this explaination..in the very next Hurricane Rita the media tried to steer it again..for ratings. That General was quite corret when he indicated that the media were "Stuck on Stupid." Its about time someone called the media what they really are most of the time. I salute this General for this. We need more leaders like him.
This goes to show you ...in a real calamity dont count on the media or the politicians for help. Be as self sufficient as possible.
As to Morons..it is not illegal to be a moron. It is however illegal to shoot at the fire department and police. I dont approve of this happening. I also dont approve of the conduct of certain of the police in New Orleans. This too became obvious by the number who quit the job or got fired later. I do not know that this basic scenerio would not happen here in such a calamity as it has become quite obviouis that our local constabulary has become "politically correct" .....not effective. A new type of leadership has taken over here.....Politicians..not policemen. Hence my opinion that a similar pattern would evolve quickly here too in coastal Virginia.

From what I remember seeing on the boob tube and hearing in commentarys on the news ...many of those in New Orleans doing alot of the chaos were those who were preconditioned to a dogma and religion called "Instant Gratification." This meaning they had made no preperations before the Hurricane hit. This fingerprint...."instant Gratification" is not a fingerprint of many of the posters on this survival thread. This is a significant difference in conditioning/thinking/education/Faith.
Many in New Orleans could make plans and moneys for the games at the very expensive Dome but not for thier survival...including government peoples. THey should have invested in a better levee system not a Super Dome.

AngryAmerican ..I will remind you of past history in that back in 1969 that very area Boloxi, Pas Christian, Gulfport, Mississippi was hit by one of the most violent Hurricanes to hit America. Camille. As I recall the winds reached some 200 miles per hour. Intrestingly enough this hurricane spared New Orleans though it is not far from these areas. My point is that even back then you did not hear alot of the "Victimization" stories so popular now days. People and politicians banded together to do what needed to be done. No whining and blaming going on. This was the hurricane which made the stupidity of a Hurricane Party popular in the American Conscience. I post this in contrast to what happened recently in New Orleans.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 1-4-2007 by orangetom1999]