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Believer Syndrome.

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posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Gunney

That indeed is very interesting. I suggest you read "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn if you haven't already.


Is it a book about a monkey or gorilla?

My brother gave me a book called "Ishmael" (i think) about 10 or 12 years ago, and i did read it. alot of symbolism, but i don't recall if it was the same book,

i'll look into it if it was not.

Thanks for the advice on the book either way. if i have read it, i will certainly read it again, and if it is not the same book, i will look it up.

Thanks again for the advice,
John Paul

[edit on 19-12-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]




posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:32 AM
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Yes, it is a book about a telepathic guerilla. Deals with the history of civilization. It talks about the rapid advancement of civilization.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by Gunney
Yes, it is a book about a telepathic guerilla. Deals with the history of civilization. It talks about the rapid advancement of civilization.


It's been so long since i read it, i forgot about the details. I'm sure i'd probably get alot more out of it by reading it again. I read it with a far different perspective on life about 10 years ago.

I think your suggestion is a great one. And i will read it again.

thanks again Gunney,
John



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by Reality Hurts
So rich,to you, this is reasonable:

(Basic Summary)

superpaul55: I dont believe it
Esoteric Teacher: I believe, therefore it is.
superpaul55: Prove it.
rich23: Its pointless and unreasonable to ask him to prove it


No, this is not my position.

It's pointless and unreasonable to ask those questions in the first place because they are not susceptible to proof. Therefore the whole exchange becomes circular and pointless.

Obviously this point is a little too subtle and un-dramatic for the passionate believers on both the "believer" and "skeptic" sides of the argument. I did suggest other lines of inquiry that might prove more fruitful, but that seems to have passed you by.


The pointless and unreasonable part is to believe without reasonable proof.


Stll people bandy this word "proof" around like they know what it means. And, come to think about it, the word "belief", too.

It would really help the discussion if everyone would realise what the nature of "proof", "evidence" and "belief" is. As someone so rightly pointed out earlier, if aliens landed on the White House lawn tomorrow and (god help them) met Dubya (I'd love to see that), there would still be people saying, it's a PSYOP, it's a fake for the NWO. Other people's standard of evidence would have been met, and for them it would have been "proven" that aliens did exist and landed on the White House Lawn.

In fact, there would be no such proof, merely a standard of evidence that satisfied some and failed for others.

Everyone here's looking for absolutes and looking for a fight. Very few people want to think.



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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Esoteric, you have still failed in anyway whatsoever to define.

1)A date and purpose of the global alien conspiracy.
2)What an alien looks like.

Everyone around here can see you have attempted numerous times to avoid answering questions proposed to you if they read the posts. I have concluded that you cannot answer the questions and thank you for your time. Have fun discussing telepathic gorillas.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by superpaul55]

[edit on 19-12-2006 by superpaul55]



posted on Dec, 19 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Okay, some answers!!! And I think I may have some explanations. For your first one, language, the so called "Bible code".


Judge not lest thee be judged.


And you say that the bible judges. This is an easy one. The bible was written by people who had help from God. So this book is basically God's book. So it is okay for this book to judge us, but it is says that we shouldn't judge other people.


We are currently in the domain of Satan/Lucifer


Lucifer also means Morning Star aka Venus. Of course that makes no sense. However, I searched this through, and I could not find this phrase in the bible. Maybe you could give me the verse for it.


The mind of a child shall direct them


Once again, not finding it.

As for the whole reversing and phoenetics thing, you can just find words and make them work. Im sure if I tried I could make some things that could work, but that doesn't make them true. Also, Edun as you said, I've always seen Eden when I went to CCD. I never heard anyone say "My holy ...." anything. It really seems that you are trying to stretch these to make them work. Also, what does a distress call have to do with the holy trinity? Also have you realized that this is probably only possible in english, especially when other languages like mandarin and japanese use symbols for whole objects?

As for your history, and human beings seemingly being jump started I guess you could say. There is this little theory that you may have heard off called evolution. Apparently it says that human beings got smarter over time. So time would get shorter and shorter between inventions and stuff. And befor the 1902 T model, there were steam engines, trains, steam boats, it didn't just go from horses to cars okay? As for the space ship, that was again a natural progession. After we made the car engine, we tried to see what is something bigger and better we could build. And the rocket ship was it.

First off, Let toy isn't even a gramitically correct sentence. Let, as dictionary.com says,

let1 /lɛt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[let] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, let, let·ting, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to allow or permit


So allow toy. What does that mean? And what does the toliete to do with let toy. Also you said that the me play with part was uncessary. It actaully is. Who are you allowing to do what? You are letting this littleboy play with his toy.

Feel free finish answering your question if you want.

[edit on 19-12-2006 by wswbkbroiler]



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Gunney

Originally posted by rich23
stuff noone read


Okay, now say what you REALLY mean. Just try it in two or three sentences, we're smart, we can fill in the blanks.


Let me guess.. you're a 'believer'.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by superpaul55
Esoteric, you have still failed in anyway whatsoever to define.


No, i have not failed. You are mistaken.


1)A date and purpose of the global alien conspiracy.

The only answer you are currently willing to accept is a specific date and you are also only willing to accept that there is only one agenda. Any reply to the contrary is not accepted "in anyway whatsoever" by you as a sufficient response. It is apparent that unless the answer conforms to your expectations, then the answer is not sufficient for you. Unless i can offer one date, and one conspiracy, you are consistantly unwilling to accept my reply to this inquiry. MY RESPONSE HAS BEEN FOR OVER A YEAR ON THIS SIGHT THAT NO ONE PERSON NOR ONE ORGANIZATION HAS THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION. The date is determined by humanity's intentions. Humanity's intentions are reflective of their actions and behaviors. So, in effect it is you who also determines the date, and it is you who are part of the conspiracy. So, what is your agenda? Answer this question, and perhaps we will know more about a proposed "global alien conspiracy". If this reply fails to meet your expectations for a "definition" you are willing to accept, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your expectations.



2)What an alien looks like.

I have supplied an answer to this, which you are obviously not willing/capable of accepting. You said:

Originally posted by superpaul55
Esoteric, you have still failed in anyway whatsoever to define.

hmm. perhaps if i worded it a different way then ....


2)What an alien looks like.


perhaps my response needs to conform to your expectations in order to be anything other than "still failed in anyway whatsoever to define".


2)What an alien looks like.


Using earth as a model we can expect to find that all life throughout the universe also has absolutley no diversity whatsoever. All aliens must conform to one definition of what they look like. Any other response will be catagorized as "a falure" to provide a suitable response. So i hereby concede that i have failed to answer your question, since the response would not conform to your expectations.



Everyone around here can see you have attempted numerous times to avoid answering questions proposed to you if they read the posts.


Re-read the posts. A question has a question mark at the end of it. If there is no question mark, then you did not ask a question.
Also, if you re-read my posts, they do fall within the context of this thread's introductory post. If these two questions are now the only perameters of this thread, then this thread is no longer what this thread was introduced as. Perhaps you should begin a new thread focused around these two questions, and allow for this thread to be what it was meant to be about with regards to the introductory post.



I have concluded that you cannot answer the questions and thank you for your time.


I have concluded that unless there is only one physical description for all alien lifeforms, you will not accept the answer to you inquiry. I have concluded that unless there is a date already agreed upon by all involved, you will not accept the answer to your inquiry. I have concluded that unless there is only one agenda/conspiracy you will not accept replies to your inquiries.



Have fun discussing telepathic gorillas.


Sorry, i was answering a question. But, in our defense, you had already forcibly derailed your own thread, since it is you who does not wish to engage in a discussion concerning the subject matter of this thread's introductory post.



1)A date and purpose of the global alien conspiracy.
2)What an alien looks like.


1) No one person knows the date. there are organizations with differing agendas.
2) Life throughout all existance is even more diverse than the life on earth.

If you can not accept these answers, then is it me who is failing?

READ THE THREAD INTRODUCTION

Why is this thread no longer about what this thread was suppose to be about?

MY QUESTION IS:

Are these now the new perameters of this thread???:

1)A date and purpose of the global alien conspiracy.
2)What an alien looks like.

date of what?


[edit on 20-12-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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I see you have returned Esoteric. Well done, you have dodged the questions yet again. Everyone can see this. You don't seem to have answers, so don't pretend to. You have successfully turned the thread into a grammatical exercise for yourself.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by superpaul55]



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by superpaul55
Well done, you have dodged the questions yet again.


How so?



Everyone can see this.


You speak for everyone?



You don't seem to have answers, so don't pretend to.


funny.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 06:57 PM
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Esoteric, please answer the questions.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by superpaul55
Esoteric, please answer the questions.


What questions have i not supplied a reply for?



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Superpaul55, no one will give u concrete evidence of global NWO/Reptilian conspiracy on this forum. There are people who know the truth about their agenda. But answers to your questions wont be answered here. Anyway, why do you think that you deserve something to be proven to you? Do reserch for yourself. You keep asking the same question; "Can someone prove, with concret material evidence, that global conspiracy is true, and its underway." Then i can ask you this; "Can you prove theres not?" Thats stupid! Ok, you are sceptic, i respect that. You need to get logical expantions of things around you. You must see it, hear it, smell it, etc. Five sences are your limit i suppose. That reminds me of saying; "Monkey does what monkey see" And thats exactly what thay want. We are so easy to manipulate. People are obsesed with trivial material things served by mainstream media to distract us from realizeing who we realy are, that we are spiritual conscience beeings, much more than we know. We need to procced to seek that aspect of our lifes. But we are too busy and occupied with irrelevant simple things that makes us happy for the moment.

Heres some history examples of beliving in things and how it changes with time, with bigger awarenes and conciousness.

In the past people belived that Earth is a plane. Thats what they learned and was told by their "government" and religion for years. Then some guy showed up and said that Earth is not plane but its round (elipse) object. He was killed. Years passed by and it appears that he was right! But in that period of time it was just imposible to be. Same thing with theory of Sun orbiting arond Earth.

I often like to think, for example; Did people who lived in, lets say, in 17th century could imagine TV, phone, cars, space shuttles, computer, face on Mars, people walking on the moon(?), ect. I think not. However the material for making all those things was there. But simple they wasnt aware of it. I hope u getting a point.


Why people like to think that humans are somthing special and ultimate in this universe, of what we cant even imagine size of it, laws in it, not to mention dimesions and densitys. Are we something special? Look around yourself and you will see that we are miserable, killing ourself for profit, exploiting and killing our planet. Just few examples, but im sure you will find much more. We need to realize who we realy are. To raise our conciousness and perceptions to see "real" reality. Not the one that our goverments, media, religions, schools are serving to us.

Imagine a fish in a fish tank in your room. U sat on the chair and observing a fish in a tank. Obseriving fishs behavior, food circles, resting time in castle on the bottom of the tank. Do you think that fish is aware of observer, you? I think not coz fish is on lower level of conciousness. The same thing is with water in the tank. Fish is aware of water around itself, but water is not aware of fish in it.

Another one from animal world.


One man have found an eagle egg and placed it under chicken.
Little eagle was born along with little chikens and grown up with them.
Whole his life he was doing the same thing as chikens in the yard, thinking he was one of them.
He was pecking dirt in serch for worms and bugs, cackleing and fluttering his wings, elevating just few inches above the ground...
...Years passed and eagle grow old.
One day, on the clear blue sky high above, he saw amazing bird with wings wide spreaded cruiseing freely on the wind.
Old eagle was amazed.
"What is that?" he asked.
"Thats Eagle, king of the birds." answered one chicken.
"U see, he belongs to sky, and we, chickens, belong to ground"
When his time has come, eagle passed away not knowing who he realy is.

Dont let that hapend to you!

p.s. It may be some grammar errors, English is my second language but im learning



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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The reason I am asking these questions is that I have read up on Ufo's and the supposed 'New World Order' and do not believe it. I want to know why these people believe it. I am completely aware that the world changes and am simply trying to find out why these people believe it is changing in this direction. I do not have to 'deserve' this to be proven to me. I am quite aware the world is not perfect, and the 'conspiracism' seems to be a rather strange attack on that.



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by superpaul55
The reason I am asking these questions is that I have read up on Ufo's and the supposed 'New World Order' and do not believe it. I want to know why these people believe it. I am completely aware that the world changes and am simply trying to find out why these people believe it is changing in this direction. I do not have to 'deserve' this to be proven to me. I am quite aware the world is not perfect, and the 'conspiracism' seems to be a rather strange attack on that.


I replied to you queries, they are back a few pages; just in case you didn't read it yet.
If you have looked over the post, and would like to debate me on some of my answers, I would love the opportunity, Supper.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by pompano]



posted on Dec, 20 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by pompano

Originally posted by superpaul55
The reason I am asking these questions is that I have read up on Ufo's and the supposed 'New World Order' and do not believe it. I want to know why these people believe it. I am completely aware that the world changes and am simply trying to find out why these people believe it is changing in this direction. I do not have to 'deserve' this to be proven to me.


I replied to you queries, they are back a few pages; just in case you didn't read it yet.
If you have looked over the post, and would like to debate me on some of my answers, I would love the opportunity, Supper.

[edit on 20-12-2006 by pompano]


...and I would just like to piggyback in Pompano's invitation. I answered your questions in one of your five or six other threads and have yet to see you do anything but continue to ask the same questions over and over of new and different posters. Let me ask you a question, Paul; maybe you'll answer it.

Who on this board do you personally believe is a "New Age Conspiracy Theorist"? Maybe it would help if you addressed those people directly. You fail to discern the many major differences between the belief systems of most people in this community. You alienate with your generalizations. Can you specify your focus? Or are you just going to start another thread?



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 05:57 AM
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Hmmm... superpaul, you persist in asking the wrong questions. You won't change anyone's mind. You won't have your own mind changed. You look for certainty in a fluid world. It isn't there.

By reframing your questions more intelligently, understanding what "belief" is, and the abuse of the word "proof", you might be able to move forward. As it is, you're locked in an unproductive cycle that will simply drive you nuts.

Enjoy.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 07:47 AM
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There are so many things you can study about this, and maybe that is why you haven't had much luck with people leaving proof or links for you.
Just one suggestion I have is to read 'Bringers Of The Dawn" by Barbara Marciniak. I am sure you can find it fairly cheap at somewhere like halfprice.com, (I don't know if that is the actual address my wife told me about it. If you are interested you can find it on google or any search engine. It is great you can get books, music, etc way cheap)

That book is what started it all for me. I always knew deep inside something wasn't right and when I read that book it opened the door and my soul and my mind to what is going on. I am not saying the book is the absolute truth, it just made me REBORN you might say and now I study all kinds of stuff.

You probably won't read this anyway cuz it's at the end, but if you really need someone to look up something for you let me know by U2U and I can look up some crazy stuff.

I think sometimes people get to factual as well. They think they need to be able to see it or prove it scientifically for it to be real. Don't get me wrong it is good to search and ask questions and science is awesome. I think we are currently in the beginning of learning how to meld the 2 together. But that is my superior brain spouting it's babble not having any factual proof.

I truely hope you find the answers you are looking for. I better go, the camera in my monitor just did something weird, I don't want them to find me. Also the sensors those darn Greys put in me need some more poison. Ha Ha Ha, I hope you know I'm joking "kinda"

My best suggestion, google the crap out of whatever questions you have. A lot of people now days are more in tune with their physic abilities than they have been for a long time. Maybe that is why they do not feel he need to prove things as much.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Ok--

I want everybody to LISTEN UP --- because I'm about to answer SuperPauls initial request. SP--for you and your subject matter, et al, the following represents the only kind of clear answer you are likely going to get from anyone up here.

Am I a "believer" in UFOs? No, I am a bit more than a "believer", I am a
witness . For what it's worth as a word, it represents a level or two beyond the scope of mere "belief".

I used to live in Northern Nevada and worked as a hand on a very large cattle ranch. That was 20 years ago when, in that part of the country, what came to be called "cattle mutilations" began to occur. I have physically seen and examined mysteriously mutilated cattle--precision cuts and precise removals of particular parts that is not possible with manual surgery today. I have also seen freshly killed, surgically altered, cows which were completely desiccated to the extent that no body fluids, whatsoever, were present in any amount that could be determined scientifically by necropsy.

A grand total of once during this period, when we were seeing "lights in the sky", I saw, first hand, the landing of a huge triangular aircraft which I estimated to be around 350' in length and 80 or 90' across the back. I would compare the length to that of a Navy Destroyer. How did I get that estimate? The craft flew right over the top mine and my horse's head from the ridge top we had just descended. The craft was dead silent, but you could feel a warmth from it and it kicked up dust. It's altitude above us was less than 1500'. It was moving at no more than 70 or 80 mph. I'll add here that my Horse, Doobie, sensed this thing way before we saw it, and cleared the rather steep down-trail a little quicker that I'd have liked, and then insisted on stationing us between some large rocks and purple sages at the base of the hill. Doobie was a local Mustang, and I had learned early on to not argue with his instincts. The craft continued to the SW of us for about a mile and sat down. I lost sight of it due to brush just before it touched down, so we went up a little higher to get better view. I had binoculars, a 30-30, and a model 59 S&W. I pulled out the binocs and the rifle (just in case). I did get a good view of it. There were no "little green (or Grey) men" in my view and I never saw any-- just the craft. 10 seconds and I was on the radio to the compound. About 2 minutes later, there were at least 4 conventional jets, at reasonably high altitude as I never saw them, but they were definitely fighters--you could tell by the sound. A short time later, there were helicopters coming in over the ridge and the craft lifted off--turned south--picked up speed and altitude--and I lost sight of it--and the sound of the fighters, as well. I assume they pursued it. I forgot to tell you it was dark at the time this took place. A couple of days later, I was interviewed and wrote a report for both the Sheriff's Dept and some "government types". The later sat on that landing area for about 3 days, and nobody was allowed near it. I don't have a clue what they found, if anything. I do know that there were some mutilations about 18 miles north of us earlier that same evening. I know that where the craft sat down was really close to--if not right beside-- a hot spring, which we had fenced to keep the cows out of it.

The next thing is that I have seen UFOs-- and that because I could not identify the type of craft, even with extensive knowledge of he current military and civilian aircraft as both a Certified Pilot and Military Vet. I have seen these craft severally at several different altitudes, in all kinds of light and atmospheric conditions, and even tracked objects outside the atmosphere-- in orbit--which proved not to be satellites like I initially thought, and that because they changed directions, stopped, and then split perpendicular to their initial path, and vanished in a streak of light. The "second" streak was what you call an Einsteinian Reflection, or, Refraction that was predicted by the Second Theory of Relativity should occur if and when some objects goes hyper-light with respect to the observer. The incident I just described was also seen by more that 200,000 other people--that figure being the ones who took the time to phone the sighting in to NORAD and local AFBs and Airports. The most surprising things about that, to me, is why so many people were looking up, and at the same sector of sky, at between 2 and 3 am EST on a Sunday morning. The incident is well documented in Local Papers from Bangor, Maine to Miami, Fla.

So, you see, SP, I am a Witness, not just a "believer", and a "believer" only because I have no choice but to accept what I saw with my own eyes, and experienced in real time.

Do I have PROOF? Photos? Tape recordings?. No, what I do have is my Word, which is my Honor. What you have is a Choice on whether to trust my Word or not. All I can tell you is that I have told you the truth about a true occurrence. Whether you choose to believe me, not believe me, or even choose not to choose at all, makes no difference to me, and no choice you make will affect how and what I believe, myself, about what I have seen, and what I have not seen yet.


Let me apologize to the rest of you for being so long winded. I felt it needed sharing--and saying.



posted on Dec, 21 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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Aliens and ETs excist. they have been here for sure, just take a look at ancient past (and not what you're told in school books).

now the whole "believing" process only comes when there are mentaly inferior people trying to think THEY know it all.

now, no its not about us trying to make you believe (although some do),
it's about making you REALIZE what is up.
If you don't want to believe it, then i say fine, you can be subbern and not have an open mind.
Live your life of ignorance and pointless skepticsm for whatever purpose it serves.
because non your b.s. concerns me. and when you decide to debate the topic
or even begin to try to understand what "believers" are doing, you're only
going to make a fool of yourself.

Because you don't really care, so why listen to you?
and i think trying to debunk or trying to make it make more sense to you
is really YOU, the skeptics, trying to feel more superior to something that is beyond you.

so for this "Believer Syndrom" to be accurate, the skeptic needs only to look in a mirror.

i think it's funny that skeptics think so low of themselves. lol morons.



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