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Do infants go to hell?

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posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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I have started this thread because a member could not leave the topic alone and was getting way off topic in another thread.

Are infants and children born into sin? Are we all born innocent? I believe that the bible tells us that we are born innocent, that there is no original sin.

In 2 Samuel 12:22-24 we find that Davids child dies. David says that the child cannot return to him, however someday David will go to the child. Seeing as the bible tells us that David went to heaven, it should follow that the child also went there, even though he hadnt had a Roman priest throw water at him.

2 Samuel 12:22-24: His servants said to him: "What is this you are doing? While the child was living, you fasted and wept and kept vigil; now that the child is dead, you rise and take food."
He replied: "While the child was living, I fasted and wept, thinking, 'Perhaps the LORD will grant me the child's life.'
But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."


Further, the Christ told us repeatedly that children were innocent, and that we should be like them. Like in Matthew 18:3-5: Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.


Also, the bible is clear that we did not inherit the sin of Adam, because we do not inherit the sins of our fathers. In Ezekiel 18:20, the Bible says: The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son.




posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by cavscout
I have started this thread because a member could not leave the topic alone and was getting way off topic in another thread.


I suppose you mean me


Are infants and children born into sin? Are we all born innocent? I believe that the bible tells us that we are born innocent, that there is no original sin.


I disagree. The Bible tells us there is original sin.


In 2 Samuel 12:22-24 we find that David�s child dies.....*snip*


I see you see no difference between a child and an infant.


Further, the Christ told us repeatedly that children were innocent, and that we should be like them. Like in Matthew 18:3-5: �Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.�


In Matthew Jesus was talking about a child who walked amongst them. Infants can't walk, nor can they accept jesus with a concious mind. Neither can the severely handicapped, which means we'l be seeing them in hell too.



Also, the bible is clear that we did not inherit the sin of Adam, because we do not inherit the sins of our fathers. In Ezekiel 18:20, the Bible says: �The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son.�


Actually that's more of an ambiguous interpretation of that passage, while if we look at Psalm 51:5 we see...


1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.

4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you are proved right when you speak
and justified when you judge.

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.


So not only are infants subject to original sin, but aborted fetuses too, and because they didn't accept Christ, they will burn in hell.

So, do you want to use another bible passage to refute the bible?

So curious, The bible looks like it's saying two entirely different things.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Rasobasi420]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
In Matthew Jesus was talking about a child who walked amongst them. Infants can't walk, nor can they accept jesus with a concious mind. Neither can the severely handicapped, which means we'l be seeing them in hell too.


I can't tell if you are joking or not. The Christ said to humble yourself like one of those children, not move your feet in the same physical way. Were you joking or simply being hateful?



Actually that's more of an ambiguous interpretation of that passage
Actually, it is quite clear. Sin is not genetic, we will not be punished for the sins of those who came before us.


while if we look at Psalm 51:5 we see...


We will see a poem. David was being over dramatic, showing emotion, and speaking about HIMSELF. He was relating the soaring, wonderful highs as well as the horrible, lonely, humble lows that he gone through in his life. He was filled sorrow, saying that he was filth and always had been. The bible is not an encyclopedia, it is a love story.

Further evidence that David was not speaking literally can be found if you read the rest of Psalm, such as 58:3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." While at first it would appear that Psalm 58:3 backs up your hate-filled argument, this is not the case. In 58:3 David, being overdramatic in this poem, this song, says that the wicked speak lies as soon as they are born! Infants dont speak! David was being a drama queen.

Remember also that David lived before the Christ came to us, before he finished his plan for salvation. David was under the Law, not grace so David's child was not baptized and had not accepted Jesus as the savior. However David, whom you quote in Psalm as the basis for your argument, said that his child did not go to hell.


So not only are infants subject to original sin, but aborted fetuses too, and because they didn't accept Christ, they will burn in hell.


Well, now who is being dramatic! Apparently not only David is capable of it.
You do not believe that anyone goes to hell, let alone infants and children, so what is your purpose quoting scripture? Are you trying to seek converts to your hateful faith? Even if you were right about the nature of the universe, what do you gain by swaying others? Are you lonely? I know your soul must be lonely without the love of the Lord, but don’t grow spiteful over it. You can change; your heart can be warm. I love you




[edit on 16-12-2006 by cavscout]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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Interesting reading:

www.layhands.com...



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:06 PM
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The bible is quite clear that we are "born into sin," so, if there were a "hell," then yeah, an infant would be apt to go there.. At least according to the interpretation of the whole "born into sin" doctrine.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The bible is quite clear that we are "born into sin,"


Care to elaborate with some examples of the bibles clarity in support of your statement?



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Well, the very fact that Christ declared all people sinners is a rather implied case in point..


But, if you must have a reference, here is one from a Christian site


Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (John 3:3 NIV)

When we are born into this world, we are born into sin and death. When we are "born again" we are reborn spiritually into God's family. Having turned to God in repentance through faith in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior, we are "born again" into righteousness and eternal life. (Romans 5:12-21)

Christian baptism is a symbol of this. As one stands in the water, they are testifying that they were in Christ Jesus when sin was judged on the cross of Calvary. As they are lowered under the water, they are testifying that they died with Christ Jesus, and were buried with Him. When they come up out of the water, they are testifying that they have arisen to a new life in Christ Jesus (they are born again). (Romans 6:3-4) As the Bible says: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old (life) has gone, the new (life) has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV, words in parenthesis are mine)
Born into Sin,according to "christians."



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:48 PM
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no.. the kid just left hell...
(and no, the kid didn't go to heaven either)

[edit on 12/16/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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The article I posted discusses all your questions. You guys should read it.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Jesus Loves the Little Children, not.

How can one expected to be faithful to a religion and a God who espouses that "jesus loves the little children" but then we see in the christian scriptures that if babies and children are not Baptised they go to Hell and eternal damnation? Punishing little children because of their parent's mistake...how about all the poor little innocents that never even draw breath due to miscarriage, stillbirth or birth defects ? How about all the other little ones that manage to survive horrible deformities and genetic disorders that cripple their bodies and make their and their families lives a living hell ? gee that sounds like a merciful God I want to follow...not.

All christians are taught that they are 'born into sin' because of the temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. How long are christians expected to pay for that one ? Not my sin.

As a female educated by nuns (when they were really nuns) in a private catholic convent, who went to Mass every Sunday and celebrated Baptism, Communion and Confirmation, I elected to turn my back on religion due to the ridiculous explanations and answers given by so called learned theologians, priests and nuns etc. when I asked questions. They speak in riddles and contradict themselves.

I try to be a good person to others.

Peace to All



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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You know we just have this one Book. It covers a lot and answers thousands of questions but unfortunately and expectedly it doesn't answer everything to the fullest. At some point, with unaddressed issues I/we should just trust (have faith) that God is doing the right thing and continue to study what we have. There is much to learn.



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