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Originally posted by vK_man
I read it and it only proves your point that to on USSR capable of winning nuclear war with west and
nonsense , here see the combatant list:
The former director of the CIA and current Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs "From the Shadows", that American intelligence services began to aid the opposing factions in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet deployment. On July 3, 1979, US President Jimmy Carter signed a directive authorizing the CIA to conduct covert propaganda operations against the revolutionary regime.
Carter advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski stated "According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise." Brzezinski himself played a fundamental role in crafting U.S. policy, which, unbeknownst even to the Mujahideen, was part of a larger strategy "to induce a Soviet military intervention." In a 1998 interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, Brzezinski recalled proudly:
"That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Soviets into the Afghan trap..." [...]"The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the Soviet Union its Vietnam War."
what there were spy statellites in space in 1950-53(korean war)
THE BIGGEST JOKE OF HISTORY , THE FIRST SAT IN SPACE WAS SPUTNIK IN 1957 .......
says the person, who says that russia is invincible to nuclear strike
wow... now this is funny .... as stalinism is rising in russia
slightly offtopic ....
Gorbachev was the son of Russian peasants in Stavropol territory (kray) in southwestern Russia. He joined the Komsomol (Young Communist League) in 1946 and drove a combine harvester at a state farm in Stavropol for the next four years. He proved a promising Komsomol member, and in 1952 he entered the law school of Moscow State University and became a member of the Communist Party. He graduated with a degree in law in 1955 and went on to hold a number of posts in the Komsomol and regular party organizations in Stavropol, rising to become first secretary of the regional party committee in 1970.
Gorbachev was named a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1971, and he was appointed a party secretary of agriculture in 1978. He became a candidate member of the Politburo in 1979 and a full member in 1980. He owed a great deal of his steady rise in the party to the patronage of Mikhail Suslov, the leading party ideologue. Over the course of Yury Andropov's 15-month tenure (1982–84) as general secretary of the Communist Party, Gorbachev became one of the Politburo's most highly active and visible members; and, after Andropov died and Konstantin Chernenko became general secretary in February 1984, Gorbachev became a likely successor to the latter. Chernenko died on March 10, 1985, and the following day the Politburo elected Gorbachev general secretary of the CPSU. Upon his accession, he was still the youngest member of the Politburo.
In 1979, he was promoted to the Politburo as a candidate member, and received full membership in 1980. There, he received the patronage of Yuri Andropov, head of the KGB and also a native of Stavropol, and was promoted during Andropov's brief time as leader of the Party before Andropov's death in 1984. With responsibility over personnel, working together with Andropov, 20 percent of the top echelon of government ministers and regional governors were replaced, often with younger men. During this time Grigory Romanov, Nikolai Ryzhkov, and Yegor Ligachev were elevated, the latter two working closely with Gorbachev, Ryzhkov on economics, Ligachev on personnel. He was also close to Konstantin Chernenko, Andropov's successor, serving as second secretary.
His positions within the CPSU created more opportunities to travel abroad and this would profoundly affect his political and social views in the future as leader of the country. In 1975, he led a delegation to West Germany, and in 1983 he headed a delegation to Canada to meet with PM Trudeau and members of the Commons and Senate. In 1984, he travelled to the UK, where he met with Margaret Thatcher.
even gurion had a a view of the future of world in 1962 that turned to be true ,
even protocols of zion has had many objectives achieved ... anyways not worthwhile discussin ... as political insiders plan years before
I can live with it if that's all your so far willing to take from my activity on this forum.
It is either that or you must believe they have crystal balls or time travel capabilities.
Well obviously if there were no spy satellites i could not have meant 1950 or 1953 and i think it would have been more obvious as the recent train wreck happened in 2004 or so
Originally posted by aaaaa
Barbarrosa was lost before it began for 3 big reasons:
1. Hitler failed to reach terms with the British before turning east.
2. 20 German divisions, including elite airborne and armor units, were chewed up in North Africa, Greece and the Balkins in support of Mussilini's failed adventures before the attack,
which also pushed the starting date back into June instead of early May.
3 The total failure of Nazi economic management in putting Germany on a total warfighting economy.
It is widely accepted that Churchill did everything in his power to delay the opening of a second front in Northern Europe in order to bleed the Russians as much as possible,
which Stalin cooperated with by setting his generals against each other in the dash to Berlin.
D-Day was launched when the real fear became that Russian tanks would reach Gibralter by the end of 1945.
P-40 and truck shipments to Russia were key elements in the offensives of 1944, prideful communist boasting notwithstanding.
The mobility and alternative opportunity afforded by these were critical in Soviet success.
While the Germans were using horses the Russians had trucks, and with- out source materials at hand, I believe I'm accurate to state that by '44 over 75% of the trucks in the system were American.
Back to modern affairs:
I still don't see how an Army manned by unwilling conscripts that finds itself beset with hazing and prostituion scandels (BBC) can be considered an effective fighting force.
I don't see how special forces that botched Beslan and the Moscow theatre hostage crises and provided no definitive victories in Chechnya can be considered world class.
I don't see how a navy that is unable to sortie more than 1 boomer at a time and stage only limited exercises with attack subs can shut off Atlantic traffic. They could not even raise the Kursk by themselves.
I don't see how an air force that lacks pilots with many hours of flying experience and training defeats one that does.
I don't see how an EW /SAM defence system that historically has failed to
even challenge American Air Dominance can be assumed to have solved that problem with new technology.
While America is wearing out it's material edge with damaged equipment and casualties in Iraq, and Putin is spending his oil money arming, the gap between U.S and Russian capabilities remains stark.
In terms of people and systems, there is simply no comparison between these countries.
Some bold assymetric strategy may be contemplated in the Kremlin as a way to assert it's power; let us hope that these military solutions remain speculative.
"Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.
A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."
So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.
DoD News Briefing
Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen
In the meantime Russia's natural gas is it's greatest weapon, and demographics it's worst enemy.
"Just before the first tremor at 3:42 am, the sky lit up like daylight. The multi-hued lights, mainly white and red, were seen up to 200 miles away. Leaves on many trees were burned to a crisp and growing vegetables were scorched on one side, as if by a fireball."
Some New Details on China's Quake
Originally posted by ape
I do agree that russia did prevent army divisions from fighting in western europe but that was only possible because of US efforts to make sure her allies didn't falter.
you honestly think russia could have defended and made that push had they not been properly supplied?
it's recorded in history that they lacked the supplies needed to fight that war
they overproduced the wrong materials needed for war and ended up badly needing equipment they didn't mass produce like they should of for war.
the troops would have starved because of no means for transport. the winter helped also.
I do not see the contradiction you pointed out.
I said they would still win a nuclear exchange or a general strategic war
There is always 'some' means of transport and in the end food enough is supplied first even if that does not mean that tens of thousands did not in fact starve or succumb to urge to just get out of the trench and take a bullet in the chest to end the suffering they no longer felt compelled to endure.
Originally posted by ape
hmm people are missing the entire point, between 41 and 45 russia only produced twenty locomotives, this says it all.
all soviet locomotive plants were converted and busily churning out T-34s and SUs.
during Cold War all traces of lend lease and after UNRRA help were meticulously sanitized and removed, photos of soviet soldiers riding Shermans, Universal Carriers or manning AAA guns were excluded from books and never appeared in magazines. students could learn about lend lease in two sentences in their textbooks.
some key supplies were given that enabled the soviets to concentrate their war production on other areas. for instance aircraft and avaition fuel in general was a decisive help.
It provided the higher octane fuels that were required in higher performance engines.
also trucks and railroad engines enabled them to concentrate production on armour, if this wasnt provided in massive qualntities as shown above the soviets would have had to divert production to these.
soviet operations such as bagration would have been near impossible without the transport provided and the Soviets would never have been as mobile, allowing the german forces to dance around them...
another fundamental point here is that the soviets could concentrate more manpower in their armed forces instead of having them in the production lines.
logistics win modern wars and the allies provided the logistic capability to the soviets
once again zhukov stated this and confirmed it, this is recorded in histroy. basically what you're doing VK-man is saying zhukov is a liar.
even before germany invaded russia urgent supplies were sent to the soviets with the help of 50 million dollars credit advanced by the US. russia still owes the US over 700 million dollars but they are so broke they cant pay it and they refuse to pay it. what a joke.
check out this site, i'm sure everyone will dig on it...
"Conclusion" ( my quotation marks)
Overall, lend lease material made a considerable difference to the Russian war effort. Following heavy equipment losses in 1941 and early 1942 and the almost complete relocation of Soviet industry, it helped to reestablish the Russians ability to continue fighting. In the later years of the war it helped to enable and sustain the large mobile operations the Russians undertook as they pushed German forces out of Russia and back into Germany. Joseph Stalin never revealed to his own people the full contributions of Lend-Lease to their country's survival, but he referred to the program at the 1945 Yalta Conference saying, 'Lend-Lease was one of Franklin Roosevelt's most remarkable and vital achievements in the formation of the anti-Hitler alliance'. Lend lease material accounted for almost 10% of all Russian war material.
Originally posted by ape
nobody wins in a nuke fight, this is why people question your sanity on these boards.
please tell me how the soviets would have transported troops and supplies in any offensive or to defend and send reenforcments?
zhukov and history said it, not me.
Originally posted by Hiphar
VK,When many (not just one) carriers get sunk because of the inadaquacy of AEGIS, or aircraft fleet defense failure, then I may be more concerned.
If Russia or anyone else resorts to nukes against a carrier, they will find one or more ports and/or airbases vaporized in like fashion within mere minutes.
Escelation would possibly follow, along with all the uncertainties of that untested extreme of warfare.
For these reasons and more the Nuclear threshold has not been crossed for all of the Cold War for a reason, and that would be that the other side would use them then, and in as much abundance to accomplish the point, or overwhelm any defense.
That is "Deterrence". You nuke me, and I WILL nuke your ass.
(regardless of what Hollywood elites, and weak kneed liberal pacifistic communistic apologists say or think) Anything up to that point is fair game, and anything else hasn't sunk a carrier for over 60 years now.
Carriers will dominate conventional warfare at sea for a long time to come, and I believe the biggest threat to them is still the Submarine.
PS. Cohen may have been secdef but he was also RAND before that. A little history of RAND will reveal a strong Airforce Bias within that think tank which challenged the need for a navy for much of the Cold War.
Herman Kahn was also a pivotal RAND player and wrote a lot about it in his books. Thinking about the unthinkable, is but one of these. The Navy and Airforce have had a feud over nukes for decades.
Originally posted by aaaaa
Putting aside the typically antagonistic tone of Stellar's response to my post, his following points can be addressed:
Britain was bankrupt in 1940-
That didn't stop them from deploying forces that tied down Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine manpower and resources, or stop bombing raids on Germany.
The 200,000 German soldiers stationed in Norway alone would have been a welcome addition to an invasion of the USSR.
May 15 was the original target date of Barbarossa, consult the index in Guderian's "Panzer Leader" to read Hitlers orginal orders.
North Africa was a small detachment of troops but a major drain on equipment and fuel supply for Germany.
As for the Balkans and Greece, Crete alone took the resources of 4 German divisions and cost 4,000 lives and scores of aircraft.
After 10 weeks the Italian Tenth Army was no more. The British and Commonwealth forces had advanced 800 km, destroyed about 400 tanks and 1,292 artillery pieces, and captured 130,000 POWs. In contrast, the British and Commonwealth forces suffered 494 dead and 1,225 wounded. However the advance stopped short of driving the Italians out of North Africa. As the advance reached El Agheila, Churchill ordered that it be stopped, and troops dispatched to defend Greece attacked by the Italians. Also, on January 11, 1941, the HMS Illustrious suffered a crippling dive-bomber attack, allowing the first troops of the German Afrika Korps to begin arriving in Tripolitania (Operation Sonnenblume), and the desert war would take a completely different turn. 
Given other setbacks suffered during the early war years, the Allied troops of Operation Compass were highly publicized and became renown as "Wavell's Thirty Thousand," which was used as the title of a 1942 British documentary chronicling the campaign.
You may also read BH Liddell Hart's "The German Generals Talk" chapter 13 for background. This is history, not your dismissive trash talk.
Churchill played a major role in dissuading Roosevelt and Marshall from launching a cross channel invasion in 1943, who were all for it. There are too many sources to quote that refer to this reality.
Stalin set Zukov against Koniev in a race to capture Berlin that cost more than 100,000 Soviet soldiers thier lives in an unneccessary bloodbath, read both general's memoirs or serious Stalin biography to get a flavor of that contest.
Hostage crises that are resolved effectively in your opinion when all or a substantial portion of the hostages are murdered? How sick is that?
14 SSBN could be deployed by Russia in a crisis? Crew training and experience are essential for that to happen, as is equipment that is maintained and reliable. It is fantasy to suggest that a Russian navy that does not exist could do this.
They can not even conduct a successful missile test lately.
Extensive Russian air defence equipment didn't seem to work to well for Saddam, did it?
In Syria in the 80's the difference between western and Russian systems was damning.
To assume that the US airforce does not have effective countermeasures for TOR today is... ignorant.
Challenging conventional wisdom is an essential element of denying ignorance,
but simple contradiction via cut and paste will not persuade anyone of the validity of your opinion.
Originally posted by vK_man
anyways i will be open to your idea on russia ,
could you provide more sources on future russian warplans ,
any ways you are a good researcher
the insight and great power of money , helps them ... and use of freud's theories to control the population,
they weakened the society , if u read vico's theory of nations you will realise that slowi;ly and steadiliy society can be weakened.... to become a democracy,
whcih is the weakest phase and precursor to moral decay and destruction, after this society can easily be destroyed as vico warned....
hanks for clarifying
I think the current airplane projects in Russia are largely intended
The missile flies 60 km up and starts attacking the target from this height,” Yury Solovyov explained.
Freud could barely control himself ( talk about a one track mind) and i honestly doubt
The Century of the Self
The Untold History Of Controlling The Masses Through The Manipulation Of Unconscious Desires
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized." - Edward Bernays
THE CENTURY OF THE SELF
Adam Curtis' acclaimed series examines the rise of the all-consuming self against the backdrop of the Freud dynasty.
To many in both politics and business, the triumph of the self is the ultimate expression of democracy, where power has finally moved to the people. Certainly the people may feel they are in charge, but are they really? The Century of the Self tells the untold and sometimes controversial story of the growth of the mass-consumer society in Britain and the United States. How was the all-consuming self created, by whom, and in whose interests?
The Freud dynasty is at the heart of this compelling social history. Sigmund Freud, founder of psychoanalysis; Edward Bernays, who invented public relations; Anna Freud, Sigmund's devoted daughter; and present-day PR guru and Sigmund's great grandson, Matthew Freud.
Sigmund Freud's work into the bubbling and murky world of the subconscious changed the world. By introducing a technique to probe the unconscious mind, Freud provided useful tools for understanding the secret desires of the masses. Unwittingly, his work served as the precursor to a world full of political spin doctors, marketing moguls, and society's belief that the pursuit of satisfaction and happiness is man's ultimate goal.
One: Happiness Machines
The story of the relationship between Sigmund Freud and his American nephew, Edward Bernays. Bernays invented the public relations profession in the 1920s and was the first person to take Freud's ideas to manipulate the masses. He showed American corporations how they could make people want things they didn't need by systematically linking mass-produced goods to their unconscious desires.
Bernays was one of the main architects of the modern techniques of mass-consumer persuasion, using every trick in the book, from celebrity endorsement and outrageous PR stunts, to eroticising the motorcar.
His most notorious coup was breaking the taboo on women smoking by persuading them that cigarettes were a symbol of independence and freedom. But Bernays was convinced that this was more than just a way of selling consumer goods. It was a new political idea of how to control the masses. By satisfying the inner irrational desires that his uncle had identified, people could be made happy and thus docile.
It was the start of the all-consuming self which has come to dominate today's world.
The Engineering of Consent
Two: The Engineering of Consent
The programme explores how those in power in post-war America used Freud's ideas about the unconscious mind to try and control the masses.
Politicians and planners came to believe Freud's underlying premise - that deep within all human beings were dangerous and irrational desires and fears. They were convinced that it was the unleashing of these instincts that had led to the barbarism of Nazi Germany. To stop it ever happening again they set out to find ways to control this hidden enemy within the human mind.
Sigmund Freud's daughter, Anna, and his nephew, Edward Bernays, provided the centrepiece philosophy. The US government, big business, and the CIA used their ideas to develop techniques to manage and control the minds of the American people. But this was not a cynical exercise in manipulation. Those in power believed that the only way to make democracy work and create a stable society was to repress the savage barbarism that lurked just under the surface of normal American life.
There is a Policeman Inside All Our Heads:
He Must Be Destroyed
Three: There is a Policeman Inside All Our Heads: He Must Be Destroyed
In the 1960s, a radical group of psychotherapists challenged the influence of Freudian ideas in America. They were inspired by the ideas of Wilhelm Reich, a pupil of Freud's, who had turned against him and was hated by the Freud family. He believed that the inner self did not need to be repressed and controlled. It should be encouraged to express itself.
Out of this came a political movement that sought to create new beings free of the psychological conformity that had been implanted in people's minds by business and politics.
This programme shows how this rapidly developed in America through self-help movements like Werber Erhard's Erhard Seminar Training - into the irresistible rise of the expressive self: the Me Generation.
But the American corporations soon realised that this new self was not a threat but their greatest opportunity. It was in their interest to encourage people to feel they were unique individuals and then sell them ways to express that individuality. To do this they turned to techniques developed by Freudian psychoanalysts to read the inner desires of the new self.
Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering
Four: Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering
This episode explains how politicians on the left, in both Britain and America, turned to the techniques developed by business to read and fulfil the inner desires of the self.
Both New Labour, under Tony Blair, and the Democrats, led by Bill Clinton, used the focus group, which had been invented by psychoanalysts, in order to regain power. They set out to mould their policies to people's inner desires and feelings, just as capitalism had learnt to do with products.
Out of this grew a new culture of public relations and marketing in politics, business and journalism. One of its stars in Britain was Matthew Freud who followed in the footsteps of his relation, Edward Bernays, the inventor of public relations in the 1920s.
The politicians believed they were creating a new and better form of democracy, one that truly responded to the inner feelings of individual. But what they didn't realise was that the aim of those who had originally created these techniques had not been to liberate the people but to develop a new way of controlling them.
Predicting the future is relatively impossible unless you know quite precisely what will take place in scientific and political realms.
I firmly believe that democracy in it's stronger forms ( no two party dictatorships please) are best for the general citizenry's welfare
Without the encouragement of state propaganda ( including the church)
it's best freedom loving people everywhere fight at that disadvantage for their greater freedoms.
It is a 'fantasy' that western defense and intelligence specialist apparently consider 'real' but i really don't care as they don't really need them to ensure their current strategic dominance.
"According to Swedish newspapers, in training exercises the Gotland has sunk our most sophisticated nuclear submarines. But perhaps even more disconcerting, it reportedly sunk our largest aircraft carrier, the U.S.S. Reagan"
WRM: Speaking of human rights, you have talked with me in the past about how “ethical inflexibility”, meaning the inability of the West to move to an “advanced” stage of moral standards, is in fact hindering the West. Can you clarify this?
IK: Time to abandon ethical inflexibility or die...Ethical inflexibility prevents the West from a new technological revolution. Western countries refuse to consider genetic experiments with human beings. Recently I got a message from my comrade who is working in MGF (Moscow Governmental University—brain center of the Soviet Bloc). They said they are doing experiments on genetic modification of newborn children. They have bad equipment, but they already have some results.
Same comes with war plans. The Soviet Bloc is calculating the victory conditions of nuclear war, while the West refuses to even consider that nuclear war may have winners. If the West wants to counter the Communist World, it has to abandon ethical inflexibility
properly employed air defenses dating from the 60's in their air campaign against Serbia in Kosovo?
WRM: Can you explain your successes in your work, and why you’re so confident in your Marxist-Leninist and Communist philosophies before we go any further?
IK: I predicted the American invasion of Yugoslavia and the terrorist acts of September 11th (my only mistakes there were was the wrong date and the wrong first target of the American invasion—after all, Usama Bin Laden was America’s loyal agent—but month, year, and approximate number of deaths was correct). I am one of ASNSR’s top analysts, founder of the AD-13 Russian hacker communist alliance and the ATF-BTR techno-fanatic brotherhood army (specialized in electronic warfare: jammers of radars and IFF systems—we took part in making jammers that orchestrated “friendly fire” among American forces in Yugoslavia and Iraq). I wrote many books (scientific and science fiction), so I am widely known on Russian resistance sites