Interviews with Jacques Vallee intriguing

Mr. Vallee has some very interesting theories. He also talks about among other things, the Rendlesham forest incident and how it may have been an experiment by the air force to study reaction. In fact he believes that there is allot of that going on.

Some of his stuff may make you think twice about what you believe.

www.ufoevidence.org...

www.dailygrail.com...

And although some of you may have posted on the Skinwalker Ranch in crypto, you may be interested to find that Vallee is investigating this phenomenon also. In case you are unfamiliar with the SR here is a link associated with the story:

www.ufoarea.com...

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Edited title for spelling


[edit on 15/12/06 by masqua]

Excerpt from Valle Interview

As Vallee puts it, "The UFO phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them. It affects our own consciousness in ways that we do not grasp fully, and it generally behaves as a control system."

Vallee refers to this complex system of control--which is shaping human society over the course of thousands of years--as an "interface of reality with consciousness." It sounds a lot like Arthur C. Clarke's science fictional theme in 2001: A Space Odyssey--an alien intelligence subtly directing the course of human development, toward mysterious ends. Talk about your cosmic conspiracies!

The Cosmic Database

60GCAT: Let's talk about some of the implications of your research. If the UFO phenomenon is real, but is not aliens from outer space, we're talking about new ways of thinking about reality and cosmology, aren't we?

Vallee: Yes. In that sense, phenomenon is much more important than visitors from another planet would be. Because it fundamentally challenges the nature of reality. If UFOs are a physical reality, they certainly violate everything we think we know about reality. There are reliable reports of material UFOs that become immaterial and disappear on the spot.

60GCAT: Your theories about UFOs and other "paranormal" phenomena involve your metaphor of the "informational universe," where time and space and whatever other dimensions there might be act as a kind of cosmic computer database. What do you mean by that?

Vallee: You can get a consistent representation of reality if you look at the world as a collection of events, or 'instances' (as the philosophy of Occasionalism did in the eleventh century), rather than as a collection of material objects moving in 3-dimensional space as time flows. In virtual reality, of course, you can't tell the difference. In the real world information and energy are actually the same physical quantity. In a universe viewed as 'informational events' you should expect coincidences, telepathy, time travel, multiple realities--all those things that seem impossible in the 4-D energy universe. To me that's why puzzles like UFOs are interesting. I don't have a personal theory to "explain" them, but I see them as an opportunity to pose new questions. If it's true that information resides in the questions we ask, coming up with novel problems may be more important than having answers, at this stage of our very limited understanding of the universe.

60GCAT: So reality is like a computer database in that the right search word or "incantation" might cause a piece of information--a UFO or ghost or other anomaly--to materialize.

Vallee: If you think of [reality] as the software for the universe, all it would take is for someone to change a comma in the program and the chair you are sitting in wouldn't be a chair at all. The major benefit from this model is that it handles anomalies very well. Coincidences would be a normal expectation. If you address a database with a request for anything with the word "pool" you will get ads for sunscreen, lotions, billiard balls and an investment prospectus or two. In parapsychology gifted subjects may be forcing similar coincidences between separate locations or separate minds. One way of testing the theory, by the way, is to create massive informational anomalies and see what happens when they collapse. You could enhance remote viewing experiments, for instance, by loading the site with large quantities of data about highly unlikely events or situations, then quickly erase that data to collapse the singularity.

60GCAT: Of course, now we're talking about the intersection of science and mysticism. Do you consider yourself a mystical person?

Vallee: I have never been comfortable with an arbitrary separation of the world into the physical universe (which is presumably what science studies) and the psychological, social and psychic side of life. To me that arbitrary separation is the major weakness of our intellectual system.

Most scientists who decide to study astronomy at an early age, as I did, are probably motivated by something akin to a mystical desire to understand the night sky and to embrace the larger issues. As time goes on, of course, that desire gets eroded and trivialized. In my case I managed to keep that curiosity fresh because although I haven't had a "mystical" experience in a religious sense, I have always suspected that there was another level of consciousness and that it was accessible to the human mind. I have found similar feelings among many Net programmers, who were drawn to networking by the impression of operating outside the normal constraints of time and space, something akin to what mystics describe, although of course much more mundane.

The Controllers

60GCAT: You've said that UFOs represent a form of alien intelligence that is actively manipulating human society. How and toward what end?

Vallee: A new computer analysis of historical trends, compiled in the 1970s, led me to plot a striking graph of "waves" of UFO activity that was anything but periodic. Fred Beckman and Dr. Price Williams of UCLA pointed out that it resembled a schedule of reinforcement typical of a learning or training process: the phenomenon was more akin to a control system than to an exploratory task force of alien travelers. There are many control systems around us, and some are a part of nature: ecology, climate, etc. Some are man-made: the process of education, the thermostat in your home. If the UFO phenomenon represents a control system, can we test it to determine if it is natural or artificial, open or closed? This is one of the interesting questions about the phenomenon that has never been answered.

More Excerpts from Vallee Interview

JV: John Mack spoke of �Passport to the Cosmos� rather than �Passport to Magonia:� He had difficulty letting go of the extraterrestrial context, but he was gradually becoming aware of the fact that the strict ufological interpretation of abduction reports was too narrow. We have a long way to go in exploring the connections between high strangeness UFO reports and the parapsychological experience.

SR: On those connections � you were a member of the scientific advisory board for the National Institute of Discovery Science during the investigation of the so-called �Skinwalker Ranch�. The recent book by George Knapp and Colm Kelleher on this investigation featured a great deal of anecdotal evidence for anomalous craft, strange beings and poltergeist-like phenomenon. From your point of view, do you feel this investigation was a success, and were there any aspects that were of particular interest to you?
JV: I am still a member of that Board, now restructured under Bigelow Aerospace, so I feel bound by the non-disclosure agreement I signed.

SR: In considering research into this type of phenomena, is it really possible to approach it via the strict protocols of science? Science itself has become so entrenched with physicalist philosophy and the concept of the dominance of humanity � is it a suitable method for studying a phenomenon which may be capable of intelligently manipulating observations and results (the �trickster� element often spoken of in the paranormal)? It seems to me that any number of situations � if consciousness can affect reality (and therefore influence test results), if we are within a Matrix-like virtual environment, or as you say that UFOs may be a kind of control system � then the scientific method may not in fact the best way of investigating. In Messengers of Deception you discuss �intelligence gathering� as a method perhaps better suited to the job. What are your thoughts now on this issue?

JV: There is a distinction to be made between a Matrix-like virtual world and what I first proposed in �Messengers,� namely an information multiverse with fully physical manifestations. After all, when I was researching mystical groups in the Melchizedek tradition, and was picked up by the only cab driver in Los Angeles called Melchizedek, it was a real car and a real driver! To start understanding consciousness we need to develop a physics of information that does not rely on the formulation of the physics of energy, which is limited by its use of dimensions.

Excerpt from the Skinwalker Ranch article which seems to support Vallee�s dimensional theory

The activities seem most concentrated on a 480-acre cattle ranch owned by the family of Tom Gorman. (Gorman isn't his real name.) In 1996, the ranch was purchased by Las Vegas businessman Robert Bigelow, who arranged for an intense, ongoing scientific study of events at the ranch. By agreement with Bigelow, and at the request of many of the witnesses, a few names have been changed or omitted to protect those who don't want to be hassled by media outlets or UFO enthusiasts.

It began as a dull white light, appearing out of nowhere in the darkness of the middle homestead of the Gorman ranch. Tom Gorman saw it. So did a researcher named Chad Deetken. It was nearly 2 a.m. on Aug. 28, 1997. Gorman and Deetken were out in the pasture as part of an ongoing effort to document unusual activity on the property.

Both men watched intently as the light grew brighter. It was as if someone had opened a window or doorway. Gorman grabbed his night vision binoculars to get a better look but could hardly believe what he was seeing. The dull light began to resemble a bright portal, and at one end of the portal, a large, black humanoid figure seemed to be struggling to crawl through the tunnel of light.

After a few minutes, the humanoid figure wriggled out of the light and took off into the darkness. As it did, the window of light snapped shut, as if someone had flicked the "off" switch. Deetken had the presence of mind to snap a few photos of the event, but would later learn that his film had recorded little of what the two men had witnessed.

Hi Jbondo!

Fascinating interviews! I�ve always had a great respect for Vallee and his determination to get some answers to the UFO / ET phenomenon. After reading these interviews I see that he has covered many different angles of the situation and so, for now, I�m concentrating on one aspect which is the dimensional theory. Above are quotes from the three articles that I have collected together to show what he proposes. It�s difficult to wrap my mind around, he seems to be proposing that the ETs are from other dimensions but that they are also physical and that the purpose seems to be to guide mankind in a direction that is unknown to us. Hmmmm...I�ve read many members� posts which proposed this in various forms.

Also, I wonder if anyone is studying what he proposes in this quote, �To start understanding consciousness we need to develop a physics of information that does not rely on the formulation of the physics of energy, which is limited by its use of dimensions�. And also it is great that he has developed software to search for patterns, I wonder if it belongs to Bigelow or if Vallee will publish his findings?

And also, though I didn�t cover it in this post his description of the military being involved in manipulation of the masses is intiguing. These articles cover a lot of areas, great read, great researcher.

STM

Hi Jbondo!

Do you think that the military or some other group is manipulating us? Or do you think that it is some sort of intelligence outside of our dimension? Or do you think it is some sort of naturally occurring energy that causes experiencers to see these events? Or do you think it is a combination of the military and some outside intelligence that visits us from time to time and the military has figured it out and is utilizing it for some sort of benefit? These articles cover so many aspects, thanks again for posting them. I'm still struggling to understand all that he is proposing in them. Hope he publishes something soon that puts it all together.

STM

[edit on 15-12-2006 by seentoomuch]

"Does that mean we should necessarily believe the man who claims he was in NATO intelligence and saw a classified document about the four humanoid races that live on the moon? I don't think so."

ROFL


I read the whole article at ufoevidence. Very interesting.
I liked his points about UFO cults. Something this forum seems to be consumed with. Vallee brings a lot of new ideas to the table. I think his theories and the more conventional ET visitation explanations are not mutually exclusive. Not sure how he arrived at the conclusion that Rendlesham Forest was a staged govt psy-op experiment.

Pulsed microwaves ? Isn't that just radar ?

Hi STM,

It would definitely make sense for many of these "group experiences" to be manipulations of the military as we can just look down thru history to find all sorts of "testing of the masses". Rendlesham is a perfect example in that it seems the Air Force itself was indirectly publicizing the incident but if you think about it the military has always taken a position of denial. Why then allow an incident so deeply connected to one of its branches become so public? Unless of course you were doing it as a psy ops exercise.

When I think of dimension I think of something that is right there next to you but you can't see it. Something that's vibrating at a much higher frequency. The examples of beings coming thru portals don't fit that description IMO. It's almost like they are passing from one place to another thru a "rip" in time/space. Apparently form what I have read these "rips" (portals) only exist in certain places, SWR being one of those.

As for the UFO's themselves, they could quite possibly be traveling thru these portals also but more likely "wormholes" which could be considered portals in themselves. I think Vallee is of the opinion that there is a distinct possibility that UFO�s are not necessarily from other worlds in our own time/space at all but quite possibly other dimensions.

I like how Vallee doesn't specifically prescribe to anything but instead looks for new ways of thinking and processing that which we do not fully understand. I think he will tell you himself that there are grand apertures in the possibilities that he throws out for consumption.

I am reminded of a story I read about cow mutilations where the rancher said he saw "disc's" flying around his ranch and on close inspection he said he saw rotors above the canopies. This would indicate helicopters made to look like alien craft. If I were pressed for opinion right now I would have to say that a great deal of the unexplained is in fact military or government experiments on the masses. I also believe these �probe� type UFO�s that hover or spin in one location for hours are in fact military craft that are purposely exposed to test reaction.

I don�t know if I answered your questions specifically but I hope this helps. Of course I don�t know the validity of anything I�ve discussed here but just like you I am trying to figure things out.

Hopefully more people will jump in here with opinions.


[edit on 15-12-2006 by jbondo]

Originally posted by Schaden
"Does that mean we should necessarily believe the man who claims he was in NATO intelligence and saw a classified document about the four humanoid races that live on the moon? I don't think so."

I believe that's the point Vallee is making.

makes me think if it's possible for the brain to tune into those other frequencies and 'see' the universe more completely.

After a tip from John Lear and a little digging by STM and myself I have come to the realization that JV is probably a little light in his loafers!

See link below and draw your own conclusions...


www.greylodge.org...

it sounds to me that vallee doesnt know anymore information than anyone else that studies the alien subject

i thought of the possibility that those large "tv" cameras that were spotted in the rendelsham field were hologram projections as well, however the rendelsham case was a three day event and those cameras were only spotted on the third night, there was also high readings of radiation where a small pyramid landed on a previous night, col. halt stated that mutiple unknown lights in the sky were manuvering toward him in an obvious controlled manner and shot down a beam of light at his feet, if you listen to the audio recordings of that night col. halt was obviously frightened, i just dont think that for three nights in a row up to 60 members of the u.s. military were being fooled by a hologram projector which amounts to a big flashlight

Originally posted by jbondo
After a tip from John Lear and a little digging by STM and myself I have come to the realization that JV is probably a little light in his loafers!

See link below and draw your own conclusions...


www.greylodge.org...

Help me understand why you and STM now believe JV is a probably a little "light in his loafers" given the above article?

My sense is that most of us view any information presented with obvious occult overtones as suspect - I know I did. If you remove the obvious occult overtones, the information presented in your link above is exactly the same as the information presented in the previous articles quoted.

What I try to do when going to various links is to approach it in search of the information only, and leave out the rest that is obviously meant to engage a certain kind of individual or group. Look for the information only - and I do believe you'll find it is exactly the same.

Always,
Shawnna

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by jbondo
See link below and draw your own conclusions...
www.greylodge.org...

I don't see a problem with anything.

Originally posted by Shawnna
Help me understand why you and STM now believe JV is a probably a little "light in his loafers" given the above article?

I made a statement, that's all. I didn't shut the thread down or write a big, long retraction.

I will say this: Much of JV's theory insight comes from John Lear. That is excluding the occult stuff. However there is a great deal to absorb and I am not telling anyone to abandon looking into it.

Hi Y'all!

I agree that Vallee's theories are strong ones and they open new avenues to search for the answers we've been looking for. His references to the military and govts. being involved in experiments on the public on occasion, his growing belief after many years of study that dimensions and levels are the key to understanding what the source of this UFO/ET enigma is add up to a very interesting puzzle for us.

His method of searching for patterns I believe is correct, if in fact most of these UFO/ET events (not all) are dimensional in nature, tangible proof would not be available so the pattern method I believe would help to focus on the most likely �true� experiences. Does anyone on this board have access to the National listing of reported sightings? I don�t recall the exact name of the organization. It would be interesting to follow the patterns as Vallee suggested.

As to Vallee�s membership in the Grey Lodge (LOL! Grey?) It is very worrisome to me, but as Shawnna and Jbondo have pointed out, taking out Vallee�s mention of affiliation, his studies still stand on their own. Good point y�all. Now, as for Vallee and John Lear, I�ve found that there are some disagreements between the two, and Lear is a good guy, Vallee I do not know, so, I�m going to let it be and just move on with searching for patterns and looking into the dimensional aspects and the govt. involvement as Vallee suggested. Nothing personal, no bad feelings, just am leaving that behind and moving ahead. So once again I ask, does anyone on the board know the name of the national listings of ufo sightings? Thanks much,

STM



[edit on 16-12-2006 by seentoomuch]

Jbondo,

I tried U2U, but don't have enough posts yet. Maybe this one will put me "over the top"! Anyway, please send me some info. Thanks.

Jacques Vallee is a friend of mine, I've known him since 1999. He is one of the most brilliant people I've ever met (and I've met alot!). His integrity is impeccable and he is also a brilliant scholar. He most definitely is not light in the loafers, or anywhwere else. He has a magnificent collection of rare books, which he has actually read, he doesn't just collect them. His success is based on one thing that no one else in the UFO field does: he examines all possiblities. He works very hard at not taking a particiular position, because he wants to keep his mind open to all possiblities. He therefore, mixes with what some might call kooks, crackpots and even a few hippies, but these are people who are also brilliant, and who think outside the box. I have seen him on a number of occasions bring his file of the latest UFO incident, present his information and then sit back and listen to everyone's ideas, questions and theories. To me, that is the highest form of scientific research, not to close one's mind and to consider all possiblities.
I once asked him what he thought UFO's were all about. He repied "I think they're from another dimension." He compares UFO stories to stories about the Little People of Ireland, faeries and other mystical beings. Is he a mystic? I believe he is. He is a deeply spiritual person, and I might add, one of the last of a dying breed - a gracious, Old World gentleman. His mind never quits asking questions and his wife is about as brilliant as he is, he's gotten alot of ideas from her. They've been married for almost 50 years now and are still very much in love with each other BTW. He most definitely is not a flake, idiot, rumor-mongerer or evil wizard. He's a wonderful man, with alot of integrity and a brilliant mind that never stops asking questions and trying to find answers. I love talking with him and his wife.

P.S. - He also knows quite alot about UFOlogy. He had a UFO sighting at about age 16 or so, so he's spent almost half a century researching the UFO phenomena. He's also an astronomer. He is consulted by UFO experts and governments all over the world, so I would say he knows more than most. He is also a very humble person. He has friends from all walks of life and doesn't care what class, race, sex or ideology they come from. Truly, the hallmark of an open=minded, brilliant and multi-faceted person.

As a side note: If you remember the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", you might remember the French scientist who was eager to meet the aliens. That character was modeled after Jacques. Just some interesting trivia.

forestlady,

I must apologize for my comment as it was not necessary. I was quite wishy washy on this and deserve a kick in the pants.

My thought process was being hit from all sides so I decided to pull back and do allot more reading.

You provide some very good food for thought and I do appreciate it.

Thanks again!

JBondo, no problem. I wasn't offended, I just think very highly of Jacques and wanted to "set the record straight" so to speak. And he's so brilliant, it's hard even for very intelligent people to understand what he's saying sometimes. I find myself often asking him to explain his comments to me. I hope you do read him, though, he has alot of interesting things to say.

Posted by anon_95817 on 13-02-07 @ 07:27 PM

This anonymous post is in response to ATS thread: Interviews with Jacques Vallee intriguing

Jacques and John

I've been interested in the ufo debate for 30 years, and have found the work of Jacques Vallee and John Keel the most convincing of all, both of them offering a place to start out from, and not, to my mind, conflicting in their assesment.

Seems to me its not WHO produces the phenomena, or even WHY, - there are a number of possibilities, none mutually exclusive.
For the purposes of research (and possibly for self defence!) the priority must surely be HOW.

Additional.......... I live near, and worked on, the Bentwaters/Woodbridge site.
As far as Rendle-sham goes, I think JV hits the nail on the head. (read Ralph Noyes 'A Secret Property - probably the closest we will get to the truth for a long time)

Keep thinking!
The great unknown.


[edit on 13-2-2007 by seentoomuch]