Why are there so many Atheists on FST?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

So... I just want to check this out and see if I understand your position on this... Are you saying that it's ok and even good and righteous for you to try to "convert the fence-sitters" to your beliefs, but NOT ok for someone who believes differently than you to do so?

Benevolent Heretic, what good is there to convert to a person into atheism? Where is the love at? Would you tell your son or daughter that he or she will die forever? What would you say about Great-Grandmother or Great-Grandfather who have passed on?

Or is it better to teach your loved ones that nobody really dies, they just move on to different places? Converting a person into faith helps instill in that person the great feeling of reward for the human loss.

Would you rather talk with a person that believes that Life is Eternal and potentially ecstatic or a person that believes that life ends at the grave?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Benevolent Heretic, what good is there to convert to a person into atheism? Where is the love at? Would you tell your son or daughter that he or she will die forever? What would you say about Great-Grandmother or Great-Grandfather who have passed on?

Or is it better to teach your loved ones that nobody really dies, they just move on to different places? Converting a person into faith helps instill in that person the great feeling of reward for the human loss.

Would you rather talk with a person that believes that Life is Eternal and potentially ecstatic or a person that believes that life ends at the grave?

Once again, I am not attempting to answer for Heretic, simply answering the question as if it was adressed to me.

I just can't shut up sometimes

Well, the answer to this is rather simple. I would not want to instill my belief system on my children. However, I do understand that they would pick up some of my beliefs (possibly regarding my views on life after death).

Now this is where it gets interesting. You spoke of the arrogant and self centered atheist. But if you were to look past your own steryotypes and misconceptions regarding atheism you may have seen that heretic posted something along the lines of...oh, I dont know. This:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
They CAN be spiritual. Many, while not believing in a deity, believe that there is more to mankind than the physical. What's more than physical? Spiritual!

Some (like myself) believe in life after death. In fact, I believe the most important part of each of us is our spirit (the non-physical part of us) that moves into the next place.

So I believe that she would not instill this feeling of 'just death' into her children, and neither would I. I have more or less the same feelings as she does in regards to this subject (from what I can tell). I believe in multiple lives so that may be a difference but I stand firm in my belief of the soul and spirit.

I also believe that the soul/spirit is what we truly are. As heretic said:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I believe we are a spirit in possession of a mind and a body. Not a body possessing a mind and spirit... Our body is just our vehicle and our mind is the engine. The essence of each of us is our spirit.

I see your view of atheism is a tad skewed. We can't all be bunched together under the same tree; some of us like to wander through the fields.

[edit on 12/15/0606 by spines]

Originally posted by GreatTech
Or is it better to teach your loved ones that nobody really dies, they just move on to different places? Converting a person into faith helps instill in that person the great feeling of reward for the human loss.

After the way you insulted all atheist at the begginning of the thread.. I highly doubt you care about how people feel when someone dies.

Would you rather talk with a person that believes that Life is Eternal and potentially ecstatic or a person that believes that life ends at the grave?

Some buddhists are actually atheists. You don't have to believe in god to believe in an 'after life'.

Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant? Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife. Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways? Was this injury in thought processes, or words heard, or words read?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant?

Is that how you feel it is taken, or what athiests have actually told you?

Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife. Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways? Was this injury in thought processes, or words heard, or words read?

Or maybe they don't need a silly name for the deity that created what is. Or maybe they just don't care about the definition of what life is. Maybe they don't need to give anyone credit, because it was created for all?

Originally posted by GreatTech
Benevolent Heretic, what good is there to convert to a person into atheism?

I don't know. I've never done it or tried to do it. You'll have to ask someone who has.

Would you tell your son or daughter that he or she will die forever? What would you say about Great-Grandmother or Great-Grandfather who have passed on?

I have said that I believe in life after death. Perhaps you should read my posts.

Or is it better to teach your loved ones that nobody really dies, they just move on to different places?

I would tell my children that's what I believe... That we move on to a different place. But that nobody knows for sure.

Would you rather talk with a person that believes that Life is Eternal and potentially ecstatic or a person that believes that life ends at the grave?

You're making assumptions about atheists. I would rather talk to a person that was open-minded about the possibilities.

So we are going to ignore that last reply then? Alright, maybe when heretic comes in and says something herself you will adress it.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant? Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife. Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways? Was this injury in thought processes, or words heard, or words read?

When was it said that we found the name "God" repugnant? You sure do have a knack for generalizing an entire group up people into a nice little file that can be easily referenced.

Let me answer this one on behalf of myself, and not every atheist out there as I am sure our many and varied beliefs do not agree on matters.

I do not find the name God repugnant. I never said I have. I may not agree with the existense of the god that the capital 'G' presupposes but I do not find the name offensive in any way.

I would love to know where you come up with your ideas on atheism. Have you read nothing we have said?

I mean, we may have our agenda:

Atheist Agenda As Exposed By A D.N.A. Member

but lets not let that get in the way of the matter at hand.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant?

I don't think they do. Another assumption, perhaps? I don't consider myself an atheist, but I certainly don't consider the name God repugnant.

But at least you're asking questions to clear up your misunderstandings instead of assuming EVERYTHING.

Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife.

Why does there have to be credit given to someone? Why can't we just accept what is? I hardly think God (if he exists) is so insecure that he needs to be given credit for anything.

Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways?

Not that I'm aware of.

Note I can only speak for myself and not other fellow Atheists.

Originally posted by GreatTech
1) To attack believers?

There is a difference between respecting a persons beliefs and supporting there belief system.

3) To show "superior" intelligence in their minds?

There is a difference between logic and intelligence.

7) Lack of humility?

That depends more on a persons personality then anything else.

I have Christian friends I don't question there beliefs and vice verser. We get along just fine.

I'm gonna tell you straight out, you atheists that believe in the afterlife but don't believe in God are the biggest fools. Is that an insult? Yes.

How dare you claim to have eternal life yet ignore the Truth Christ revealed about eternal life. You Fools!

[edit on 16-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I'm gonna tell you straight out, you atheists that believe in the afterlife but don't believe in God are the biggest fools. Is that an insult? Yes.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by thehumbleone]

Humble,now that I will agree with you about. I don't know which is more ridiculous.. To believe that there is no God but that there is an afterlife or... To believe that there is a God but that there is no afterlife... Both idologies are somewhat perplexing to me.

Thehumbleone you need to be more careful who you label a fool. Remember it just as easy for someone to label your beliefs as foolish and chances are the grain of logic would run against you amongst other things. :shk:

Originally posted by GreatTech
Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant?

They don't.. perhaps they are just reacting to your own repugnant attitude.

Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife.

The concept of an afterlife does not require the existence of a god.

Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways? Was this injury in thought processes, or words heard, or words read?

Not sure what you're on about.. the word 'god' doesn't offend me at all.. and nothing I said suggested it did.
What offends people is that you use the word 'god' to justify your abuse of other people [atheists in this instance]. There have been many people throughout history who have done the same.. from verbal abuse, witch burning, slavery and genocide.. they announce that they have the moral highground yet don't practice what they preach. I tried to explain that buddhists don't believe in god.. instead of accepting this and turning away from your own biggotry.. you completely disregarded it and started up about how atheists hate god again. I don't believe in god.. so there is nothing to hate. Now.. before you start making more statements as to why I don't believe in god.. inferring that I must 'hate' him or must be being spiteful in some way, read carefully:

I don't believe in god because it conflicts with the theory of relativity.

Understand? Probably not. I have an idea! Perhaps, instead of pretending to understand atheism, you should pay more attention to christianity. You know the parts where he says "love your neighbour", "turn the other cheek", .."judge not lest ye be judged" [that ones just for you. ].

[edit on 16-12-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by GreatTech
Why do so many atheists find the name "God" so repugnant? Some atheists believe in an afterlife and yet fail to give God credit for the creation of this life and the afterlife. Has the name "God" injured atheists in many ways? Was this injury in thought processes, or words heard, or words read?

I think the more interesting question is why you and many theists find atheists so repugnant...

I don't fall into the category you and the 'humbleone' seem to vilify, but I guess it is possible that someone can believe that consciousness/'souls' are a natural and inherent property of the universe and that they are everlasting and 'recycled'.

I see no evidence for this, but I can't see why these people would have to find 'god' repugnant, just not required in their philosophical world-view.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I'm gonna tell you straight out, you atheists that believe in the afterlife but don't believe in God are the biggest fools. Is that an insult? Yes.

Yes, because the concept of an afterlife was created by Jesus...

Please, the afterlife is a concept which was around for thousands of years before Jesus was even born.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
How dare you claim to have eternal life yet ignore the Truth Christ revealed about eternal life. You Fools!

And how dare you sit up on a high horse and insult us. This has been, for the most part, an interesting conversation where people from both sides have had something interesting to say.

Read over our posts and realize that christianity does not have a monopoly on the afterlife.

Like I said, I know so many understanding and loving christians who see everyone (and the spiritual choices they make) as a crucial part of our world. They would be as ashamed with you as I am for what you just said.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Humble,now that I will agree with you about. I don't know which is more ridiculous.. To believe that there is no God but that there is an afterlife or... To believe that there is a God but that there is no afterlife... Both idologies are somewhat perplexing to me.

Why?

Why do you not try to understand what it is atheism, and other religions for that matter, stands for.

Why do you not read the replys I and others have made on this thread? We are trying to ake you see past the ignorant stereotype of an atheist...

Heretic and myself have put our spiritual beliefs out there for you to grasp and ask questions about. Yet all you and others have done is insult them at every turn. We say that we are spiritual and believe in some form of life after death and you call us fools!

Not once did we insult your spiritual choices. We have been here as the defensive party but, unlike how it should be, our arguments fall onto deaf ears.

We tell you that we are happy with the choice we have made spiritually and find no reason to think otherwise: You tell us that we cant be truly happy unless we have found your god; that it is only through him that our souls/spirits will move on to a pleasent 'next step'.

Understand this: Your beliefs are important to you...and damnit, not once have I told you that those beliefs were incorrect. I have said that they are not right for me, yet you still tell us how wrong we are...how we are fools.

To the people on this thread who are acting in this manner and giving christians a bad name: Stop. Just stop telling us how correct you are. You want us to see your way as the true way? Well, a nice first step is to truly understand what our 'way' means and to not rely on a stereotyped and bigoted list (yes, that would be the original post).

Ask us questions about what we believe. If I, the big bad atheist who aapparently hates God and religion, can go to a cathedral and sit down with the bishop for a half hour asking questions about his faith in a interested and genuine manner then why can you not give us the same regard?

@ Spine

Why are you criticising me? Did you not read my take on the whole atheism thing? Apparently not...I suggest you take a look at what I said about atheism before you start criticising me.. I am not a typical Christian.. I couldn't care less what you believe as long as your beliefs don't infringe upon what I believe..


As far as not understanding other religion...Ummm,pal, that is all I have done is studied up on other religions. I don't know of any religion, not even buddhism, that believes in an afterlife but no God.. The reason why I mention Buddhism is because many have the fallacious idea that buddhists are atheistic...WRONG!!! They are not!!




Here is what I stated about atheists. I wouldn't want you to strain you eyes looking for what I have said,spines..

Here is my take on most of them..I truly think that a lot of athiest want to believe in a God, but, because athiests generally look for empirical evidence they can not.. I think the reason that some athiests come to this forum is in the hope that someone might present some information that will confirm the existence of a God.. I actually think that deep down, many athiests are actually doubtful believers.

Where did I say anything against atheism? I didn't.. While I certainly do not agree with their opinion, they are entitled to it.. So don't lambast me for something that I didn't do.. Thank ya,Thank ya!!

[edit on 16-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I don't know of any religion, not even buddhism, that believes in an afterlife but no God.. The reason why I mention Buddhism is because many have the fallacious idea that buddhists are atheistic...WRONG!!! They are not!!

Fallacious? In future.. when you start contradicting me about my own beliefs..

BACK IT UP.

God is not relevent to buddhism as buddhism is more of a philosphy than a religion. Christianity does not have re-encarnation.. when they are judged by their god they go to heaven, hell or purgetory. Buddhists judge themselves and 'come back' to better themslves. You can believe in god and be buddhist at the same time but god is not a part nor is it a motivation of buddhism. God is not going to come and smite you if you 'sin' or stuff up or reward you for being good.. [khama is not god] you just come back instead and learn from your mistakes uintil you become enlightened. The main point of it is to alleviate suffering.. not to worship.

www.religionfacts.com...
According to BuddhaNet, a major Buddhist website:

There is no almighty God in Buddhism. There is no one to hand out rewards or punishments on a supposedly Judgement Day. Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being. [2]
The Buddha himself rejected metaphysical speculation as a matter of principle, and his teachings focused entirely on the practical ways to end suffering.

Here is my take on most of them..I truly think that a lot of athiest want to believe in a God, but, because athiests generally look for empirical evidence they can not.. I think the reason that some athiests come to this forum is in the hope that someone might present some information that will confirm the existence of a God.. I actually think that deep down, many athiests are actually doubtful believers.

No.. nothing offensive about having someone denograte all of our spiritual experiences to a lost sheep cleshe.. :shk:

[edit on 16-12-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley

Here is my take on most of them..I truly think that a lot of athiest want to believe in a God, but, because athiests generally look for empirical evidence they can not.. I think the reason that some athiests come to this forum is in the hope that someone might present some information that will confirm the existence of a God.. I actually think that deep down, many athiests are actually doubtful believers.

No.. nothing offensive about having someone denograte all own spiritual experiences to a lost sheep cleshe.. :shk:

Ah...I see... I am not supposed to have an opinion at all,eh? WOW!!!

By the way, where have you ever seen me refer to a God that is going to "smite" anyone? You haven't and you won't...Therefore,I suggest you examine what you think about Christians and Christianity before you lump all of us into your little boxed in theory.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Out of curiosity SpeakerofTruth, how did you come to your quasi-Christian beliefs? Did you just pick and choose what sounded good or reasonable to you?