The Complete Truth About Area 51

but what were saying toolman, isnt denying human capabilities, were questioning the chance of aliens and or UFOS and their technology. There is a chance, theres no denying that.

Originally posted by boywhowaits
, were questioning the chance of aliens and or UFOS and their technology. There is a chance, theres no denying that.

Well, would the MiG's belonging to the Red Hat program count ? They came all the way from Russia! Technically anything from outside of the US is Alien the America. Just look at the Aliens comeing in from Mexico (And without flying saucers at that!)

Tim

We have drifted pretty far afield of the original intent of this thread. Might as well run with it, anyway.

The reason I say that Roswell is a distraction is that it was a non-event.

In 1978, more than 30 years after the "incident," some UFO researchers using less than stellar research methodology turned it into something of mythic proportions. Over the ensuing years it has become a tangled web of lies, half-truths and distortions.

It has furher been contaminated by the MJ-12 hoax which has now been tied to the equally mythical S-4 (of Bob Lazar's creation) and Dulce.

Consequently UFO researchers have been lured into focusing on the Roswell fable rather than expending more worthwhile effort on the truly unexplained events.

Roswell has been explained. It took a lot of effort by two dedicated UFO believers. Again, I emphasize, believers, NOT skeptics!

Read their books:

The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You To Know
by Kal K. Korff (Prometheus Books, 1997)

Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe
by Karl T. Pflock (Prometheus Books, 2001)

If you can't find them there is also a great online resource:
members.aol.com...

If you read these, you will understand why I say Roswell is a distraction that is preventing progress in serious UFO research.

I just find it hard to read through that when he says "i shouldn't have said that" when it's a written record. It would be different if it were an audio interview and it slipped, but he could have taken it back since he was typing. It just kinda erked me a little. Not that it couldn't have some truth to it, but that it causes me to be even more skeptical

Shadowhawk, et al, friends:

Korff's book is available at Amazon for less than $1.00 US. Pflock's book is about $9.00. Used, but good condition (and worth the price).

Good luck - and keep looking up!

yes, shadowhawk you have many good points about Roswell, but you must remember all together that also like the Roswell Incident, Area 51 was also a non-event, is still out there in the Nevada Desert. Yes, you could say aarea 51 has died out and Area 51 has little "activity" but it still also like Roswell, minor events happend, to shape the monuments that exist today. They will never be forgotten, always questioned and always dreamed of. Roswell and Area 51, are still to this day, equaly "protected" and easily defended. But as in both sites, they lack the "activity" and the occuring events to keep them "alive". So yes, Roswell AND Area 51 were distractions

they no longer are.


and yes shadowhawk we did "stray"

but it takes a push to make the swing go higher

Before this goes too far astray and becomes a UFO Extravagansa, Allow me to set a few facts straight about Groom Lake A.K.A. Area 51:

- The first record of serious military activity out Groom Lake was in 1954-55 when the U-2 program started flight testing.

- As far as we know the first Permanent facility was built in the late 50's or Earily 60's to support the CIA's OXCART (A-12 Blackbird) Program.

- The US Air Force First started JOINT operatoins at Groom Lake with the CIA in the Earily 1970's to run the RED HAT Program which involves the testing of Foreign hardware.( Migs Radar equipment, Ect.)

- In the mid to late 70's Groom Lake expanded it's operations as the Stealth research effort was taking off.

- In December 1987 Congress Authorized the first seizure of public lands Surrounding Groom Lake

- In 1995 the Air Force Expanded the bordar to it's present location

- Groom Lake is Joint Use! People from the Air Force, CIA, NSA, DARPA, Navy Defense Department, as well as several defense contractors all have people at the Facility.

- Flight operations from the base involve Advanced aircraft designs as well as some forign built aircraft (EX: Migs and Chinese aircraft)

- The base has also been used to house Top Secret spyplanes (Earily U-2 and A-12 Blackbirds flew missions from the base)

These are some of the Facts we have verified about Area 51/Groom Lake. Everything on this list is supported by various sources in the ATS Archives.

Tim

Thank you Ghost01, but remember those are only the proven events that have occured inside of the Nevada Site. I like to think about the "unproven" and what could be in there, because there are the sketchy details that hold us back from understanding the full details.

There are many stories, myth and truth that could be lying in and or under Area 51.
They just arn't proven, Yet
we know the full story, we just need the government to admit it.

Originally posted by boywhowaits
There are many stories, myth and truth that could be lying in and or under Area 51. They just arn't proven, Yet we know the full story, we just need the government to admit it.

How true! Come to think of it, if you're into the Black Project aspect, check out the TR-3 Black Manta:

Black Manta

While it's not proven to exist, I'm certine that if they still hide Top Secret Spy Planes out at Groom Lake, this surely has to be one of them. The peices just fit together too well.

Tim

Maybe the "Black Manta" is one of the mystery projects in this article:

www.dreamlandresort.com...

There are also numerous unmanned "black" aircraft that have yet to be revealed.

Yes there are many black projects that could be worked on in Area 51 some we know of, and some that are just rumors.

For example we know of the UAV's and how they are tested and flew out of Area 51 and the surrounding bases. We also know that the orginal U2's were flown out of the Area 51 base.

Then there are such projects we need confirmation on such as the Aurora, and the TR-3B that we have pretty strong evidence that they exist, yet we don't have any govenments admiting it yet.

and no, i'm not really into the black projects though i know of a few. My goal, is more to actually confirm or disclose the rumors about Area 51 (underground rooms, the existince of alien reasarch there)

Well, I think I can save you some trouble then.

There is no evidence to support the existence of an operational system of the description that has come to be referred to as "AURORA." There is slight evidence of a possible one-off high-speed technology demonstrator, but no confirmation.

The TR-3B (not to be confused with the speculative "Black Manta") is apparently just a fantasy.

According to numerous people who have worked at Groom Lake, there are no underground facilities, no aliens and no extraterrestrial technology. There has never been any evidence to support the existence of any of these things.

The Groom Lake facility is simply a remote test site for advanced aircraft/weapons technology. Its not part of some "Cosmic Watergate" or massive govenment conspiracy. Unfortunately, most people don't want to know the truth, They are too in love with the myth.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk


Unfortunately, most people don't want to know the truth, They are too in love with the myth.

do you claim to know the truth then?

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The TR-3B (not to be confused with the speculative "Black Manta") is apparently just a fantasy.

How right you are!

FOr the Record, the one in my last post was the TR-3A, or Black Manta. We have evidence for the existance of this aircraft inclulding several reported sightins from Nevada and the Anthelope Valley area of California, which for the record is the home of Air Force plant 42 where many Secret aircraft including the F-117A Nighthwak and B-2 Spirit were built.

Tim

well shadowhawk, i understand your quite the expert on this matter, but still i must uphold my position. You may have testimonys from trusted people, but Area 51 is a Large area and unless you get someone like the base commander addressing the fact that there is no underground test area. then i shall believe you but right now Shadowhawk i have yet to hear of anything. And no i am not fascenated, with what lies inside i just work for the truth and so far. the truth is not out yet.

As a matter of fact, I know the commander and several of his predecessors. I have had the opportunity to speak with people from all levels of the command and support staff, squadron commanders, test pilots, engineers, air traffic controllers, security personnel, contractors, etc. (on down to the kitchen staff). I know people from the entire history of "Area 51," from 1955 to the present.

They scoff at all the ridiculous theories about underground facilities, UFOs, and aliens. Some, at least have developed a sense of humor about it, but others are actually angry. The publicity resulting from this unwanted attention has caused program delays, cancelled test flights and sometimes loss of contracts.

but shadowhawk, how personally do you know these people how much trust do you incorperate with them. Yes, i think the stories about Alien crafts being based in Area 51 is bull#, along with caverns of underground bases. The majority of the security there is for the black aviation projects, and that makes sense. But what i ask you now is, do you believe in Aliens and UFO's because that makes a diffrence in how you answer. For if you do, then do you believe that there is a chance that they might have had UFO crafts based there for some time, and or Alien interigations. No, i do not believe that there is anything happening/or situated in Area 51 right now. As a secret base, it is way to public, and if its true that there are hundreds of secret bases located through out USA and the rest of the world, then they would have no need to sanction them there. So my question to you is, do you believe that there were EVER ufos or aliens in the Area 51 base premises?

I know some of these people very well indeed, and have reason to trust them. I count many of them among my friends.

No. I absolutely do not believe that "Area 51" was ever used to store, study or test extraterrestrial material or equipment of any kind. The only "foreign materiel" tested at Groom Lake was from the Eastern Bloc (i.e. Soviet type aircraft, weapons and threat systems).

For the record, I believe the universe is a vast and wondrous place. Planets are extremely common. I believe the exisitence of extraterrestial life is not merely probable, but inevitable. I expect there is also sentient extraterrestrial life. The odds of such beings visiting Earth is relatively slim and I have not yet seen convincing proof of extraterrestrial visitation of this planet.

To say that you "do not believe that there is anything happening/or situated in Area 51 right now" is simply foolish. We can clearly observe the number of airplanes and people going to and from the test site each workday. We can clearly see the expansion and upgrade of facilities, built at a cost of quite a few million dollars.

Despite the publicity, Groom Lake is still relatively remote from public view. Fortunately, there are fewer tourists than there once were. The test site has outstanding facilities (control room, engineering, airfield, mission support) and I can't emphasize the value of the lakebed enough (as at Edwards, it saves lives and aircraft). There is a wide safety buffer zone and access to the Nevada Test and Training Range. For low-observable aircraft, the site has the best airborne radar cross-section range available. There are numerous assets available for electronic warfare (EW) testing. It's still the perfect place to test advanced airplanes away from the public eye and, judging from the new runways and hangars, that's just what they're doing.

Groom Lake has NOTHING to the with ET's or Spaceships!

Here is the Truth behind the UFO Stories:

First of all, UFO stands for Undentified Flying Object, which only means Something was seen in the air that could Not be identified as a known Aircraft or Atmosphereic Phenominom! If someone from the public would have seen the first test flight of the F-117, to them it might have been a UFO.

Now we all know Groom Lake is a test flight center! That means that the facility is home to many different types of exotic aircraft designs that are being tested, as part of different research programs for the Defense Department. Since the programs at Groom Lake are Top Secret, the aircraft involved are Never shown to the public. Therefore, if someone happens by accident to see a plane being tested at the facility, they will not recognize it.

Here how the UFO stories come in:

1. Nosy civian stays up watching the sky near Groom Lake.
2. Person happens to spot Top Secret Test Aircraft!
3. Person doesn't recognize aircraft, and run around repoting UFO.

See, NO UFO, just a nosy person and a Top Secret plane. Give them 20-25 years and all the "UFO's" you are seeing at Groom Lake will be on public display like the F-117 Nighthawk and Tacit Blue!

Tim

but i'm not only talking about now, i'm talking about past history. but i respect your decision and your beliefs.

that is all