Survival Rifle

Those Kel-Techs are way over priced and I wouldnt trust my life to one in ANY circumstance. The more neat little folding parts and crap there are, the more likely something will fail. And the most likely time for it to fail is when you are counting on it the most. Not to mention that I have NEVER seen a folding stock type rifle that was as accurate as a standard bodied riffle.

Personaly I will stick with my AR-15 and my MAK-90. Both are very easy to get ammo for. even in a hostile enviroment. Also since they are essentialy the same as their millitary counter parts if something malfunctions on them replacements will be easy to find. The rugers and stuff are all well and good untill something breaks.

When you say survival to me I think hostile invasion, governmental colapse, post nuke type stuff. Im not talking a lost in the woods scenario. Im talking provide food and safety for my family.

I agree..the Kel Tech rifles are overpriced. THere is one at the local gun shop here and I looked at the sticker price.

I have an AR 15 and hardly shoot it. Mini 14s too. Both fixed and folding stocks. Same with two SKS rifles. I'll put my moneys on the SKS rifles and the Mini 14s for reliability. Also of course my Shotguns.

I dont want to have to use any of them in such a manner..but they are here and on the ready line if needed.

I on the other hand am more concerned with a natural disaster type senerio here on the sea coast. Civil strife etc. Wildlife is moving into this town. Plenty of it.

Thanks,
Orangetom

It would depend upon the survival situation.

Out back of beyond, I would choose my good old 30-30. It's as dependable as can be, takes down everything I'm likely to be hunting, or conversly, hunting me. With a lighter load, you can hunt squirrels and bunnies. With more powerful loads, larger game such as deer, and elk.

Home Defense. I'll use my double barrel shotgun with bird shot (#6 or so). That'll take the starch out of most home invaders. My old, very dependable .38 spl revolver will do as well.

Whatever you use, make sure you can hit what your aiming at. Otherwise its pointless.

My 30-30 is a lever action Winchester Md. 94. Not much in the way of firepower, but than I'm not fighting a war, I'm filling my tummy. Same with my revolver, all's I want is the invader to leave. Not stay and have a shoot out, if he won't leave, I will.

[edit on 16-1-2007 by seagull]

RE - Rossi Arms:

I have a Rossi shotgun in .410 ga. (caliber). I purchased it because it's a full-sized gun, where most .410's are youth-sized. The Rossi also has a safety, where others (like the NEF) do not. I was not able to view or handle one beforehand, I basically ordered it from a dealer via a catalogue.

All that being said, I do not particularly care for it. The gun feels too light; as in being cheaply made.

My brothers-in-law have the single-shot rifles. One has a Rossi in .243, and the other an NEF in .22-250. Of these, I like the NEF better; the stock is longer and fits more comfortably on my shoulder. The Rossi has a shorter stock (is probably a youth rifle). My brother-in-law with the Rossi .243 complained about poor accuracy, but it may be his scope (a Bushnell) which might not be up to the rigors of the recoil and the opening/closing of the barrel/action. My other brother-in-law with the NEF .22-250 loves it, but he has a better scope (a Leupold), which may be the deciding factor.

All told, from my experience, I'm not too impressed with the new Rossi's. If I wanted a comparable weapon, I'd go with the NEF and make sure any scope is on the higher end.

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
RE - Rossi Arms:

All that being said, I do not particularly care for it. The gun feels too light; as in being cheaply made.

Really I dont get that at all, but ime a short guy. 5 foot 8 in 165 pounds so its awsome for my kid and I. he just addores it.

All told, from my experience, I'm not too impressed with the new Rossi's. If I wanted a comparable weapon, I'd go with the NEF and make sure any scope is on the higher end.

Thanks for the heads up I will check into the NEF's next time, sounds like a good gun.

Btw Russian Baikal makes a few very decent single shot rifles and shotguns, they may not be the best around, but they are cheap. I'm not sure if they are available in USA because of the idiotic trade ban US has recently imposed to Russian defence contractors. (same company makes some military systems too)

The old 410 snake charmers were always good guns for small persons to carry. With the old home defender load of 3 000 pellets or round balls at any normal pistol distance of 20 yards and less, you'll put down anyone foolish enough to charge you. .410 buck shot and slug loads will take down most game out to 30-40 yard range with a well placed shot.

yep in my opinion the 410 is one of the best all around guns ever invented. You can kill a rabbit and defend your self all with the same gun. It doesnt have the range of a 22 but atleast it has more knock down power with the right loads. I think thats what I like so much about it you can change loads when you change circumstances.

Bumping this thread with my question as it is this thread that brought me to it.

I have fallen in love with this gun. It seems perfect for Sit-X... easy caliber conversion, pistol ammunition, and it's damn sexy.

The Beretta CX4 Storm



So my question is:

Are carbines considered longguns or handguns? I can't find a definition in my local statutes so I'm hoping there's some common definition. I'm guessing that anything that is shoulder fired is considered a longgun.

I don't know about statutes, but in general a carbine is considdered to be a purpose designed shoulder weapon with a short overall lenght, or more commonly a shortened version of a 'full-sized' weapon (e.g. M4, AKSU 74, SA80A2 Carbine etc.

the .22 lr is a perfect round for hunting small game,and varmints. i would get one that also chambers magnum rounds. but if you're going to use it for self defense,you'd better make damn sure that you have hollowpoint magnums,and excellent shot placement. however, i would prefer a shotgun for self defense any day of the week.
for mountain lions,bear,etc. a .308 would do just fine. use cor bon ammo.

apc,

While I like the baretta it looks like you would get quite allot of barrel deflection especially at higher calibers and most probably after multiple shots. I didn't see any statistical data on performance at the website. Of course maybe I just overlooked it.

For fairly close in shooting I would say it sounds great. Of course I think that's what they had in mind.

I've got mine! Got a Mossberg 590A-Mil 12 guage shotty. It's the same one used by the Army. 20" barrel, holds 9 rounds, heat shielded, Knox Spec-Ops recoiless adjustable stock, all black. I have a Sig 556 which takes 5.56 NATO rounds. And I have a Sig P229R in a .40 S&W.

I can find ammo for these 3 weapons anywhere as all are very popular rounds. I have met all three gun types: side-arm; ranged-assault; CQB, game and self-protection.

I am satisfied with my "arsenal" and believe that I possess the perfect combination of firepower.

REM 700 .308 hands down. Accurate,Powerful and Reliable.
I would trust this rifle in any situation.
REM 700

As stated above by several previous posters I would say that the best rifle would be the Ruger Mini 14 which comes in 5.56 and 7.62 versions. 7.62 only has a 10 round mags where as the 5.56 version can take 10, 20 and 30 round mags and both can be fitted with accessories like flash suppressors, M7 bayonets (if you have a bayonet lug), scopes, etc. The Mini 14 is very very popular among the militia/survivalist movement and is also used by many law enforcement agencies such as the Utah Highway Patrol and the Texas Rangers.

Downside is that it is not cheap.

Unless you're in a firefight, any single shot rifle will do you just fine. A five or ten round mag was good enough for 90 % of the rifle fire in 2 world-wars. In a guerilla warfare scenario, you'll have limited supply of ammo . A 30 round mag is cumbersome on the Ruger Mini series, AR-15 and the AK- series of guns and utterly useless on the SKS. After about 10 quick rounds through any of these gun platforms and your chances of hitting anything past 300 meters goes way down. A good, scoped bolt gun will reach out to 1000 meters and even with iron sights can consistently hit man sized targets at 600 meters. Armed forces worldwide today still rely on bolt action rifles for longer range shooting. For added firepower in combat situations, I'd choose a MAC- 10/11 as short range, high capacity weapon over a AR- or AK- in addition to a bolt action high powered rifle.

Gotta go with the Sig Arms 556. There is something to be said about actually being able to hit what you shoot at time and time again.

Originally posted by angryamerican
Gotta go with the Sig Arms 556. There is something to be said about actually being able to hit what you shoot at time and time again.

Well I guess The statement above is not good enough, so I will flesh it it for every body, to help you understand my choice.

First the sig556 is a great weapon in every respect. It can be field stripped and cleaned in seconds and ready for action. A big plus in my book. It is light enough to be carried long term but not so light that it gets wild in fast shooting situations. To translate that. it comes back on target allowing a second accurate shot IF needed.

Its been said to me that the 7.62 would be a better choice for a all purpose survival rifle because of knock down power at range. This may be true in a very general sense.

The reason I say a general sense is the 7.62 in my area is useless. Longer range with power to spare very true. My area doesn't have long range opening's Any ware I may Bug out to his heavily wooded areas. If I hucker down at home again heavily wooded. If I'm at work not heavily wooded but heavy on the buildings. not a lot of long range shot opportunity. Lets be honest here how many of you have ever been shot?

Lets give a example here. your huffing threw the woods or open fields doesn't matter for this argument. Suddenly blam you take one in the chest. You are FOB regardless of what it is a 556 or 762. If its a 762 you've got seconds to live if its a 556 you've got maybe a minute. There is so many people out there who are classic over killers. I want this gun because it has the most power the longest range.

The most power is no good if you cant hit the target in the first shot. We all miss folks some less then others but WE ALL MISS. Now you have missed and your heaver round rifle has just cost you seconds to get it back on target to try for another shot. The sig on the other hand if you miss drops right back on target almost of its own accord. Ime not kidding either. This was one of the greatest fire arms Ive ever had the pleasure of shooting. This rifle has had every aspect tuned and perfected.

See the video link below. Watch the end of the barrel while this guy is plucking away. you will see what I mean. it comes back on target, I cant say that enough.

DownRange videos

The sigs 16 inch barrel is not the longest barrel in the world but look at the situation you might find your self in. Lets flush out my earlier example. about walking thru the woods or open field and takeing one in the chest only view it from the shooters point.

You are huckerd down in your chosen area and see the bad guys coming. You get in your vantage point and get on target and take the shot with your new 762. blam the guy goes down only to be replaced by another one buy the time you have a bead on him he has you and your done. Why because your 762 put you way off target after the shot.

Now same situation with the 556. Blam first guy drops second guy replaces blam he drops to. Why because the 556 came back on target immediately. you go back to your family instead of being worm food like the two suckers laying in the bush. Mostly dead and fading fast.

The fire arm must be matched to you and your location. Lots of large-ish open spaces great take the 7.62 I would. But they don't fit well IMO as a all purpose survival/Defense rifle.

One of my all time favorite rifles in the world is the M14 which uses the 7.62. Great guns cant say enough about them except I wish the dam muzzle didn't rise so much. Remember from some of my earlier post I own several M14's There is a reason why the US army replace the M14. It has fair accuracy it has a lot of knock down power at distance but it gets out of control. In combat we miss. Our ability to get back on target can save our lives.
Match the Gun to your situwation you think you may find your self in.

AA
Just out of curiosity how is a .223 superior over 7.62 NATO and specially 7.61x39 in a wooded setting?
Finnish army tested he .223 (5.56) during the late '80s but decided to stay with the trusty 7.62x39 for two major reason. Stability of the projectile when going through foliage and penetration of hard/semihard cover like trees. The study showed conclusively that heavier 7.62mm bullets are more accurate and reliable in Forrest conditions, despite 7.62x39s rainbow like trajectory.

Dog gone it North wolf I did it again. I am sorry I should have said that it is all based on my life experience and my preference. I usually try to add statements like IMO or My opinion only. I didn't so for that I was wrong.

I will however stand behind My opinion strongly see quote below for the jist of my opinion.

it has a lot of knock down power at distance but it gets out of control(I mean muzzle rise not projectile). In combat we miss. Our ability to get back on target can save our lives.

I don't care how powerful the weapon if you miss and or there is more then one bad guy your ability to get back on target is all important over firepower. Spray and prey is fine but as you and I both know its not really the best way. The SIG's ability to drop back to home with no hesitation and just the over all balance of that fire arm is incredible. I should clarify that I am not dis'ing 7.62 or encouraging anybody to give up 7.62 but the question was basically the best firearm for the job. IMO the sig556 is the best firearm in my hands for any job.

If you have had the training I believe you have had then you probably don't miss much but isn't it nice to know if you do miss you can squeeze another round off immediately after the first and have it be on target. instead of up and to the right or left. Watch the video if you haven't already. you will see what I mean

I am also basing my opinion on the fact I have shot the sig556 so the personal experience is there as well. With in another few months I will have saved enough to buy my own. Mean while I continue to shoot my friends. It is a great firearm that I cant weight to add to my collection. I will never give up my minies but they do not have the fire-ability as the sig. Don't even get me started on the M16 and the AK's. Hate both with a passion. Full combat rifles In My opinion have no place in a survival arsenal.