Another Piece of Proof Why We Never Made It To The Moon!

This one is weird.....

The sun moves position and you see a second ghostly astronaut... maybe behind the screen?

video.google.co.uk...

Originally posted by zorgon
This one is weird.....

The sun moves position and you see a second ghostly astronaut... maybe behind the screen?

Where do you see the Sun moving its position? I don't get your statement about that. The ghosting effect has to do with the slow frame rate of the camera. Which was 10 frames per second, which is less than half the speed of tv and movies (which run at 24 - 30 fps).

EDIT:

Oh I think I know what you're calling the 'Sun'. It's that bright white part on the opposite side of the ladder right? That's Niel Armstrong standing there as he helps to guide Buzz Aldrin down the ladder and then moves past him a few seconds later. You should note the direction of the LM and Armstrong's shadow, The Sun light is coming from the far left of the camera. Not from in front.

[edit on 22-12-2006 by jra]

zorgon says:
Well one of the reasons you have difficulty finding info is that google and searches in general work best with knowing the right questions to ask. I think the general public not having the knowledge to begin with, don't know what to ask.

Static, while there, is not the major concern...

The term NASA uses is Plasma Interactions

Zorgon,
No, my post has nothing to do with Plasma Interactions. I am truely curious as to how the ISS deals with the build-up of electrical charges while floating through space. I think static charges would be a tremendous concern, since there is no way to "ground" the station using the traditional method of literally linking it with the earth.

I was curious if my "layman's" undersdtanding of how NASA handles this issue is correct.
.

jra,

Good explanation on that video, but I think you missed the point of zorgon's hoax theory.

I believe (zorgon - correct me if I'm wrong) that he's saying there should not be two astronauts visible in that video.

Zorgon, as jra said, the guy coming down the ladder is Buzz Aldrin, not Neil Armstrong. Armstrong was already on the moon, thus we can see him walk by, behind Aldrin (and no, not behind the screen).

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

No, my post has nothing to do with Plasma Interactions. I am truely curious as to how the ISS deals with the build-up of electrical charges while floating through space. I think static charges would be a tremendous concern, since there is no way to "ground" the station using the traditional method of literally linking it with the earth.

I was curious if my "layman's" undersdtanding of how NASA handles this issue is correct.
.

If you actually would read that document I linked you to, it explains it perfectly and has a lot of info on the ISS...

Static electricity... plasma discharges are all related... its simply a matter of degree Lightning is both... static builds up in the clouds by ice particle rubbing together [NASA news release]

Space vehicles also collect a charge but they are moving through the ionosphere.

I realize the document is not easy for a layman to understand, but try...your answers are there.

And please just look up Plasma Lightning.. to understand the relation of plasma and static electricity.

Originally posted by jra

Oh I think I know what you're calling the 'Sun'. It's that bright white part on the opposite side of the ladder right? That's Niel Armstrong standing there as he helps to guide Buzz Aldrin down the ladder and then moves past him a few seconds later. You should note the direction of the LM and Armstrong's shadow, The Sun light is coming from the far left of the camera. Not from in front.

Excellent observation. I grant you the location of the sun by the shadow.
So perhaps you can explain to me what the bright light is and why it moves?

Buzz on the ladder ..yes I know.. Niel isn't carrying a flashlight... so please explain the second light source to me

[edit on 22-12-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Good explanation on that video, but I think you missed the point of zorgon's hoax theory.

Yes he did good observation

I believe (zorgon - correct me if I'm wrong) that he's saying there should not be two astronauts visible in that video.

No I know its Buzz on the ladder... BTW he is a very interesting character
but if JRA is correct on the location of the sun... what is the bright light behind them?

(and no, not behind the screen).

You sure about that? Look at the "ghost" image... look at the line of the horizon of the moon... it is clearly visible across the waist of the "ghost"

But I want to know about the second light if you please... thanks

but if JRA is correct on the location of the sun... what is the bright light behind them?

The bright light I saw (right between Buzz and the ladder) was obviously the sun reflecting off Armstrong, shining from off-screen left. You can see Armstrong's shadow moving at the exact time you see the bright light.

You sure about that? Look at the "ghost" image... look at the line of the horizon of the moon... it is clearly visible across the waist of the "ghost"

I'm not a video expert, but the line to me looks like "video burn-in" of the bright moon. In fact, both astronauts had this line go through them in this image, especially through Buzz's leg as he stepped down the ladder, and through Buzz's torso as he begins to turn away from the ladder at the end of the video. If the moon really was just a "screen" behind the astronauts, the why would Buzz be behind it when he's obviously in front of it, climbing down the ladder.

I think the video "burn-in" explanation makes the most sense (IMO). If you think it's something more sinister than that, please explain what you think it could be.

Originally posted by zorgon
but if JRA is correct on the location of the sun... what is the bright light behind them?

Like SGiP said, it's Armstrong, You can see his shadow there at the very beginning. He's just standing there watching and helping Buzz down (since Buzz probably couldn't look down to see his feet and where the ladder ended)

Armstrong also took some shots from there too.

www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...

AH! Very good observations. Nothing amiss.

The light source moves.. If the sun is where jra says it is..granted the shadows bear this out... what is the second light?..
The "ghost" Astronaut that really looks like he is behind a screen. Look at his waist... the moon horizon is still there...
The conversation...
The practicing of the the step... Buzz is down.. then jumps up again...
The difficulty of the "jump" He falls once...
The gravity is wrong... most likely on a wire...

looks to me like like Niel bumped the light source behind the screen...
I could be totally wrong though... Just a vivid imagination... or maybe too much eggnog

Hmmmm wonder if its a training clip someone is passing off as moon footage...?
Nah who would do that... silly notion

June 21, 2005 - Over 270 Apollo 11 training images added to Apollo Image Gallery, most of which are previously unpublished. Several Apollo 17 photos also added. May 15, 2005 - 123 images from Apollo 15 B&W film magazine 85/LL added to Apollo Image Gallery, completing this magazine.

TRAINING PHOTO GALLERY Added June 2005

[edit on 22-12-2006 by zorgon]

i guess this is bringing an old thred back from the dead, but oh well.

How can there be NO STARS in ANY of the pictures? I agree that the type of lense and speed of the camera wouldn't pick up small stars, but there is not one single star in any of the pictures that I have seen. That means there is no star bright enough in the sky to be picked up by the cameras they were using? Very difficult to believe.

And that video of the "transparent" figure walking up.....how can everything else in the shot look normal/visible and the "ghost" seem like "13 Alabama Ghosts and Jeffery"?

a perfect example of hearing wat u want to hear

Originally posted by JD21477
How can there be NO STARS in ANY of the pictures? I agree that the type of lense and speed of the camera wouldn't pick up small stars, but there is not one single star in any of the pictures that I have seen. That means there is no star bright enough in the sky to be picked up by the cameras they were using? Very difficult to believe.

Why is that difficult to believe? Do you have a digital camera or access to one? If so, go out on a clear night and try to take some photos of the stars. If you can adjust the shutter speed manually, try taking some long exposure shots and then take some quicker ones with the shutter set to a day time speed like, 1/250 of a second or faster at around 100iso or 200iso and see how many stars show up. The Astronauts on the Moon were shooting with daytime settings.

You might be interested to know that Venus is visible in some photos from Apollo 14. Here is the thread where it was found. More specifically in the post made by "Data Cable" near the bottom of the first page.

Originally posted by bramski

Originally posted by thedangler
um there are some pictures with the earth in the background my only problem with the pictures is that the earth is way to small in the phots.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by thedangler]

Way too small? I can't find one single picture of an Astronaut with the Earth in the backdrop. Plenty of moon lander pics with a big giant earth beaming in the backdrop though.

earth from moon pics



If you can find any pics of Astronauts with the Earth in the backdrop I'd be very pleased to see them, no matter how small the Earth is in them.

I can't find any pictures with the lunar lander in front of the earth while on the moon. Nor should I be able to find such pictures. Do you know where the earth was in the moon's sky during the extravehicular activities? The same place it always is as seen from the landing sites, high up! The moon rotates at the same rate as it orbits the earth, so from the moon, the earth appears to sit at about the same place in the sky at all times. There is no "earthrise" or "earthset" from just about any place on the moon (except the extreme edges as seen from earth due to libration). There was never any opportunity to get a picture of any astronaut with earth on the horizon. If you can find such a picture you've just proven a hoax, but since no such picture exists... its absence is proof of a real mission. The pictures you've found with the earth on the horizon were taken from lunar orbit, not from the surface.

Originally posted by JD21477
How can there be NO STARS in ANY of the pictures? I agree that the type of lense and speed of the camera wouldn't pick up small stars, but there is not one single star in any of the pictures that I have seen. That means there is no star bright enough in the sky to be picked up by the cameras they were using? Very difficult to believe.

As mentioned directly above, this was due to the exposure settings on the cameras being set for daytime pictures. If you have an SLR (especially a film camera) like the ones used on the mission and you set it for daytime settings you won't get any stars either. The exact same effect can be seen in every daylit shot of the international space station during a spacewalk... no stars there either, so does that mean the ISS is a hoax?

Originally posted by ngchunter
I can't find any pictures with the lunar lander in front of the earth while on the moon. Nor should I be able to find such pictures.

You are right that the Earth will more or less stay in the same spot in the Lunar sky, but it won't necessarily be high up. It depends where you are on the Moon that determines its location in the sky.

Here are some photos from Apollo 17.

www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...

There are many more like those.

Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by ngchunter
I can't find any pictures with the lunar lander in front of the earth while on the moon. Nor should I be able to find such pictures.

You are right that the Earth will more or less stay in the same spot in the Lunar sky, but it won't necessarily be high up. It depends where you are on the Moon that determines its location in the sky.

Here are some photos from Apollo 17.

www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...
www.hq.nasa.gov...

There are many more like those.

It should be fairly high up in all of the apollo missions though since they all had to go to fairly equatorial locations on the "near" side. In the pictures from 17 you can tell that it's fairly high; two of the shots are basically taken "looking up" from the astronaut/flag/LEM.

Nonetheless, you've provided the proof that was said to be impossible, an astronaut next to the earth in the picture. Should be interesting to see what kind of refutation the disbelievers will try to mount on that.

[edit on 2-1-2008 by ngchunter]

I dont wanna cause any arguments but they are speaking in hypothetical terms most likely because astronauts would not have had equipment to test for static discharge. after all why would they have expected it? until then they were not there.