Yes Gaza....
I have seen these video's and have actually had the opportunity to officially analyze them with some collegues.
Video are great for showing what you want your audience to see. Please don't get me wrong here, all militaries do this. The'system(s)' are impressive and as per each video, which I have seen countless times before, they are quite impressive in practice.
The question that comes to mind each and every time I view these video's, is what any military advisor or analyst would ask: Will the system be as effective under battlefield conditions? WIll the system work as 'advertized'? Will the system work on a continual basis under battlefield conditions? There are a host more that can be asked.

Since there are no reported cases of this system being utilized under battlefield conditions, I will agree that the system functions, as per the videos, and that the system seemingly is an effective MBT protection device(s).

Currently, to public knowledge, the US is not working on anything to this degree. "Other" systems are currently being worked on for the upcoming A3 series....that is all I will say and mention.

Again, SectorG., great information and thank you again for posting the video. They appear to be what I have already seen before. Great job and great job in defending your position. I apologize for my being so forward with you on this, but you responded and defended well my friend.

As to the "Black Eagle", everything I have read and been reading still claims and confirms that this particular MBT (Chiorny Oriel/Black Eagle and Uralvagonzavod) are lacking the necessary funds to be moved to production and are still considered 'prototypes'. I would be interested in reading or hearing otherwise.

As to the best MBT in the world.......
Again, I stress that there are a number of them that are fairly equal of each other, excluding packages and mods and some slight differences:
* Merkava Mk-3 BAZ/Mk-4
* Al-Khalid Tank
* T-95 series/T-90 series
* Leopard 2 A5 series
* British Challenger 2/II series
* Sweden's Stridsvagn 122
* South Korea's K1A1
* M1A2 SEP series
(NOTE: these are in no particular order).

I think it all boils down to the tech, IT, Fire and control systems, and crew training.


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 21-11-2003 by Seekerof]

i was just reading about the future a1a3's ,i believe they are in development with no time scale on when or if they will be implemented but they say they need too so they can stay current with the russian tanks.

How about the future combat system. A part of this program is to develop a new tank. I believe that they will be out around 2009-2011.

they say the new ones will have lazer guided missles on board and a new type of artillery shell because the current ones can injure freindly soldiers within 50 meters of the muzzle..

Those are some good looking tanks. Thanks for the picks.

I'm no expert on tanks and i dont pretend to be, but what some of you have seemed to forget is that more important than the technology is the training of the soldiers and their ability to control and command these kinds of heavy weaponry. The United States, by far, has the best trained, equipped, and capable soldiers in the world. Another thing that some seem to forget is the capablilty of a country to mass produce and continually improve high dollar weaponry. This, the United States has as well. The US also has the most advanced, and well funded, research and development labs in the world. It all boils down to training and greens. For instance the if the US and Russian tanks ever faced off(doubtful) the US would have a clear advantage in numbers and effieciency of battlefield movements. It wouldnt really matter how good a tank is if their out manned and out maneuvered.

As you might know the americans used it in the iraq war and the Challenger 1 is some times used as a training tank

But i don't really know

Russian tanks are great till you start firing on them

Cheap stalinist steel is not something you place your life in, those babies brew up quickly after one shot, remember the autoloaders to speed the time up? well they tend to autoload the gunners into the rigs and kill them

What kept the warsaw pact storming over europe?
SUPERIOR WESTERN TECHNOLOGY.

Best tank... Merkava or Challenger 2

Originally posted by Nerdling
Cheap stalinist steel is not something you place your life in, those babies brew up quickly after one shot, remember the autoloaders to speed the time up? well they tend to autoload the gunners into the rigs and kill them

...lol

Well, I can't contribute to this weapons thread as well as the infamous AK vs M16 thread, but heres what I think.

The M1-A1 Abrams SuperTank has and will be always remembered as one of the best tanks. Ever. Period.

Because of its speed,firepower,agility,etc etc.

Now then, for this "Black Eagle" tank..a couple of things.

1) Has it been battle tested?
2) If not, then we will have to see before you label it "the best"

Im sure, if the Russians come up with the best tank in the world, the U.S. will be closely behind to make a bigger and better tank. And so will the rest of the world.

But, surely, labeling something the best, is a matter of opinion.

My two cents, enjoy

-wD

Originally posted by Nerdling
Russian tanks are great till you start firing on them

Cheap stalinist steel is not something you place your life in, those babies brew up quickly after one shot, remember the autoloaders to speed the time up? well they tend to autoload the gunners into the rigs and kill them

What kept the warsaw pact storming over europe?
SUPERIOR WESTERN TECHNOLOGY.

Best tank... Merkava or Challenger 2

is that just a random comment or do you have facts to PROVE it?



It gives them a strong punch and probably a minor edge over the M1A2 unless we get the first shot – in which case they’re dead already. Russian tanks employ sufficiently decent ERA to avoid a one-shot kill and can probably fool most guided missiles. In that sense, they are very effective


A British ‘Challenger II’ is like an ‘Abrams’ with only marginally less communications ability, a crew probably equally as good, and armor meant to counter HEAT warheads, not SABOTs. In actuality, both vehicles work equally as well. Here we have what more or less amounts to a tie unless you want to get strictly into the combined-arms realm, in which the U.S. probably takes all.

As you can see the Challenger and Abram are about the same but Abram is a bit better.

In my other find above I prove you wrong about Black Eagle.

I also prove you wrong that Russian Tanks ARE Good.

They are not make from what you said they are made from.

Anybody else have any best tanks with specs and whats good about it?

Originally posted by Russian

Originally posted by Nerdling
Russian tanks are great till you start firing on them

Cheap stalinist steel is not something you place your life in, those babies brew up quickly after one shot, remember the autoloaders to speed the time up? well they tend to autoload the gunners into the rigs and kill them

What kept the warsaw pact storming over europe?
SUPERIOR WESTERN TECHNOLOGY.

Best tank... Merkava or Challenger 2

is that just a random comment or do you have facts to PROVE it?



It gives them a strong punch and probably a minor edge over the M1A2 unless we get the first shot – in which case they’re dead already. Russian tanks employ sufficiently decent ERA to avoid a one-shot kill and can probably fool most guided missiles. In that sense, they are very effective


A British ‘Challenger II’ is like an ‘Abrams’ with only marginally less communications ability, a crew probably equally as good, and armor meant to counter HEAT warheads, not SABOTs. In actuality, both vehicles work equally as well. Here we have what more or less amounts to a tie unless you want to get strictly into the combined-arms realm, in which the U.S. probably takes all.

As you can see the Challenger and Abram are about the same but Abram is a bit better.

In my other find above I prove you wrong about Black Eagle.

I also prove you wrong that Russian Tanks ARE Good.

They are not make from what you said they are made from.

Thats right, russian tanks look wonderful on paper, just wait till you see those puppies try to fight, its like a hilarious ballet.

I've seen russian tanks being combat tested and its a beautiful thing to watch.... right before they get hit in the neck with a SABOT and the turret gets blown right off, killing everyone aboard naturally.

Stalin era steel...i still laugh at that

Call me when they scrape together the cash to buy the wheels alone. The russians like to release their concept designs just so someone may fund them, many western companies/contractors do not do this in any shape or form due to competition, russian businesses still operate on the "any publicity is good publicity" clause"

For every russian design theres a nato version to counter or overpower it, i'd personally like to see the concept designs we come up with.

Russia sucks ergo we rule

Man your right. I have herd stories of M-1s shooting through two turrets of Iraqi tanks. I have also herd of M-1s shooting through hills to get to Iraq tanks. You want to know the kicker, these stories are all true.

Originally posted by jetsetter
Man your right. I have herd stories of M-1s shooting through two turrets of Iraqi tanks. I have also herd of M-1s shooting through hills to get to Iraq tanks. You want to know the kicker, these stories are all true.

I give the proof.


I gave the proof that Russian tanks are good even in combat but all you people say is Russian tanks suck with no proof!

It just you moronic opoion!

Gaza what tanks are those.

And yes nerdling is just a Russian technology hater.

Maybe he just doesnt like it cause its better then most.

Russian technology is very interesting, they'll probably be the first to create genetic super soldiers.

It's too bad the government there is a bit restrictive though...