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Biggest criminal conspiracy in the US ever? Please discuss

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posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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The new movie from Aaron Russo states, that

the income tax is illegal, because the US constitution doesn't allow a direct tax on the wages of american workers (income is profit from corporate activity according to the supreme court)

The 16th amendment (income tax law) was refused by the supreme court

The IRS can't show a law that requires ordinary workers to pay income tax. They admitted that the income tax is a voluntary tax.

The illegal income tax is ca. 900 - 1 trillion $ a year
The legal corporate tax is only 200 billion $ per year

A big part of the income tax money is used to pay the interest rates of the US debt to the private Federal Reserve Bank and its shareholders

etc etc.

I can't mention all the arguments here, please watch the movie on google video . I'd really like to discuss that here. Is this the biggest criminal conspiracy in the US or not?

video.google.com...




posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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This is one of the most amazing things I've ever heard. When I have the time, I'm definitely going to sit down and watch that video. My dad (who worked for the IRS for his entire career) mentioned something about that subject some time ago (although, I can't remember for the life of me on which side he was in favor of, but...without taxes, he would've been out of a job. yes?). This...this is big! Bigger than...well...it's pretty freakin' big. I'll report back after having viewed the movie.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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someone should show wesley snipes the movie since hes going to court about it. and if he wins i hope its public and everyone realizes what it means..

i think income tax is a good thing only if its to help the country not the private banking cartel



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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Yeah lets all stop paying taxes.

Pretty soon your would find out what it would be like to have all this extra money in your hip pocket. More money competing for the same products ? that sounds like the start of Uber-Inflation.

Then the systems start to fail like hospitals, roads and other vital Govt. run institutions you rely on every day.

The simple fact remains you have to work for your Country and give a little back to the Govt. its wrong how they do it and justify it but it has to be done for the sake of keeping a working system working.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:49 PM
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I live in canada so, this has nothing to do with me but, this is still pretty big. Could effect dept realtions with other countries.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution does allow Congress to collect taxes, because of Amendment XVI - "Status of Income Tax Clarified," ratified in February 3rd, 1913.


"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."


Guys, not paying your income taxes would be a very bad thing. The IRS are serious when they want you to pay your taxes. They do carry guns, you know?



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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Actually, I asked my dad about this very same subject earlier tonight over dinner. His reply was "yeah, there've been a group of people fighting this for years. We had files on them".
Yikes!
Y'know when a former treasury agent says "we have files on them", well...you know that's definitely NOT a good thing!


on a side note:
you Messiah! Where've you been bro? Haven't heard from you in a while.
Toss me an email, let me know how you're doing.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Yeah but the income is not your salary, it's the incomes of the corporations. Watch the movie, then discuss.



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 10:19 AM
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After watching the movie I did a little research about wheter the income tax is legal or not... The result is very interesting

The income tax was rejected in 1894 because it is a direct unaportionned tax, thus unconstitutional

From 1894-1916 there was no income tax, because of the direct /indirect tax controversy

1916: 16th amendment

The government / IRS says that the 16th amendment legalizes the income tax. They say the income tax must be not be apportionned, thus it gives the IRS a new power of taxation. The income tax is a "special" tax that is neither direct nor indirect.

The supreme court said that this is wrong (Brushaber case 1916). The 16th amendment grants no new power of taxation. The 16th amendment only says that the income tax is an indirect tax.

That's it!
The income tax seems to be legal - theoretically. BUT only if they admit that it is a normal indirect tax. The income tax is not different from indirect taxes on gasoline or tabacco! But what exactly is the privilege they are taxing with the income tax. The gasoline tax is for driving a car and for building roads, the tabacco tax is for the privilege of smoking. What is the privilege of an ordinary working american?



posted on Dec, 17 2006 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by ephrin
The income tax seems to be legal - theoretically. BUT only if they admit that it is a normal indirect tax. The income tax is not different from indirect taxes on gasoline or tabacco! But what exactly is the privilege they are taxing with the income tax. The gasoline tax is for driving a car and for building roads, the tabacco tax is for the privilege of smoking. What is the privilege of an ordinary working american?


16th Amendment


[T]he Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged.13


Furthermore...


Income Subject to Taxation

Building upon definitions formulated in cases construing the Corporation Tax Act of 1909, the Court initially described income as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined, inclusive of the profit gained through a sale or conversion of capital assets; in the following array of factual situations it subsequently applied this definition to achieve results that have been productive of extended controversy.


There is no "gain" from labor. Income from your labored hours is a direct exchange... hours traded for pay. An even exchange is not a gain. Typically overlooked by the "under-educated."


Aaron did a great job providing information in his video.


[edit on 12/17/2006 by Infoholic]



posted on Dec, 17 2006 @ 12:28 PM
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hi infoholic,

of course there is no gain form labor.

But you have to keep in mind that for the admiralty /maritime law (that came on land in the US in 1845) there are no human beings. There are only persons and a person is nothing else than a corporation. If you (the human being) use your body (brain / muscles) to earn money, than you (the person / corporation) make profits ! Thus you have a taxable income..



posted on Dec, 17 2006 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by ephrin
hi infoholic,

of course there is no gain form labor.

But you have to keep in mind that for the admiralty /maritime law (that came on land in the US in 1845) there are no human beings. There are only persons and a person is nothing else than a corporation. If you (the human being) use your body (brain / muscles) to earn money, than you (the person / corporation) make profits ! Thus you have a taxable income..


I'm not exactly sure what you're smoking, but send me some.


Sorry, a "person", of the 'singular' terminology is not a corporation. By definition, a corporation is, at minimum, a "group" of persons. Look it up

A person can in fact be part of a corporation. The income tax, according to the constitution, makes it clear it is a corporate tax. I will not waste my time spoon feeding you, so go here to read each and every single supreme court case that deals with the "Federal Income Tax" law that you seem to be supporting.

My opinion, and you can take it for such... you are wrong in your view, and the proof laid before you proves you to be. The Fed will lose one day, and when that day comes, I wish to be the first in line to shake your hand and congratulate you on a glorious defeat.

Have a great day.

[edit on 12/17/2006 by Infoholic]



posted on Dec, 17 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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hi infoholic,

I'm on your side :-)

I just wanna tell you about the lunacy of the law system.




One of the ways Governments and other regulators have tricked you into thinking you must follow their rules, is to create for themselves an "artificial-person / corporation" who is not you, but whom the Government has fooled you into thinking is you.
But, so as not to violate your fundamental rights, they also have provide recognition in law for another legal entity called a "natural-person" (simply meaning a human-being in the law) with which most of your fundamental rights are still intact. So when you interact with the law, you may be represented as an artificial or natural person - you choose.

This concept of an "artificial-person", a legally obligated entity, that appears to be you, but in fact is not you, is a little difficult to grasp at first, but if you follow through this site, you will understand.

Once the Government creates an "artificial-person" that simulates you (i.e. appears to be the same as you from your point of view), but is actually a contrivance of government laws and regulations -- then they've got you, so to speak. And if you fill out paperwork and sign documents as if you were this artificial-person (create contracts), then they can make you totally subservient to all their rules and regulations:

Make you believe you are obligated to pay taxes,
Make you believe that you have to obtain a driver's licence,
Make you believe that you have to work as an Employee.


SOURCE: www.natural-person.ca...



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 12:04 AM
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There's a copy of Russo's film on my server, as a mirror site, in case it disappears.

After putting together the on-line (free) book, "Perfidy: Anthology of Lies," I'm not surprised at any of this at all.

Help yourself. 200 pages with 70 photos Fascinating copy.

"Perfidy" the free on-line book

Now you can see how all these conspiracies flow together like a river.

: ) Em



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 12:24 AM
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why do so many people bitch and moan like little babies about income tax?

Jesus..
look at your roads,
your sewage..

look at the quality of your infrastrucutre..

you think this is just free?

Yes there probably is some loop hole from abraham lincons days that 'technically' says they cant take your heard earned money.

but look at your life now, look at the abilities you have....

why cry like a friggen baby.... its only money.

atleast you HAVE the chance to pay taxes and make your country livable..
I can think of one country that is in ruins... and has no hope of being able to pay taxes to better their sewage/electricity/water quality of life.


You want to live in such a nice enviroment yet not have to provide the funds for it ?



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 12:54 AM
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According to Russo, the revenue from income taxes ONLY pays the interest on the national debt -- nothing else.

Everything else is paid for either by Congressional legislation, by floating bonds, or at the state or local levels.

Schools are paid for by taxing local school districts; and highways are funded by floating bonds and/or charging tolls.

Where I live the influx of multi-national immigrants is both taxing the system and generating new taxes (sales and payroll). In this 240-unit complex, there are about half a dozen neighbors who speak English as their primary language. Many residents speak absolutely no English at all.

Nice people, just can't communicate with them. And they're very timid people, scared.

:shrug:



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
why do so many people bitch and moan like little babies about income tax?

Jesus..
look at your roads,
your sewage..

look at the quality of your infrastrucutre..

you think this is just free?

Yes there probably is some loop hole from abraham lincons days that 'technically' says they cant take your heard earned money.

but look at your life now, look at the abilities you have....

why cry like a friggen baby.... its only money.

atleast you HAVE the chance to pay taxes and make your country livable..
I can think of one country that is in ruins... and has no hope of being able to pay taxes to better their sewage/electricity/water quality of life.


You want to live in such a nice enviroment yet not have to provide the funds for it ?


Hey, Agit8dChop...

#1) You obviously don't have any education about how the United States Tax Structure works. You really should spend a lot more time in the local library reading about it. Study up, pal.

#2) As quoted from the Matrix movie, "Ignorance is Bliss", isn't it?


Follow the little linky here for a beginning point to learn about the taxing infastructure of this nation.

Types of Taxes

You need to understand that local and state taxes paid are used to maintain our "infastructure". The complaints being held in this thread and others like it, are refering to the "Federal Income Tax" which is where 80% of said tax is paid directly to the Federal Reserve to pay the National Debt. The Federal Government is not Constitutionally bound to provide financing for our infastructure... the Federal Government is Constitutionally bound to "protect" "us", and that's it.

The roads you travel on, the hospitals you visit, the schools, the water plants, the municipal services....and libraries, of which you should visit more often (reading is fundemental) those are funded by local and state taxes.



Now, back on topic... the Federal Reserve is a group of international bankers *together* (of which the governing board is appointed by the President of the U.S.) which is...


The Federal Reserve System is a quasi-governmental banking system composed of (1) a presidentially-appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation; and (4) numerous private member banks, which own varying amounts of stock in the regional Federal Reserve Banks. source


Understand what "quasi-government" means...

Quasi: Having a likeness to something; resembling

See the obvious, the Federal Reserve is a group of "private" bankers...
The Federal Reserve is no more "federal" than Federal Express.


No one that questions what is being done by our government in the means of the "Federal" income tax is crying like a baby. We're the ones defending your ignorant rear-end from being raped and pillaged on a continual basis. Instead of knocking "us", maybe you need to post a "thank you".


God Bless America for which it stands!!!

[edit on 12/18/2006 by Infoholic]



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 03:51 AM
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Funny how this keeps comming up here

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...





posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by XyZeR
Funny how this keeps comming up here


And here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
and...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and...


we musn't need to list them all... it's just the simple fact that the "Federal Reserve" issue is an important one... but only one of many.



posted on Dec, 18 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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who is going to pay bush's salary ??

who is going to pay for the military?

money needed to build the space station! Money that goes into building tanks, planes, bombs and helicopters. Dont forget foreign aid and other stuff. All of that comes from Income tax!




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