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A Letter From a Soldier in Iraq

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posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
"they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads,


Semper, shame on you! This is a partial quote and blatant misrepresentation of Kerry's statement and I'm pretty sure you know that. He was relaying what he had been told by other veterans who actually committed the crimes! The actual quote was:



"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears..."
Kerry's Statement


He didn't fabricate these things, he was repeating what he had been told by those who committed the crimes. Seriously, I didn't expect this of you.

:shk:

As for the letter, it's one Marine. For every soldier who writes a letter like that there's another one who has just the opposite opinion. One opinion does not stand for the whole of the Marines...

Really, what is your purpose? To sling mud at John Kerry? Why?



df1

posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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lewrockwell.com

Philip Martin has been a Marine for 2 years. He is in the infantry (a "grunt"), and spent 7 months in the al-Anbar province of Iraq. He went on more than 180 combat patrols in and outside of the city of Fallujah, where he was hit with 2 IEDs (luckily never injured) and was involved in a number of firefights. He is currently stationed in Twentynine Palms, CA, and due to return to Iraq for a second deployment in April 2007. He is 21-years-old.


Martin remarks,

I'm sick and tired of this patriotic, nationalistic and fascist crap. I stood through a memorial service today for a young Marine that was killed in Iraq back in April. During this memorial a number of people spoke about the guy and about his sacrifice for the country. How do you justify 'sacrificing' your life for a war which is not only illegal, but is being prosecuted to the extent where the only thing keeping us there is one man's power, and his ego. A recent Marine Corps intelligence report that was leaked said that the war in the al-Anbar province is unwinnable. It said that there was nothing we could do to win the hearts and minds, or the military operations in that area. So I wonder, why are we still there? Democracy is not forced upon people at gunpoint. It's the result of forward thinking individuals who take the initiative and risks to give their fellow countrymen a better way of life.

When I joined I took an oath. In that oath I swore to protect the Constitution of the United States. I didn't swear to build democracies in countries on the other side of the world under the guise of "national security." I didn't join the military to be part of an Orwellian ("1984") war machine that is in an obligatory war against whoever the state deems the enemy to be so that the populace can be controlled and riled up in a pro-nationalistic frenzy to support any new and oppressive law that will be the key to destroying the enemy.


I left to wonder how many other soldiers share Martin's views, but lack the courage or writing skills to express his sentiments? My bet is that most soldiers in their heart of hearts feel like Martin. Obviously kerry was in error, all of our troops are not stupid...



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Only the Traitors my friend.. Only those..

I can say this YES!!! Without hesitation...

I have two combat tours with the UNITED STATES MARINES. Watched friends die and helped dig their bodies out of the rubble with my bare hands. So I have EVERY right to say this disgrace to the Marines should never have been allowed out of Basic. But I guess one has to slip through every now and then.

For Soldiers, TRUE Soldiers, there is NO GREATER GLORY, then to die for your Country. NONE, ZERO. ZIP..

Those that do not understand this, I would never expect you too. It is far and above what those that can not understand will ever be capable of.

Sure there are Soldiers that write letters like this. Exactly like there are Cops on the take, and crooked Politicians.

Semper



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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So, the guy who wrote your letter (the one you agree with) is a TRUE soldier, full of glory, home, God and apple pie... and anyone who would write a letter to the contrary is a traitor, on the take or crooked?

I see...

Semper, what have you to say in response to my first post?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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BH,

I am a Soldier. A Marine in fact. I think like, act like and come complete with camo underwear.

I know what is expected of Marines, what we expect being Marines. The Honor, Courage and values inherent in TRUE MARINES.

That being said, YES!!! I can say that 100%, no hesitation, no quandaries at all. A TRUE Marine never "comes out" against his Commander in Chief." FACT!!!
It's not done!!! EVER....

Maybe by the "lesser" services, but NOT A MARINE....

"Marines die, that's what we are here for. But the MARINE CORP lives forever, that means you live forever." (Courtesy of Full Metal Jacket)

Every Marine knows this for a fact. If your not willing to SERVE, 100% completely, join the Peace Corps or something else.

As for Kerry's quote...

BH, You know I am not stupid and truly find it distasteful that the uninitiated expect me to be stupid enough to believe he was not ONCE AGAIN slamming the military.


Semper

[edit on 12/11/2006 by semperfortis]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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I agree and disagree with a lot of everything everyone has posted on this thread so far.

Propaganda is just that, propaganda...lies or mis-truths to lead someone to believe one certain way in order to fool someone to have a false sense of security in order to brain wash them.

Is George W Bush using propaganda...I do not honestly know that.

Was John Kerry using propaganda...I do not honestly know that.

I do know this, myself, and those people around Me I trust...we're watching every single thing every single politician is doing, saying, and or selling.

I'm not buying any of it.

I stand for My country, the freedoms I have and have earned, not for those politicians on Capitol Hill...I don't care if they do run the government of the country I live in. I served My time, there's no denying that.

I will support My country, I will support My troops in a war I do not believe in, in a country I don't give a rats behind about, on a continent I could care less about...but I won't buy the political horse manure that's fed to Me, either on a little teeny tiny spoon, or the force fed crud that's being forced down My throat.

I am a Patriot, I am a citizen, and I am a human being.

I support no politicians because politicians are professional liars...they're good liars, they get paid to tell lies.



[edit on 11-12-2006 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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OK. But what does that have to do with your incomplete quote of Kerry's? You said he made those things up when he was just relaying information.

And I don't mean the recent quote. I mean the one he made before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Please see the post at the top of this page.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:15 PM
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Incomplete or not he said them...

He was very simply in country a short time, on a fast boat...

Be that as it may, he made all encompassing statements attempting to cast dispersions on his "Supposed" Fellow Soldiers. (Although I am SURE they don't feel the same way, "fellow" I mean)

Face it, the mans service was a disgrace. He attempts to make up for this by casting those same dispersions again and again. It is truly a very common psychological phenomenon to insert blame where oneself is feeling guilty for usually a completely unrelated incident.

He is a fraud and disgrace to his country and the uniform he mistakenly wore.

Semper



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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And what was his reason for "relaying information"? Maybe you'd like something more current from him:


"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the – of – the historical customs, religious customs," Kerry said Sunday. "Whether you like it or not ... Iraqis should be doing that."
www.worldnetdaily.com...

Don't bother slamming the source - it just happened to be the first one I found. It's a fact he said that on Face The Nation.

I hate Kerry because all of his rhetoric is for personal, political gain. There is a quote from him that I have stashed away somewhere. To paraphrase it:

"I had to decide whether it would be politically expedient to be for the war or against the war in VietNam"



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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Dude! What are you talking about?

If my neighbor said that I murdered someone, and you quoted just this part:



by BH

I murdered someone


Then claimed, "hey, BH! You said you murdered someone"

That's exactly what you're doing with Kerry's quote. You've removed the first part of it where he says he's repeating what the war criminals told him!

I can't believe you're doing this! I really thought you had more integrity.

Hate Kerry all you want. I'm not crazy about the guy either. But you're misrepresenting him by leaving out the most important part of the quote. If your hatred of him is blinding you this badly, I really don't think I can trust anything you say about him.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
BH,
That being said, YES!!! I can say that 100%, no hesitation, no quandaries at all. A TRUE Marine never "comes out" against his Commander in Chief." FACT!!!
It's not done!!! EVER....

[edit on 12/11/2006 by semperfortis]



Even when the Commander in Chief is himself a tratior, a philanderer, a lier, a reprobate, an alcoholic, guilty of felonys and misdemenors, Insane,or just plain stupid and could care less about the Marines he holds command over?

Unquestioning alligence and worship of authority isn't patriotic, it's insanity.
Remember Nazi Germany.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by whaaa]

[edit on 11-12-2006 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:26 PM
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jsobecky, I don't see anything wrong with the quote about terrorizing Iraqis. I happen to agree with him on that.

I'm not defending Kerry. I'm simply asking that he not be misquoted, as Semper has done.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by they see ALL
but the words from this soldier's letter made it sound like him being in iraq somehow affects our freedom here at home (which isn't the case, even though politicians may spin this fact around to make it seem like it does)...

am i right???


No, you're wrong. His exact words were:


Sincerely, Somebody who is watching his daughter grow up in photographs so that you can have the right to say whatever you want about him

This is true whether the soldier is on the front lines in Iraq or working in the mess hall in Wiesbaden.

Using your logic, and that of others who imply that only war veterans defend our freedoms, is like saying a policeman is only fighting crime when he is slapping the cuffs on someone.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Even when the Commander in Chief is himself a tratior, a philanderer, a lier, a reprobate, an alcoholic, guilty of felonys and misdemenors, Insane,or just plain stupid and could care less about the Marines he holds command over?
[edit on 11-12-2006 by whaaa]


No, you got it wrong....Kerry lost the election!



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
To take from one soldier, the respect and admiration for representing all soldiers is something I am not inwardly prepared to ever do. Those are not the things I want to go down in history as having stood for.


Are you saying in effect that because someone is a soldier or more specifically as you argue, a 'marine' that they are infallable? They cannot be questioned? Because they are doing their 'duty' and fighting the good fight?



The fact that we have a strong military, willing and able to combat evil anywhere in the world for the cause of all that is good and right; keeps us free. Yes. I believe that with all of my heart and soul.


You seriously believe that? A strong military fighting 'evil'?? You would probably come back with some pithy statement about how I can say or express my opinion because some soldier died for me to be able to do it and thus I should shut up and be ashamed for ever questioning the way things are. Don't you dare!

If this is the sort of lies you wrap yourself in to excuse the wholesale international carpet-bagging that has been US foreign policy since the 19th century and sooth your shame, then so be it.

You have every right to. Many foolish young men died to give that right.



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by whaaa
Even when the Commander in Chief is himself a tratior, a philanderer, a lier, a reprobate, an alcoholic, guilty of felonys and misdemenors, Insane,or just plain stupid and could care less about the Marines he holds command over?
[edit on 11-12-2006 by whaaa]


No, you got it wrong....Kerry lost the election!




I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone specificlly. Why are you?



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 08:16 PM
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It is truly a shame when alot of americans claim, "I am the TRUE patriot because I oppose the war," yet they slam the military by calling them, "war criminals." They somehow view these two statements as walking hand in hand, they do not. Making defeatist comments, accusing your own country's armed forces of war crimes, and down right equating them to terrorists. '

THIS IS WRONG!



posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 08:17 PM
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You have every right to. Many foolish young men died to give that right.


And did so far more proudly and with vastly more integrity than many on here that would spout such vitriolic rhetoric, having not enough integrity to shine the shoes of those that give and serve selflessly as is their calling.

Oh how amazing it is the number of you that think yourselves superior enough to make world decisions on wars. To blow out decisions that if you had ever worked hard enough to come into positions of power, might, just maybe have some weight.
Still you go on and on considering yourself worldly enough to decide what is right and what is wrong. Completely disregarding the 231 years of tradition and service by those same Marines you so easily make judgments about. Again having no experience to draw on.

As a Marine, yes, I have the right, the experience and have given my blood and sweat to be able to comment on the traitors that slip through and serve to further bring down the reputation of that institution I so love.

I am NOT in the "know", guess what? Neither are you... NOT IN ANY WAY!!! You read what ever the news media gives to you and form some screwy opinion based on what? You vast amount of experience in front of the computer? Calling names and falling in line with every kook and malcontent that pukes the same rhetoric you are so hungry for.

I serve. that is what I do. It is not a shameful profession. On the contrary, it is perhaps the most valiant of all professions. It is not my job to question why my Captain said shoot when I am in a sniper situation. It is my job to pull the trigger. That is because I am not there with the negotiator and do not have all the information available to him.
I do not have all the information available to the President. Neither do you. Yet you would pass judgment on him with only the media as your superb source of information. As you do with the war.

The truly sad thing is that you really do think you know it all!!! That your opinion is more valuable than mine, and more correct. The fact that I have been there, in no way diminishes your superiority complex toward me...
The fact that I am college educated, with 2 degrees still serves as no hindrance to you considering me either blind. stupid or just a dumb Marine that follows orders without the ability to think for myself...
Perhaps that best describes me. And you know what?

I have no problem with that description at all...

Thank you for your time...

Semper


df1

posted on Dec, 11 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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Philip Martin publicly stated his views without hiding behind a veil of anonymity, while his critics on this thread slander his name behind a fictional identity without making any attempt to contest martin's position.

I know who I trust.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 03:33 AM
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You may have missed my point entirely. There is no need for insults and I am sure we can pull an interesting discussion out of this.

Now, what I gather from what you are saying is that because I am a

kook and malcontent that pukes the same rhetoric you are so hungry for

I therefore do not have the right to post any opposition to the hoo-ha rhetoric you have been filling the forums and podcasts with recently. Is that the crux of your argument?

You see, I only see contradictions in what you are saying. In one breath you are telling us to bow our heads in reverence to the plebs foolish enough to go fight in a war for our ‘freedom’, yet when we try and exercise that ‘freedom’ by expressing an opinion we are beaten back by this type of rhetoric:



And did so far more proudly and with vastly more integrity than many on here that would spout such vitriolic rhetoric, having not enough integrity to shine the shoes of those that give and serve selflessly as is their calling.


So, because I did not choose to become a soldier and carpet-bag my way around the world I have no right to speak out about the rhetoric that you and others like come on to these forums spouting, glorifying war and the killing and maiming of others? Not on my watch!

Let’s not get into politics here, I’m talking about the age old problem of those in power getting those with no power to do their dirty work for them. It is the rhetoric you and others on this forum are so proud to spout that perpetuates this situation.



As a Marine, yes, I have the right, the experience and have given my blood and sweat to be able to comment on the traitors that slip through and serve to further bring down the reputation of that institution I so love.


Again, unless you are one who has ‘served’ you have no right to question me is the message I am getting here. Yet in the next breath you get all misty about how many of you have died for our ‘freedom’ to express these opinions. Notice the contradictions yet?

Also, I would take some offence if I was a US citizen to be called a traitor, but luckily I am not.



I serve. that is what I do. It is not a shameful profession. On the contrary, it is perhaps the most valiant of all professions.


I could think of far more valiant professions to be honest with you. Doctors, Nurses, Care-Professionals, you know, the people who selflessly help other people, not the likes of soldiers who need to wrap themselves in rhetoric and lies to get a decent nights sleep.

Soldiers do not help people! Sure, you are a necessary part of society but not an essential part. Your role is to defend your territory. Think of the last time the US was attacked. You didn’t do a very good job of defending your territory then did you? Why? Because you were off carpet-bagging elsewhere in the world on the behalf of big business!

Was one of your 2 degrees History? At the forefront of every incursion on foreign territory there were the marines. 231 years of being the muscle for the mob. Did they teach you anything past feeling pride for the blood spilled in each campaign or did you get an actual reason for the marines being there in the first place? You see if they told you the truth that it was in the name of making money that you went anywhere, would anyone with half a brain cell join the fight? I think not.

Instead it’s hoo-ha and I love the marine corp. Don’t question us or you dishonor the dead. You see, I do feel sorry for anyone who was tricked into the military. I know what they do. They take you, break you and mold you into something they can use. Am I wrong?

You see, most normal people wouldn’t go and do the things you have done. People have to have their personalities and egos hollowed out and the proud traditions of the corp poured in. That way, when the remnants of their humanity start to cry out in protest they can be smothered in hoo-ha and all the rest. When that fails at least you have this old chestnut to fall back on:



It is not my job to question why my Captain said shoot when I am in a sniper situation. It is my job to pull the trigger.


In other words, I didn’t do the bad thing, I was ordered to and that takes the sting out of it. Does that give you comfort? Can you see past it though? You need this excuse to feel good about doing things that go against humanity. Can you see where I am coming from and possibly comment on this???



The truly sad thing is that you really do think you know it all!!! That your opinion is more valuable than mine, and more correct. The fact that I have been there, in no way diminishes your superiority complex toward me...


The sad thing is that I am not allowed to disagree with you because I have not had the, heh, ‘benefit’ of your experience. Are you prepared to let me, despite not having it?



The fact that I am college educated, with 2 degrees still serves as no hindrance to you considering me either blind. stupid or just a dumb Marine that follows orders without the ability to think for myself...


I know you to be far more eloquent and look forward to an equally eloquent response about the meaning of pride in the service against humanity and the role of the soldier in modern society. I don’t think you are stupid, otherwise I wouldn’t engage with you in this discussion. It’s what you’re coming out with in terms of rhetoric that compels me to.



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