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UK vice murders(5 bodies found)

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posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by kickoutthejams
it could simply be he only has local knowledge of such a small area.

It is obvious that he does. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a local though. Just someone who has cased the area well. It might make him harder to find though.



Killers do return to the sites of the murder or to the bodies. That Australian backpacker killer (or it was two brothers I think) they did that kind of thing repeatedly.

This is what is bewildering me. Is he going back to dump in a high police prescene because this is the only dumping ground he knows. i.e. Not a local.
or
Is he going back for gratification and to say F you to the police? To reep the glory.
I hope the police are watching the "coffin chasers" and goulish onlookers..
I am not convinced though because the police didn't even notify Paula Clennells father that a body ,which was *highly probable* to be his missing daughter, had been found. He found out from the press.




posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 05:19 AM
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I think the notification of her father was purely because it happened so quick and the press have been on the ground in force since the end of last week, as evidenced by the footage of yesterday's find.

Speaking of which yesterdays bodies... two in close proximity, did he dump them at the same time? in which case why separate them by 100 yards or so? Then the question is did he return to the dump site a second time to dump one of them? And... both these close to a third body dumped. Is he really returning to dump them so close to bodies he's already dumped? The sun suggests he stores them and dumps them together but I don't buy it, why spread them out if its just one trip.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by kickoutthejams
I think the notification of her father was purely because it happened so quick and the press have been on the ground in force since the end of last week, as evidenced by the footage of yesterday's find.

That is what I initially thought and that is totally understandable BUT on listening to a live interview with him, yesterday tea-time. 3 hours after the bodies had been found, the police still hadn't approached him..They didn't know it was Paulas body..Still don't but he could have been told, to prepare himself. For bad news or for the press vultures.


Speaking of which yesterdays bodies... two in close proximity, did he dump them at the same time? in which case why separate them by 100 yards or so? Then the question is did he return to the dump site a second time to dump one of them? And... both these close to a third body dumped. Is he really returning to dump them so close to bodies he's already dumped? The sun suggests he stores them and dumps them together but I don't buy it, why spread them out if its just one trip.


I wouldn't listen to a single word the Sun prints, to be honest. They are one seriously dangerous and sensationalist newspaper. They are rarely accurate about anything.
I haven't heard the storing theory but it is highly probable that he did. He can then use the bodies for his own gratification. Usually masturbation if their is no sign of sexual assault.
Whether he stored and then dumped it doesn't make an awful lot of difference to the fact that he was able to take 2 naked bodies to what is essentially a crime scene and dump.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:11 AM
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I don't know if this is relevant but it is interesting.--Todays Guardian

It emerged last night that sex workers in the town had urged the authorities to set up a safe area for them after some women described being gang-raped by clients, and one said a man had attempted to slit her throat. But the call went unheeded and the women were put at greater risk after they were dispersed by police so that they could no longer work in groups.
At least two of the five women whose bodies have been found in the town are known to have taken part in the study, compiled two years ago. Of the 28 sex workers who called for the safe area, the majority said that fear of attack was their biggest concern.

Also--Todays Guardian

Paula Clennell, believed to be one of the two women found murdered yesterday afternoon, spoke to reporters a week ago about her fears for her own safety, it emerged last night. In an interview with an ITV news reporter on Tuesday last week, recorded from the rear so that her face was concealed and also wearing a hooded top to protect her identity, Ms Clennell said the murder of Gemma Adams and disappearance of Tania Nicol had made her "a bit wary of getting into cars" but that she would probably still do it anyway because, "I need the money".






posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:52 AM
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From reading the above post and watching the reports on the tv they will only release a certain ammount of information. Could they be exact copy cat murders from the past like the prostitution murders of jack the ripper and murders of the yorkshire ripper. But people are already starting to group it with jack the ripper murders becasue of the prostitution have a lok at the yorkshire one insted.

Yorkshire ripper
Jack the ripper



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:12 AM
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This killer has been called, "another Jack the Ripper." The interesting point to make there is that there is a lot of conspiricy behind the Ripper killings. One of them is that they were masonic killings.
Also this

According to this story, the nanny turned to prostitution and shared her information about Prince Eddy’s marriage and child with three other prostitutes, who all threatened to go public with the story. The British Prime Minister or the Queen called on Sir William Gull, physician to the Queen and a Freemason, to eliminate this threat.

The story goes on to allege that Gull was mentally unbalanced and decided to kill the women, calling on some Masonic Brethren to assist him and using Masonic ritual in the murders. Supposedly, Masonic Brethren who realized what Gull was doing may not have agreed with his methods but allegedly covered up Gull’s crimes because of Masonic oaths to protect each other.


sorce



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by SE7EN
From reading the above post and watching the reports on the tv they will only release a certain ammount of information. Could they be exact copy cat murders from the past like the prostitution murders of jack the ripper and murders of the yorkshire ripper. But people are already starting to group it with jack the ripper murders becasue of the prostitution have a lok at the yorkshire one insted.

Yorkshire ripper
Jack the ripper


Until they are solved we will never know whether they are copycats or not because the police will not release info until then. I think the press have just jumped on the Ripper angle because it is convienant and involves prostitutes.
As has been said before prostitutes are generally chosen because they are female and an easy target.
Though some serial killers have chosen prostitutes for personal and specific reasons.
Excellant link on the Yorkshire Ripper, there is stuff in there I didn't know.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by kickoutthejams
That Australian backpacker killer (or it was two brothers I think) they did that kind of thing repeatedly.


Nope, that was just one man , Ivan Mallate, a very sick sick man .

Regarding this case, i think it is very disstressing and that all residents living in the United Kingdom should be carefull. this is a man who obviously doesnt care who or how much he kills, regardless of the police force being summond to seek him out, and that is a very worrying thing indeed.

Omega

[edit on 13/12/2006 by Omega85]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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Updated: 12:52, Wednesday December 13, 2006
Criminologist David Wilson has been speaking to Sky News Online about the profile of the man who may have carried out the Ipswich murders.
Here are his key points:
:: The killer is probably white and aged between 25-49.
:: Killers tend to target intra-class, not inter-class, in other words, they select victims in their racial group.
:: He knows the Ipswich area and could work there - but is not necessarily a local man.
:: The killer could be enjoying the attention that he is getting in the media.
:: He preys on prostitutes because they are accessible and vulnerable.
:: He is probably known to the police because he has a history of violence.
:: He will not target non-prostitutes because he is not comfortable with them.
:: He is confident of disposing of the bodies.
:: He may move to a different area to continue killing, possibly the Norwich area.
:: As the body count increases he will begin to make mistakes.

:: Police have revealed that the third dead prostitute, Annelli Alderton, was asphyxiated, probably strangled. Prof Wilson says the killer could have left some of his DNA on the body.
:: Strangulation is an intimate act. Death is not instantanious. The killer feels a sense of power.
:: The first victim and her acquaintances are very important in the case because the killer could know the first girl.
:: Therefore police need to establish which girl was killed first because they often provide the most clues to the case.
:: He clearly knows the roads of Ipswich well because the bodies were dumped near the main A12 and A14.
:: The third body was found near a car park and he could have stopped there.
The case is similar to two others
:: One is Scottish serial killer Robert Black who murdered three girls during the 1980s. Their bodies were found in locations that were far apart.
:: His job was to sell advertising posters and by working across the country he got to know the roads well.
:: The other is Peter Moore, a Welsh serial killer who was a cinema manager. He killed four men in 1995.
Professor Wilson works at the University of Central England in Birmingham.


I have just found this!
Interesting he is being vague, for an expert. Most of these points have been made on this thread.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:35 AM
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The Mallete case police and pathologists believed two killers involved due to two differing causes of death (one intimate severing spine etc... and other with firearms). It was believed to be one of his large extended family.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 10:50 AM
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In regards to the information list on the killer, I was thinking he would soon have to move locations as well.

Even being as bold as he is now, at some point somebody would see something.

As some people haven mentioned it being a small area, is it big on Industry or do most people commute outside of the area for work?

I'm wondering if this guy is actually living in that area or may just be familiar with it.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Grailkeeper
In regards to the information list on the killer, I was thinking he would soon have to move locations as well.

The police are warning the people of Norwich, they feel he may move on to there.


As some people haven mentioned it being a small area, is it big on Industry or do most people commute outside of the area for work?

It has a population of 130,00. It is the regional centre for administration, financial services, hi-tech industries and a hub for transport and distribution. It is surround by small villages. Also a short distance away is Colchester which has a military base and is known as a military town. Felixstowe and Harwich are nearbyish and they are major ports to continental Europe. It allegedly has 800 acres of woodland too. I have only been to Ipswich a few times and found it quite grim.
Map of Suffolk
I don't know if this map will help. 2 girls were found along to A12 to colchester and the other 3 along the A14 to Felixstowe and Harwich. All found on the outskirts.



I'm wondering if this guy is actually living in that area or may just be familiar with it.

I think he is maybe familiar with it.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Murphs


It emerged last night that sex workers in the town had urged the authorities to set up a safe area for them after some women described being gang-raped by clients, and one said a man had attempted to slit her throat. But the call went unheeded and the women were put at greater risk after they were dispersed by police so that they could no longer work in groups.


AARGH! What, are the police actually trying to help out the killer, FFS?

"Well, they're only tarts, right?"



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by Murphs


It emerged last night that sex workers in the town had urged the authorities to set up a safe area for them after some women described being gang-raped by clients, and one said a man had attempted to slit her throat. But the call went unheeded and the women were put at greater risk after they were dispersed by police so that they could no longer work in groups.


AARGH! What, are the police actually trying to help out the killer, FFS?

"Well, they're only tarts, right?"

LOL..I know I shouldn't laugh and I agree totally with your sentiment but it reminds me of an interview I watched yesterday..The reporter was talking to a local woman and she said that she wasn't letting her teenage daughters out of the house, to Xmas parties, because she was afraid if anything happened to them, people would think they were a prostitute.
I think if anything happened to my daughters, that would be the last thing on my mind. She gave the impression that them being labelled a Tart was worse than being killed.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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it's a sad truth I'm afraid, the father of one of missing girls last night was on TV and he seemed more upset about having just learned of his daughters trade than that she may be dead.

They said on the news over 60 working girls murdered in past few years in UK and only 16 arrests. It's a political hot potatoe and vote loser so gov won't touch it even though it should sensibly be 'made safe' for the girls and women working in it. Porn workers are paid for sex and accorded rights and nobody is ever going to get rid of the oldest trade in the world so it needs to be faced responsibly rather than let more vulnerable women die.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Tell you what it really does make you think while watching the news,

They where saying about some women still going out there doing there trade, I'm shocked that men would still be picking up women while this was all going on,

I would have thought the "punters" would have stayed well away in case they where accused,

Another new bit of info tonight, they may be linking a murder of a young women who was killed in 1992? to this, I'm sure there will be more on that twist soon,

here's the map of where the bodies where so far,

news.bbc.co.uk...





[edit on 13-12-2006 by asala]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by kickoutthejams
it's a sad truth I'm afraid, the father of one of missing girls last night was on TV and he seemed more upset about having just learned of his daughters trade than that she may be dead.

They said on the news over 60 working girls murdered in past few years in UK and only 16 arrests. It's a political hot potatoe and vote loser so gov won't touch it even though it should sensibly be 'made safe' for the girls and women working in it. Porn workers are paid for sex and accorded rights and nobody is ever going to get rid of the oldest trade in the world so it needs to be faced responsibly rather than let more vulnerable women die.

Do you know? I am sure you do that there are 1000's of University students on the game. There has been a vast increase since grants were done away with. No parent wants it but many parents may have to accept it. Death is a nasty way to find out though.
I wonder if the number of prostitutes has increased. I may try to find out.
I think as our culture becomes more materialistic more women will take the *easy option* and as the world becomes more sexualised (I don't believe this- I think the boundaries and inhibitions have dropped, so men are more willing to go looking for it.) there is the supply and demand.
To appeal to the moral classes I don't think it should be legalised-Purely because the outcry from them would probably cause more problems than good. It should be decriminalised though and all safe working practises applied.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 05:16 PM
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Well, development wise today in Ipswich it has been quiet compared to the last few days.

It is shown on the news, but it really is dead in Ipswich. I am not fearful myself, but there is a real sense of fear/dread felt by many people.

Obviously 1 one of the victims has now been removed, but the other remains tonight just 2-3 miles from where I live.

I heard tonight that clothing has been reported by the public to have been found, these include a handbag in the town centre & some clothes in the river Orwell.

These may or may not be connected to the murders.

As I speak, for the last 20 minutes the Police helicopter has been hovering, turning to the south east of me, seems to be towards the docks area. - May not be related to the killings however.


Elohim2007



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:54 PM
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I feel really bad for all of you over in the UK with this going on. Unfortunately, due to Britain's "enlightened" weapons laws, your women can no longer protect themselves and you can't protect them either.

I saw several posts talking about what the police are doing. That's the part most people fail to understand. Police can only investigate crimes once they've occured, but they rarely can stop crimes from happening in the first place. There's little comfort to the victims in that, I'm sure. And how many more defenseless (or defenceless) victims will there be before the police get a lucky break?



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:48 PM
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I heard something on FOX about reported similarities between these killings and ones in the U.S. (I think New Jersey)...did anyone see details on this? I wonder if there could be a link.

edit: found something on their website:



FOX News

NEW YORK — Police investigating the brutal "Ipswich Ripper" murders of five prostitutes in England will examine possible links between those killings and the murders of four prostitutes in Atlantic City, N.J., last month, FOXNews.com has learned.

Ipswich Police spokeswoman Shelly Spratt said contact with authorities in Atlantic City "is an avenue we will go down." She said investigators already have discussed making that contact, but because more bodies turned up on Tuesday they had not opened discussion yet.

"We can use all the help we can get," Spratt said.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


[edit on 12/13/2006 by djohnsto77]




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