ten billion to put an base on the moon? what a waste of money

Yea I have to agree with those that say that NASA's timing is dubious, as well as their claims (this latest find is NOT direct evidence of water ... it is simply a picture of topography that has apparently changed over the last few years ... it could be water, ice, mud, alien goo, who knows).

But ARE they really the only way to get into space? Are there any shady government agencies preventing rich people like Branson from setting up shop? What about other members of the private sector? There are no laws against me building a rocket and going to the moon are there (of course I'm being absurd ... it would take thousands of people and millions if not billions of dollars)?

Anyways, this is all within NASA's "budget" so "theoretically" no one is going to be paying any more for anything than they already were going to. And if the choice is between looking around deep deep space for more stars or going to near space to get a first-hand account of what's there, well, I do choose the latter.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by omega1
The space program is a joke.

NASA spends billions a year and all they have to show for is a few Mars pictures.

We have to save our Earth. This is the only reliable spaceship anyway.

Well, at least that is all they are telling us about. I for one tend to think that there must be some reason for sending rockets into space other than just to "spend money." However, if they are not going to be open about everything that they are finding out, and they haven't been, then,yeah, it's an extreme waste of money.

[edit on 9-12-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I agree 100%.....or maybe your name is inducing some sort of a self-hypnosis.........


As for NASA spending, it seems that others have similiar questions.

Click the link for NASA spending.answers.google.com...

So who is reaping the rewards?

I they can put a base on the moon for only 10 billion, I consider it a bargain.
I bet it will end up costing much more. Also that money is spread out over time.
In the scope of the federal budget, it's a drop in the bucket.

This is a semi-hot issue (yawn) with ATSers, but I can't get excited about NASA suggesting a moon base after almost 50 years of satellite repairs and deceiving the public.

You are either for a space program that deceives the public, turning your back on this unacceptable lapse in public trust, or you're incensed by the censorship, mismanagement and bold faced lies of this program and see this as just another stunt.

Don't get me wrong, I think that a moon base is a potentially exciting development, but what I see as an opportune and conspicuously timed announcement has only further infuriated me.

I do not forgive the U.S. and other governments who take advantage of, lie to, and through psychological or physical means attack the liberties of their own citizens, and I do not forgive a poorly managed and self-serving agency that mislead the U.S. congress, leading to, no doubt, several unnecessary tragedies in pursuit of its own truly unknown ends.

There is an author describing a 70's movie called Capricorn One, which was about a NASA mission, which was written and directed by Peter Hyams.

The author comments on how accurate a statement about the real NASA the movie is and has the following to say,

This film also says a lot about NASA, with its deeply cynical tone and emphasis on bureaucrats. Conceived in the shadow of the Soviet missile gap, its purpose has always been cloudy, and the turgid effects of budget squabbling have lain heavy on it since Apollo 11 finished the primary goal of the organisation's first decade. By the time this film was made there had already been accidents, Apollos 1 and 13, but nothing to compare to what was to come with the Shuttle.

The author goes on to say,

I haven't trusted the organization since reading Feynman's book discussing (amongst his many stories) his key role in determining the cause of the Challenger disaster: What do you care what other people think?. You create a government department, under the auspices of science but which is actually a mixed bag of motivations, from international public relations to pork barrelling, and you are going to find it difficult to justify your stratospheric funding. Go several years down the line and you have an organization hanging on by it's fingernails. To my eye, NASA has been the single biggest resistance to human space exploration in the West of the past 30 years, because they have always had incumbency. How do you compete with billions of tax dollars when you are considering satellite repair/launch as a business line?

Finally, he mentions the X Prize, which in 1995 was a $10 million dollar fund offered to jumpstart the commercial space industry by offering it as a prize to the first team that can build a spacecraft able to carry three people to an altitude of 100 kilometers (62.5 miles),

I find it deeply, deeply depressing that so little has been made of The X Prize in the general media. There has been no movie made about it, there isn't even an official biography of Burt Rutan; why? Because everyone thinks it's already been done by NASA. The pathetic, clunky, Winnebago of the skies that is The Shuttle, and people pay no attention to the first genuinely practical space program of the private sector. In Capricorn One Hyams showed insights into all of this; there is a strong undertone that the only purpose of NASA is to continue the existence of NASA. It also sent a cold shiver down my spine when I realized the cover-up/mission failed in this movie because of the detaching of the heat shield on re-entry, exactly the cause of the Columbia shuttle disaster in 2003.

I won't forgive our government for the crimes it has perpetrated against its own and other citizens around the world, and I won't roll over and change my tune with NASA just because it proffers another hopeful, but clearly self-serving program. Too little too late...and that's exactly what I'll say when NASA announces that extraterrestrial beings are visiting this planet...

Originally posted by Mechanic 32

Not meaning to be mean or anything, but johnlear has made extraordinary claims of moon bases.

He talks like someone who did too much '___' in the 60's...that is all I am going to say on the John Lear issue

Originally posted by thesneakiod

I seriously hope this is a joke. NASA plan to spend an obscene amount of money just
to put some sort of high tech living quarters on the moon? what in gods name for?

No joke.. major preparations have been going on for years

Helium 3 for one... several trillion metric tons... 25 tons can power the entire USA for one year. And the the new Aluria craft can handle 50 tons

Going rate is $3 billion per ton...

Living quarters made of fiberglass made on the moon, the process releases oxygen as a biproduct

No normal average joe will ever get there, we will never see it being constructed, if nything alien is there, we will never see it.

Wanna bet? Bigelow Aerospace here in Vegas is hiring and do a google for Galactic Mining Inc

It would cost NASA millions to get people fit for space travel.

NASA also claims it will be a launch pad for our first trip to mars, so by their reckoning, the launch of the biggest and most important space flight in history will be safer in a dodgy cold harsh enviroment with no oxygen, instead of the tried and tested launches from earth?

Yup

The moon is a dead rock, so they say. So whatever is there,(past relics and whatnot) we will never be allowed to find out the true secrets of the moon so whats the point.

Nope and who is THEY and since when do we believe THEY? THEY told us the moon was gray dusty rock... THEY lied...THEY told us there were no high res images from Clementine Satellite... THEY lied

Its funny how NASA releases pics of supposed water on mars to get people juiced up, then announce they're going to spend a vast amount of money on a pointless projecton which we thought they had given up on years ago.

Not pointless and thats what THEY wanted you to think... Worked pretty good huh? Don't know why you sound so upset... but let me throw some calming light on the subject...

Aristarchus Crater in all is glory... Clementine Satellite... I998

Originally posted by Fiverz
But ARE they really the only way to get into space?

Sigh...... You people need to look outside into the real world once in awhile


Do a google search...

Virgin Galactic

Blue Origin

Spaceport America the new two billion dollar commercial spaceport in Arizona

Spaceport to Rise in California's Mojave Desert 100 miles north of Los Angeles

Bigelowe Aerospace test of his inflatable module launched from Russia a few months ago (NASA was busy) Purpose: Hotels in Space ...only a Vegas company would think of that LOL
BTW they are hiring...

Space Tourism... 20 million will get you 10 days on ISS fifth passenger ready to go now

OH and lets not forget...

FAA's Office of Commercial Space Transportation

There are no laws against me building a rocket and going to the moon are there (of course I'm being absurd...)

True on both counts LOL

No there is no law... but lots of port fees and license/permit fees and inspection fees.. usual government stuff... see above links I think they have already issued 12 licences for commercial space ports so far

Yes absurd indeed... why use rockets? Maglev launch ramps are coming... did you know Los Alamos National Laboritory is working 9and has for quite some time) Anti gravity, gravity shielding and WARP DRIVES? No I won't link it... its a restricted site you need to get your own access


Time to wake up and see the new world rising...



[edit on 10-12-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Schaden
I they can put a base on the moon for only 10 billion, I consider it a bargain.
I bet it will end up costing much more. Also that money is spread out over time.
In the scope of the federal budget, it's a drop in the bucket.

Ah a voice of reason in the crowd. Does anyone in here have any idea how much titanium, Helium 3 to name a few is up there? and how much it is worth?

10 billion for a base? Helium three is worth 3 billion a ton One shuttle payload holds 25 tons...

Save the Earth? 100 tons of H3 will power the entire planet for a year and leave no waste!!!

This work placed a total 129 tons initial base for both the in-crater and crater rim installations, as well as a 90 tons “marshalling yard” at the Earth-Moon L-1 libration point. For launch services, the results of an in-house Shuttle-Derived Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle study were used. It is called
Aquila. This vehicle can deliver over 50 tons to low Earth orbit from the Kennedy Space Center,using a combination of Space Shuttle and Delta IV-Heavy components.

That little tiny snippit is from hundreds of documents at the Colorado School of Mines about Lunar and Martian mining


LOL just a little heads up

10 billion? Thats it? From what ive heard, we spend more than that weekly in Iraq. That seems like a very conservative estimate to me. Have they even designed the Actual base? Would it be a Subterrainian base, or would it be a biodome type thing? Do they even have this worked out? I think it would be much more than "Just" 10 billion.

Originally posted by The_Time_is_now
10 billion? Thats it? From what ive heard, we spend more than that weekly in Iraq. That seems like a very conservative estimate to me. Have they even designed the Actual base?

Yes very conservative... most likely higher over the long run but cheap considering the rewards...

BTW did you know only three people own 95% of the mineral rights on the Moon?

Would it be a Subterrainian base, or would it be a biodome type thing?

Both actually...

Do they even have this worked out?

Oh yes all worked out...

Go check the meetings at the Lunar and Planetary Institute

I think it would be much more than "Just" 10 billion.

Not if there was already stuff up there...

Ahhh yes! Another pseudo scientific op/ed of the NASA program that has the potential to save humanity and increase our knowledge of the universe.

You do realize technologies like microwave ovens, etc. are a direct result of space exploration dont you?

Do you also realize that the earth's population of people is reaching unsustainable numbers? a war will be our only resort if we dont start colonizing other planets.

I wish people would realise the importance of space exploration to the human race rather then sitting around whining that they would rather see the money spent to feed people who will never contribute back to society the resources they absorb.

What happens when an asteroid impacts the earth and leaves the planet in a nuclear winter for a few years and we have never left the planet? Oh! thats right! EXTINCTION!

now if the same sceonario occured and we had colonized the moon and mars, we could back colonize the planet. The human race would survive.

I really dislike people with no vision.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
You do realize technologies like microwave ovens,

Psstt You forgot Velcro... how would the whinners do up their shoes without that.

Fortunately for the planet the control and exploitation of space is escalating at an intense pace

"control and exploitation of space" you ask? Oh that... thats the Air Force Space Command's Mission Statement...

Sign up now!! Space Command needs YOU

You ought to have a look and see how big they are...


SPACE COMMAND

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
You do realize technologies like microwave ovens, etc. are a direct result of space exploration dont you?
Do you also realize that the earth's population of people is reaching unsustainable numbers? a war will be our only resort if we dont start colonizing other planets.
I wish people would realise the importance of space exploration to the human race rather then sitting around whining that they would rather see the money spent to feed people who will never contribute back to society the resources they absorb.
What happens when an asteroid impacts the earth and leaves the planet in a nuclear winter for a few years and we have never left the planet? Oh! thats right! EXTINCTION!
now if the same sceonario occured and we had colonized the moon and mars, we could back colonize the planet. The human race would survive.

I really dislike people with no vision.

I agree with you, X. I can't stand the majority of folk who have placed their own material well being ahead of the survival of the species. If there comes a day within my lifetime that they offer jobs for colonizing the Moon or Mars and I'm still without family ties, I'd gladly volunteer to do it. Somebody in my family had the balls enough to get on a ship from Spain
and come to the Americas about 3-400 years ago and that's why I'm sitting here typing. I'm sure that someone dangled free land in front of him and told him that he'd have to deal with the hazards but nothing risked nothing gained. $10 billion seems like a very small investment these days for the resources that might be gained from the moon or Mars.

Originally posted by crgintx
I agree with you, X. I can't stand the majority of folk who have placed their own material well being ahead of the survival of the species. If there comes a day within my lifetime that they offer jobs for colonizing the Moon or Mars and I'm still without family ties, I'd gladly volunteer to do it. Somebody in my family had the balls enough to get on a ship from Spain
and come to the Americas about 3-400 years ago and that's why I'm sitting here typing. I'm sure that someone dangled free land in front of him and told him that he'd have to deal with the hazards but nothing risked nothing gained. $10 billion seems like a very small investment these days for the resources that might be gained from the moon or Mars.

Thanks. I didnt mean to get on such a rant, but we NEED space exploration. We cannot surive as a species without it. I would rather see ALL the money spent in Iraq go to NASA in a heartbeat! I wish nasa would take private donations. I would happily check a box on my taxes that asked if I would donate some money to NASA.

The rest of the world should have access to space as well. I know NASA is working closely with other nations on their projects, but other nations should have their own ways of getting into space.

I cannot believe china just put a man in orbit in 2003!!!! thats ridiculous! we should have been on Mars already!

It's time to start thinking of ourselves as a planet of one, rather than a planet of several hundred nations.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
It's time to start thinking of ourselves as a planet of one, rather than a planet of several hundred nations.

We hardly agree, and I dont agree with this particular thread...

but thumbs up on that statement.





space exploration is a nessecity, granted.
But putting a base on the moon, with all of the issues affecting mankinds SURVIVAL on earth today is totally messed up.

those billions, upon billions should cure world hunger, the enviroment, and the middleast/energy crisis...

so then, we can all truley be UNITED as one world and look into the heavens.

Imagine bringing a nother race to our planet, showing them a map of the world and say

'' dont mind that area... we are still murdering thousands, and bombing innocent chilederen for when they attacked us... really tho, we are a species worthy of inter-gallactic acceptance... its just we cant stand each other at the moment... ''

Mankind does not deserve to land, populate or even setup on any other planet out there in space.

look what we have done to our own planet..

why do we deserve another?

Just want to point out two IMO ignorant arguments.

1. That it's better to spend the money on space exploration than missles.

The government will carry on making missles with or without the $10billion from this NASA project. It would be nice if th world's defence budgets were drastically reduced but I don't see this happening anytime soon.

2. That by having a base on the moon we'll get some new technologies otherwise not gained.

The biggest driving force behind technological developments has been war, not space exploration. So following this, your argument is ignorant, because you are also advocating war. I find it hard to believe that microwave cookers wouldn't have been developed without going to space.


A moon base is a waste of money which could be used in more productive ways. As I've said before, I think we should be using space exploration money to 'terraform' currently inhospitable parts of the planet to increase the amount of living area. Surely it'd be easier to live in the desert than on the moon?

[edit on 10/12/06 by byhiniur]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Mankind does not deserve to land, populate or even setup on any other planet out there in space.
look what we have done to our own planet..
why do we deserve another?

Foolish human. As a student and observer of nature , there is only one bioligical imperaritive: survival. 70 years ago humans were blissfully ignorant of the frighteningly violent nature of the planetary system that we live in. Not to mention super volcanoes, retroviruses and antibiotic resistant bacteria. You go ahead and put your anthro-centric false moral judgements on humanity. Adapt or die has been nature's credo from day one. Nature doesn't care what you feel or think. You probably believe the false crap the Earth First and other animal worshippers put forward. Drop them naked in the Amazon or the Sahara desert and see how much they love nature after a week if they survive that long. I believe the only way we are going to save what's left of the untouched natural Earth is for us to un-ass the planet. Unless you think we should start forced sterilization and euthenasia.

Green Mars and Green Venus!

This is a little off topic but I feel that it has to be said: Modern Man has been shaped and formed by Nature itself and we haven't put a dent in Nature's plan for us. Life is continually seeking out new niches in the enviroment to exploit. Nature or God or whatever you believe gave modern humans a big brain and aggressiveness to spread our current oxygen breathing form of life out into new enviroments to live or die as Nature sees fit. If Mars or the Moon or a planet around another star is where our natural aggressiveness and curiousity takes us, it what Nature intended because if tomorrow, Nature throws a 10 km wide asteroid or comet into the middle of the Pacific, we'll only have our brains and agressiveness to keep us alive and nothing else.

On 16 Jul 94, nature gave us a clear picture of what's going on outside in our little solar sytem when comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 left a bruise bigger than our planet on Jupiter. Welcome to the hood, baby. You been warned!

I fully support America and it's quest for a moon base.

The scientific and medicinal advances that come from ventures like this are amazing. The trickle down to average Americans, and the world in general, is fantastic!

Microwave ovens? They came from the space race.
Velcro? Comes from the space race. Spandex? Another space race product.
Certain rubbers that we use every day? Space product!

I used to have a little book that told about many of the products we use every day that came from space technology. I sure wish I knew where it went.

On the space station they are growing perfect crystals and medicines in weightlessness that are being used back on earth for medicines ... for Cancer research ... things like that.

The advances in science, technology, and medicine that will come from going to the moon and having a lunar base will definately find it's way into society and touch just about every living person.