Who here is an expert on the Constitution?, page 1

Originally posted by Lonestar24
No, the 14th amendment states that all US born/naturalized persons and that the jurisdictions applies to have to be considered as citizens.

I quoted what you said. I don't understand it. Can you rephrase it? "all US born/naturalized persons and that the juridiction applies to"? What does this mean? Let me make it simple: Does a person have the right to travel within the US territories? Do they need a driver license? If so, why?

You have not read what the first Supreme Court judge said about sovereignty and which I quoted above. Reread it and understand that this man witnessed the American Revolution and was part of those events.

Chisolm vs. Georgia

Defining citizenship is important as this is the basis for equal jurisdiction. And the only alternative to having a jurisdiction is anarchy -> no state at all.

The only alternative to having a jurisdiction is anarchy? You are wrong, entirely.

Jurisdiction is for people who are under some kind of authority. Americans are not, unless they choose to be. I know plenty of Americans who have no driver license and no vehicle tags and who are left alone by the local authorities.

Much of it depends on if your neighbors are of the same mind or not. If your neighbors are city dwellers, they will surely follow the US codes and statues. These are optional even if they themselves do not know this.

You are AUTOMATICALLY bound to the jurisdiction of the nation you are in by BEING in that nation - you become part of the society and have to act according to the rules that society chose for itself - whether you are a citizen of that nation or not.

Sure, in most countries, but not in America.

If you are born in the American territory, you are a sovereign and have to opt-in to their jurisdiction, just like the native peoples are, although their "countries" are now reduced to pathetic reservations. Notice that indian jurisdiction and US citizen jurisdiction are very different. But aren't all American born people the progeny of the original "We the People" of the Declaration of Independence? Yes, these were our forefathers and anyone born in America has the right to that sovereignty if they choose to claim it.

You have to say "I agree to be bound" by getting a driver license, to be a part of the US Federal jurisdiction. Just because the authority assumes jurisdiction doesn't make it so.

You are perhaps saying that if we don't have driver licenses and the DMV, that anarchy will ensue? I'd like more clarification.

We're discussing the second amendment, but the main question here is is, "Should I own a gun?" The answer is, "Don't look to the law, to answer that question, because lawyers make and perpetuate the laws." To me, the second amendment is clear, but the trampling of the US Constitution since then has made jurisdiction and authority the only question to discuss when before a judge.

And yes, I have discussed this question, with a judge, in his courtroom. He summarily dismissed me and kicked me out, but only because I irritated him by my innocent questions. If you want to own a gun, don't ever expect the gummint to give you permission. That is the essence of my argument.

A slave however is someone who has been stripped of certain rights that otherwise apply to all other persons equally, AND who is subject to another person.

I ask again: Do Americans have the right to travel in the American territory? The authority says "No, not if they don't obtain a driver license." ...But the fact of the matter and the honest to god functional truth is that lots of Americans do not have this license nor do they care about nor will they ever get it. In so doing, they do not fall under the jurisdiction of the US. So too with guns. Buy them, bury them, and don't worry about your license or the second amendment because there will have to be another constitutional convention anyway with the winds that are blowing. The "Citizen"-slaves are about to get unruly. Surely we will see the true definitions of slave, citizen, and sovereign.

[edit on 8-12-2006 by smallpeeps]