It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Iraq Studies Group Has Givven Us A Road Map To Peace. Will We Take It?

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 10:06 AM
link   
It true that Iraq is not Vietnam. Although both wars were mistakes from the beginning, and each is due to an overdose of hubris suffered by American leaders, getting out of Vietnam was essentially non-consequential, but getting out of Iraq will haunt us for decades to come.

Vietnam was nothing to the United States. We labored under the dire predictions of the domino theory, which had us defending capitalism in Australia after the rest of Asia fell under control of the Communists if Vietnam fell. Never a valid theory, but it was our guide for a decade. An example how important good leaders are to a country.

The Middle East is made up of the following: Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, The Occupied Territories, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE - United Arab Emirates - Qatar and Bahrain. It could be argued that Turkey, Cyprus and Pakistan should be included. It may also include Lybia, Tunisia and Morocco. And perhaps, Afghanistan.

Everyone knows this region was mostly part of the Ottoman Empire that collapsed in 1918. That most of the countries we are talking about were defined by Europeans around 1922, with no regard for the people who lived there. This is why I hate to hear the issue of “borders” used as a justification for any kind of military action. But we cannot go back, we have to play the hand we’ve been dealt.

B43 gives no sign of remorse or repentance since November 7. I fear this bodes ill for the 110th Congress and for the high hopes the general public had placed on it. I have heard it will cost to $100 b. to refit and replace the equipment lost or used up in Iraq. That seems like a lot of money. I hope the Dems can follow the money trail a lot closer than the GOP Congress.

Anyone who has read my earlier postings know I have always said that the Israeli-Arab issue is the underlying cause celebre of the Middle East. It has gotten much worse under B43. We gave the right wing Israelis a free hand in a reverse Holocaust on the Palestinians. Sharon and Olmert want all of the biblical Palestine for a pre-Armageddon Israel. Right wing Christians in America back that plan. The Middle East is so complicated that it is worse than the Gordian Knot of antiquity. And we have no Alexander on the scene.

The fact remains the United States is the only country with both the historic connections, the wealth and the power to “solve” this issue. Or should I say, “resolve?” Briefly, we can come out of the Middle East with much of our honor preserved if we do this: Take 1967 as our starting point. To go back further is to go nowhere. Facts merge into myths. Every boundary line is clear at the end of the Six Day War. Israel must surrender all of the West Bank, called Samaria and Galilee. Israel must return Gaza and a grade separated roadway between the two territories so the Palestinians can travel form one to the other without interference by Israel. Israel must return the Golan Heights to Syria.

Israel must return East Jerusalem to the Arabs-Palestinians, so that the Temple Mount and its two holy sites are again in Arab hands. The Mosque al Aqba and the Dome of the Rock. Every Israeli must vacate the Occupied Territories immediately and Israel must not destroy the buildings as they have always done in the past. Spiteful. Israel must take down the wall. So what do the Israelis and the US get for this small sacrifice? The US gets a lot of its honor and prestige back. Israel gets peace. Yes, the US must furnish 15,000 soldiers to guard the borders between Israel and a New Palestine. For as long as it takes. Until both sides ask us to leave. Hey, we’ve been in South Korea since 1953. The US must give $15 b. a year to the New Palestinian government for 10 years, for development and infrastructure.

New Palestine must not ever acquire or possess offensive arms. No weapons other than a police constabulary can use in keeping infernal order. A serious effort to disarm all Palestinians should be made. Give a job for every AK47 turned in. Pay every Palestinian who lost his property to the Israelis $50,000, to end The Right of Return.

We - the US - must “guarantee” the borders of Iraq, after we are gone. This is to prevent Iran and Turkey from dividing Iraq between the two countries and cutting off a piece to Syria and Jordan to buy their complicity. It also wold gain favor with Turkey if we included the provision that an independent Kurdistan would not be allowed. This provision needs a sundown clause to avoid problems 10-29 years down the road.

Finally, the US must accept Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in New Palestine. Hold a real election in Lebanon, and abandon the so-called “confessional” division of power that underlies the vexatious problems in Lebanon. I am 100% convinced if we did our part, each of those groups would give up their warlike ways - resistance to perceived tyranny - and acknowledge the right to Israel to remain where it is, and to be at peace with its neighbors.

This is what the 70 recommendations are saying. We have always known how to “solve” the Middle East, but we have succumbed to the pressures of the hard liners in Israel, the Occupied Territories and the United States.

People of moderation must take charge if we are to avoid a nuclear exchange in the not too distant but foreseeable future.


[edit on 12/8/2006 by donwhite]




posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 10:17 AM
link   
The Iraqi Surrender Group did NOT give us a roadmap to peace!
They gave us a roadmap to surrender; a path to a power-vacuum in the Middle East. I'm no fan of this war at all! It was predicated on bad intelligence, executed miserably and lacked anything akin to planning. It's fair to call it a complete quagmire! However, that being said, it would be adding insult to injury to simply walk away from the mess we've created. Nope - we created it, now we must fix it! It is our responsibility to provide for the the safety and security of the emerging government. Whereas I agree that we need to do much, much more to achieve peace in Iraq - removing our troops on any given time table is not one of them!



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 10:53 AM
link   


posted by kozmo

The Iraqi Surrender Group did NOT give us a roadmap to peace! They gave us a roadmap to surrender; a path to a power-vacuum in the Middle East . . it would add insult to injury to simply walk away from the mess we've created. [Edited by Don W]



It is true the influence - the good offices - of the United States is now de minimus in the Middle East. If our ulterior motive was to make Persian Gulf oil more secure, then we have failed. At least for the time being. For no other reason than the US is the largest buyer of crude oil in the world - about 15 million barrels a day - sellers must continue to deal with us. Alaska is unlikely to furnish more than 1.5-2 mbd. Gulf Coast and the California coast combined cannot be expected to produce more than Alaska. At the rate US consumption continues to grow, even new sources - 5 to 10 years off - would still leave us short by 50% of consumption. Alternate fuels offer next to nothing to anyone but the researchers . Until we tax gas like we tax cigarettes, we are kidding ourselves. But I digress.



Nope - we created it, now we must fix it! It is our responsibility to provide for the safety and security of the emerging government. Whereas I agree that we need to do much, much more to achieve peace in Iraq - removing our troops on any given time table is not one of them! [Edited by Don W]



That sounds very arrogant. Ignorance of the Iraqi condition is what has brought us to this point. We still can’t speak the language, we are not familiar with their religion, we know less than nothing about their culture and their hopes and ambitions for themselves. What makes you think we are the right ones to fix anything? This sounds like too much hubris. On our part.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 05:22 PM
link   
The Iraqi Surrender Group could have been thought up by 5 year olds.

Let's talk with our enemies and maybe they will be nice to us? Give me a break, you don't talk with your enemies, you destroy them.

The only way to win in Iraq is to destroy the insurgency, and continue to support the democratically elected government. Combat missions with Iraqi soldiers must be stepped up, insurgent controlled cities may have to be leveled. Stop looking for a way to surrender, and win the damn thing!

[edit on 8-12-2006 by RRconservative]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 11:01 PM
link   
Hey,they left out giving CA and the South West US to mexico.



posted on Dec, 10 2006 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by RRconservative
The Iraqi Surrender Group could have been thought up by 5 year olds.

Let's talk with our enemies and maybe they will be nice to us? Give me a break, you don't talk with your enemies, you destroy them.

The only way to win in Iraq is to destroy the insurgency, and continue to support the democratically elected government. Combat missions with Iraqi soldiers must be stepped up, insurgent controlled cities may have to be leveled. Stop looking for a way to surrender, and win the damn thing!

[edit on 8-12-2006 by RRconservative]



you're oversimplifying the situation

first of all, you attacked a group, showing a sad lack of restraint
second, you can't simply destroy insurgent groups

let's say the united states did level an insurgent controlled city
that would break several geneva conventions (mainly wanton destruction)
but it would also STRENGTHEN SUPPORT FOR THE INSURGENTS

also, you imply that the government was democratically elected
it was elected by a small group of people in the green zones of iraq, and that is hardly democratic

and why are we calling this a war?
the usa never declared war against iraq, we just invaded



new topics

top topics
 
0

log in

join