Thanks to our good friends in Venezuela - Joe Kennedy

… Thanks to our ‘good friends in Venezuela’ and Citgo.… says Joe Kennedy's TV 'discount oil' commercial – while pictures of poor Americans are on the TV pulling at your heart strings. (Some of the commercials say ‘friends’ and some say ‘good friends’.)

One of the Commercials

Chavez and Citgo are offering some Americans discounts on Venezuelan oil. 40% discounts. WHY?

Quality of life in Venezuela is on a rapid decline and spiraling full steam into communism. Heck, just last week Chavez took away the right of free speech for the media no more free press So why make such a discount and have American Joe Kennedy as the mouthpiece?

That whack Cindy Sheehan just loooooves Chavez. Guess Kennedy and Sheehan have a lot in common. Either that or Kennedy is just being nostalgic about when JFK made deals with Venezuela.

Kennedy, is now the Chavez mouthpiece in the USA. Chavez is now supporting the anti-American government of Bolivia and their coca plant operations – illegal in America Perhaps Kennedy just wants to get a discount on what the new anti-American government of Bolivia is sending our way.

Joe Kennedy, American mouthpiece for Chavez and Citgo …. Wonder if he knows that Iran says Chavez’s win is a victory against the USA. Guess Iran likes the fact that Chavez was bold in his hatred of President Bush calling him “the Devil” before the UN General Assembly in New York . Chavez has also promised to “finish off the U.S. empire” altogether. (in a July speech he made in Iran with Ahmadinejad) . And then there are all those Chavez purchases from Russia for military weapons … and Chinese-made radars and anti-aircraft missiles. Not to mention Chavez planning to increase the reserve army to 1.5 million. Venezuela recently closed military deals with Russia worth roughly US$3 billion. Of course, there is also that new Kalshnikov rifle factory that Venezuela is getting into. And In addition to all that, the country of 25 million people will soon have a reserve army of 1.5 million, under Chavez and his ‘finish off the USA’ promises. There are also claims that Chavez gave $1 million to al-Qaida shortly after 9/11.

So .. why is Joe Kennedy being cozy with Chavez and the new Venezuela? Why is he saying ‘good friends’?

More information on Chavez

FF, i would just like to know some things about your beliefs

why do you support economic freedom?
does it bother you that economic freedom will inevitably lead to an underclass?
do you believe in zero-sum economics?
and do you follow the political and social theories of john locke?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i would just like to know some things about your beliefs

That question is off topic however I will briefly answer so we can get back on topic.

Economic freedom is the best way a society can conduct itself. Competition leads to growth. I am not a marxist and therefore I fully understand and accept that there will be some who either get left behind or who choose not to work in a free market society and therefore do not 'make it'. Marxism is unfair because it robs from those who do the work, to give to those who don't want to work. Marxism fails everywhere it goes.

That is my belief. Which is completely off topic.

THE TOPIC IS .... we have Joe Kennedy being a mouthpiece for a foreign government that has promised to destroy America and that makes our enemies, who also want us destroyed, it's best friends. THAT is the issue.

Is it worth putting up with these things to get some oil at reduced cost for poor people, or should we not be dealing with Chavez at all since he is taking his country in the downward spiral of marxism and has vowed to destroy us (in a speech in Iran this year).

THAT is the topic.

i wasn't being off topic, just inquisitve
it's easier to argue when you know where people stand

first of all, chavez isn't leading his country towards marxism
more of a hybrid between capitalism and socialism

chavez is merely angry at the USA's attitudes towards central and south america
throughout it's history, the USA has maintained that it should be the 1 and only real power in the western hemisphere, and has enforced this thoroughly

it has also been economically imperialistic in the past

and also, you've misconstrued something in venuzuala as REMOVING free press
chavez is merely doing something to restrict what many non-venuzualen analysts see as a possible revolutionary movement

finally, just because somebody is sponsoring cheaper heating oil doesn't mean he is a mouthpiece

sheehan didn't say she loved chavez, she merely prefers him to bush

and also, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of marxism
have you actually read the works of marx, FF?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and also, you've misconstrued something in venuzuala as REMOVING free press
chavez is merely doing something to restrict what many non-venuzualen analysts see as a possible revolutionary movement

Oh, please! Call a spade a spade, for goodness' sake! "Merely restricting", my eye. And I suppose Hitler was "merely keeping the Jews warm" in those ovens, right?

And what do you call the nationalization of private assets in Venezuela? Merely dividing the loaves and fishes?

jsobecky, the law is merely applying to a few news networks
it doesn't even affect the whole press

and turning private assests into government assets ISN'T MARXISM
sure, marxism does involve that
but so does mercantilism

just because it takes PART of marxism, doesn't mean it is marxism

it may simply be democratic socialism

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
jsobecky, the law is merely applying to a few news networks
it doesn't even affect the whole press

No, just things like news crews that try to film anti-Chavez protests.

and turning private assests into government assets ISN'T MARXISM
sure, marxism does involve that
but so does mercantilism

just because it takes PART of marxism, doesn't mean it is marxism

it may simply be democratic socialism

You make it sound so benign and harmless, when in effect it is robbery at the point of a gun.

It works well exactly one time, because then the producers are scared away, and you're left with all those mouths to feed.

jsobecky, you're applying some ignorant statements
there are actually no documented cases of democratic socialist governments
so how would you know how it works?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of marxism have you actually read the works of marx

I have no misunderstanding. I fully understand what Marxism is ... socially and economically, and the damage it inflicts upon people of religion. Marxism was covered in one of my sociology classes in college.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
chavez isn't leading his country towards marxism more of a hybrid between capitalism and socialism

No. He is definately on a slippery slope to marxism. Even if it was socialism, it is still in the wrong direction. I posted a link showing the rapid decline in the quality of life in Venezuela. And don't try to tell me that socialism doesn't leave people behind .. it most definately does.

ALL OFF TOPIC.

The topic is not a debate as to which is better - marxism, socialism, capitalism (Capitalism is!) The topic is ... Joe Kennedy being a mouthpiece for CITGO, which is basically the same as being a mouthpiece for Chavez. Anti-American Chavez who went to Iran this summer and told cheering crowds that he would finish off America (aka destroy it).

THAT is the topic.


[edit on 12/7/2006 by FlyersFan]

so, discussing the merits of the person that a man is supposedly the mouthpiece of is off topic?

i don't see how it is

andm just because he supports the heating oil initiative doesn't mean he's citgo's mouthpiece

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
jsobecky, you're applying some ignorant statements
there are actually no documented cases of democratic socialist governments
so how would you know how it works?

Uhhh.... then why would you bring it up?

You can put as much lipstick on that pig as you want, it's still robbery at the point of a gun.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so, discussing the merits of the person that a man is supposedly the mouthpiece of is off topic?

You are turning slipping this toward an arguement - Marxism vs Socialism vs Capitalism. That's not the subject.

(Marxism and Socialism ROB people who work to give it to people who won't work. 'redistribution of wealth' is not much more than squeezing the middle class who earn their livings from their wages; while rewarding lazy people or incompetent societies and thus they don't bother to grow and change.)

The questions here are -

- is it okay for Joe Kennedy to be the public relations mouthpiece of for anti-American I-will-finish-off-America Chavez. That's what he is doing.

- is it okay because it supposedly will help some poor people get heating oil at a reduced cost. Does the benefit outweigh the obvious negative aspects?

- if it is NOT okay for Joe Kennedy to be Chavez's propagandist in the USA, and if it's NOT okay for him to be doing business with Venezuela in such a manner, then what does that mean for all the other American business' that are doing business in Venezuela? How far do we take it. Does everyone pull out? Or do we bombard Venezuela with American products/goods/services and get Chavez to change from his 'wipe out America' ways??