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New Video about Flying Saucers from Billy Meier

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posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:12 PM
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Doc-I've posted at length why there's such tenacity from me in the way of Meier's case. This case has been touted for years as such an airtight cade, when it isnt. It's one of the cases people outside the community laugh at, and largely ridicule us for. I'm a little dissapointed youre falling for this, considering how many cases I've shown you were faked and exactly how it was done. I might as well not even bother.

There's good stuff out there, you just have to temper your enthusiasm for it to be true right off the bat.

If thats ok with you, then thats fine. But it aint gonna ever be for me. I believe this is one of the most important subjects/enigmas to ever face us. I think we could learn alot more about it if it were'nt for cases like this throwing mud in the already murky waters.

The other half for me is the rampant attacks on myself as well as others for speaking out against the case's validity. If you knew half of the crap we've dealt with from these zealots, you'd not wonder why I'm so tenacious about getting the contrary evidence out there.

Lastly, the accountability in this field sucks. It's really that simple. I'd like to at least try and see us make a dent in that at some point in my lifetime.

All it seems anyone can say to the contrary data of the Meier case is laugh, or dismiss the person as a "debunker", rather then concretely address the issue. I have brought up only a small part of those issues...and no one can even address them past statements like this:
"This cannot be taken seriously!"

No one wants to explain how the trashcan lid for example, is exactly the same ratio of scale in the way of the scribed lines, the handle placement, and leading edges. If youre willing to accept that as a real alien craft then all I can do is feel sorry for you.

So, anyway, Skyway...
"Many copies are made of photographs to accomodate many people who want to see them."

Wrong. The investigators of the case knew these photos were made for analysis. The negatives were available at that time, obviously, so why the multigenerations out? Because the less resolution, the more opportunity to hide things. There is/was no reason to submit such prints, especially to Nathan.

"Is that supposed to be credible evidence of anything? Just because some unidentified "DeAnza employee" alleges that he was asked to alter photos, are we supposed to blindly and unquestioningly accept it as true? Oh puhleeze! This is nothing. Besides, it doesn't even specify WHO asked the employee to alter the photos...it could have been someone who was trying to frame Billy Meier. They probably were hoping that people who learned about it would ASSUME that Meier was behind it. These are the kind of cheap and low tactics that are used in attempts to discredit Billy Meier. Patheitc!"

Ken Dinwiddie, was the DeAnza employee, and he and others are quoted extensively here:
www.rickross.com...

You'll note that DeAnza *put in the colors* that Dilettoso asked for, and then Dilettoso and Stevens called those "analysis". You'll also note he says they didnt buy any equipment at all to do their "analysis", but only snapped some pictures and left. You can say this isnt true all you want, this has been well published for a very long time and if it wasnt true legal issues would have ensued...and they havent. Bottom line, there's no reason to doubt Dinwiddie, as he has nothing to gain whatsoever.

"It's dishonest on the part of the shameless debunkers. How devious they are! I honestly don't know how they can live with themselves."

More of the same mentioned above. Lemme ask you something pal, do you know any debunker who's had significant sightings? How about one who lectured for years on the experiencer phenomenon? I didnt think so. I'm no debunker, I'm just a guy who doesnt want to believe. I want to know.

"That could have been done by anyone. That is no proof that Billy Meier was responsible. If there were any "con men" involved it was probably some sleazey debunkers up to their dirty tricks."

Always back to the debunkers...do you even know what youre talking about? How can a debunker tamper with data when no one but Dilettoso, Stevens and the Elders had access to it? Please...youre really grabbing at the air here. The original investigators submitted these for analysis. Not anyone but them. So...I guess thats your version of debunkers huh? The very people who put forth the case as real? Interesting twist of reality ya got there.

If you think it's "unprovable allegations" then explain the trashcan lid. Explain the focal abnormalities, explain the lack of any distance hazing, the Asket and Nera shots, take your pick...ok how about anything besides the tired old evading of the real questions.

You wanna believe the photos show real ET craft? Be my guest. But dont give me this garbage for an answer to contrary evidence and documentation.




posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by jbondo
This kind of says it all. Jeff, I think you now realize what you're up against.

The lake county aliens must have knocked the server out yesterday.

No offense but these fact against fiction arguments going on and on every other day are getting old.


Damn Jb youre so right. But I guess I'm the type that cares too much. As I think I said, after this show tonight against Horn, I'm done with it. People can believe what they wish, and the body of data I've collected will be submitted to ufowatchdog.com and housed there for all. Which is good, then rather then replying on and on here, I can just post a link.


It'll be good to move onto potentially legitimate cases again.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Fair enough friend. Answer me this, have the videos been debunked? I'm not talking about the pics, but the videos. Can you recreate them? Surely the video of the disappearing and reappearing ship should be easy enough to detect deceit, especially by someone of your caliber. I guess the video of the ship hovering left and right quickly without the requisite wobble could have been pulled off by speeding the film up.

Point me in the direction where the videos have been debunked.

Also, I gave my reasons for not ruling out the reason for foul play involving the trash can lid. I could care less about the ridiculously fake looking pictures. IMO they're not his, I don't care what anyone claims.

Peace


[edit on 8-12-2006 by Dr Love]

[edit on 8-12-2006 by Dr Love]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by jbondo

Originally posted by SkyWay
Has anyone else had trouble logging into this website? I haven't been able to get in here since yesterday until now. Was there a problem with the servers or something?


This kind of says it all. Jeff, I think you now realize what you're up against.

The lake county aliens must have knocked the server out yesterday.

No offense but these fact against fiction arguments going on and on every other day are getting old.


You folks do not believe the truth but you swallow lies without chewing. I don't know what happened yesterday, but I was whenever I tried to get into this website I was getting a sign that said the servers were undergoing maintenance. I figured they were having problems because of the redisign. I don't know what sort of twisted suspicions may be rolling around in your head but that is exactly what happened. You guys are some piece of work. I still don't know what was going on here, but honestly, the thought never occurred to me that it had anything to do with aliens.


If only you knew how ridiculous you look when someone tells you the truth and you don't believe it. I am more convinced now of the lack of good judgement and insight in some of you. No wonder the government isn't forthcoming about ufos.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 02:20 PM
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skyway, you must not have noticed thar the site has been going thru a major overhaul, shutting down access for a period and then making it difficult to access threads from time to time.

Ok, now everyone can get back to debating whether or not Billy's tv and catalogue photos are undeniable proof of Billy Meier's Excellent Alien Adventures Thru Time.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
All it seems anyone can say to the contrary data of the Meier case is laugh, or dismiss the person as a "debunker", rather then concretely address the issue. I have brought up only a small part of those issues...and no one can even address them past statements like this:
"This cannot be taken seriously!"


What do you expect when you claim that images in clear photographs are "trashcan lids" and "luggage clasps"?! Most people who look at the pictures can see for themselves the craft are not those things you claim! You must have different kindsof eyes from everyone else. I mean, we all know what trash lids look like and those things in Meier's photos are not lids. If you don't want to make people laugh then don't be ridiculous. Come on now, don't you feel at least a little like chuckling to yourself when you look at those photos and then try to claim that they are luggage clasps? Hey! Look! That's not a Jumbo Jet..that's a pencil dangling from a string!



"It's dishonest on the part of the shameless debunkers. How devious they are! I honestly don't know how they can live with themselves."

More of the same mentioned above. Lemme ask you something pal, do you know any debunker who's had significant sightings? How about one who lectured for years on the experiencer phenomenon? I didnt think so. I'm no debunker, I'm just a guy who doesnt want to believe. I want to know.


Do I detect a persecution complex there? I never called you a debunker. But it IS interesting that you assumed I was referring to you. Furthermore, if you really wanted to know the truth you would examine more closely the allegations against Billy Meier and, to be absolutely honest, the worst you could conclude about Meier is that the photos he produced are not, nor have they ever been, disproven.


"That could have been done by anyone. That is no proof that Billy Meier was responsible. If there were any "con men" involved it was probably some sleazey debunkers up to their dirty tricks."

Always back to the debunkers...do you even know what youre talking about? How can a debunker tamper with data when no one but Dilettoso, Stevens and the Elders had access to it? Please...youre really grabbing at the air here. The original investigators submitted these for analysis. Not anyone but them. So...I guess thats your version of debunkers huh? The very people who put forth the case as real? Interesting twist of reality ya got there.


There you go with that persecution complex again. Why do you keep identifying with the debunkers? My point above, if you would have read it carefully, is that this was not proof that Billy Meier had anything to do with it, though that is the insinuation.


You wanna believe the photos show real ET craft? Be my guest. But dont give me this garbage for an answer to contrary evidence and documentation.


My friend, I am certainly not going to believe your ludicrous claim that they are "lids" or "luggage clasps." Wow! With stuff like that you do more to discredit yourself rather than Billy Meier. And as for giving you garbage, it is YOU who are giving us garbage-can lids.

And just to show how off the mark you are about being called a debunker, it should be obvious from the quote below, which you left out, but which was part of my post which you quoted above, that I was drawing a line between you and debunkers.

The following is what I wrote:

" Examine the allegations against Meier with more critical thinking and less fear, and you will see through the lies and frame-ups of the deceitful debunkers."

Would I tell you that you could see through the lies of debunkers if I considered you one of them? You really are misreading many things which calls into question what value there may be in any of your assessments.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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God a' mighty SkyWay.

Either your tremendously dense or simply trolling Jeff Ritzmann. That kind of defense of Billy Meier really doesn't look good.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
God a' mighty SkyWay.

Either your tremendously dense or simply trolling Jeff Ritzmann. That kind of defense of Billy Meier really doesn't look good.


You seem to have overlooked the fact that he came to this thread AFTER I did. You missed something that obvious and you call me dense? You seem to be projecting your own fault onto me.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Oh yeah....his pics are awesome...of course!


Take a look at this!:





Look at that pic!!! For Crist sake...are you serious ? What was he thinking when he took that grotesque pic?


www.ufowatchdog.com...

BILLY MEIER

UFO cult leader, claimed contact with Pleiadian aliens. Faked UFO photos and films. Employed props and stop motion/cut photography to make UFOs disappear and reappear on film. Took photos of female claiming it was an alien, photo was actually taken off of a television screen from an episode of the Dean Martin show. The excuse offered when caught red-handed? MIB disinfo, of course! Meier apparently thought no one would figure this out. Photographed magazine pictures of dinosaurs claiming them as proof he traveled back in time. Also has photos showing him with a 'laser gun' - laughable at best and just painful to look at. Meier has supporters, many whom have cashed in on books, videos, and lectures about Meier's UFO hoax. It's amazing that some idiots still defend this hoax...again, you know who you are. If you want to believe in something badly enough, you'll justify it as reality any way possible - especially when the bottom line dollar is at stake. Beware of delusional people trying to use UFOs as a religion or as a way to get into your wallet. SEE: Picture of UFO model used by Meier and Short Piece on Meier and the article The Camera Never Lies? Also see Meier's "official" media rep Michael Horn's website devoted to championing Meier at the expense of all sanity and the official Billy Meier website. You can also see the whacky photos of a Meier UFO here at this laughable attempt to lend credence to the case. It's painful how anyone could keep a striaght face and promote this silly case. Those promoting Meier claim to be offering life saving information for the survival of the human race - yep, that's why they charge for DVDs, books, videos, and lectures. Beware of those selling prophets for profit.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Orion437
Look at that pic!!! For Crist sake...are you serious ? What was he thinking when he took that grotesque pic?


LOL...thats standard fare in the Meier case. As you can take note, Skyway didnt refer to disproving anything I've said not provided, but rather latches onto personal issues and more diatribe and twisted logic. For the record Skyboy, when you equate time after time someone's comments to debunkers, then you might as well call them one. You might wanna write that one down.

Again, it's all standard Meierite fare. They dont dispute what you say, but rather go off on tangents and arguments with all sort of logical fallacies, like they dont have to prove something real...you have to prove it isnt. What kind of twisted thinking is this anyway?

Doc-
The films? Youre kidding me right? You've not seen the same ship "jump" when the branch is moving when the ship is there and suddenly stops when the ship "jumps"? How about the difference in light from the ship's "jump"?? Please dude, it's blatently obvious the camera was stopped and the ship removed, then repositioned and switched on again.

There's even one piece of footage that shows the double exposed frame due to stopping the camera and restarting.

I've covered all this here before. Duplication is so not necessary when there's such evident flaws in the films.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

LOL...thats standard fare in the Meier case. As you can take note, Skyway didnt refer to disproving anything I've said not provided, but rather latches onto personal issues and more diatribe and twisted logic. For the record Skyboy, when you equate time after time someone's comments to debunkers, then you might as well call them one. You might wanna write that one down.

Again, it's all standard Meierite fare. They dont dispute what you say, but rather go off on tangents and arguments with all sort of logical fallacies, like they dont have to prove something real...you have to prove it isnt. What kind of twisted thinking is this anyway?


It isn't too much to ask for proof of your claims. That's what skeptics do. You make the claim that Billy Meier's photos are fake. If you make a positive assertion like that it is natural to ask for proof that your statement is true. And you try hard. But you haven't proven the Meier photos are fake as you assert. But, hey, no one can prove that something which is real is fake. Your own inability to prove that Meier's photos are fake, even after trying so hard, is more testimony to their authenticity.

Let's face it Jeff, there are "others" here on our planet...and Meiers has shown some of their tech-ability with his photos of their craft.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 08:59 PM
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Believe what you wish bucko. Again you dont address anything, but more double speak.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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I'll say this for you Jeff....you make some pretty good toys. At this time of year that is a good skill to have. Santa could use a few more good toy makers.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 10:44 PM
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It appears skyway is towing the party line. Could Mr. Horn be behind the antagonistic skyway?
Since it seems that the blind obedience to the Meier doctrine would lead one to suggest some sort of mind control let me guess that persons such as skyway have some sort of reality based on false premises which they have adopted as their own.
You've done more than your share of proving Meier the fraud JRitzman. There'll always be folks that just don't get it(note: they likely voted for Bush twice).

Reality. What a concept.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by cheepnis
You've done more than your share of proving Meier the fraud JRitzman. There'll always be folks that just don't get it(note: they likely voted for Bush twice).


Tell me about it. I dont know exactly how I feel about how this show tonight went, I got alot of stuff out, but Horn spewed his usual nonsense with unnamed sources, and just company names...who more then likely if I'd call have no idea what I'm talking about.

The bad part was I didnt get to half of what I wanted to cover, some really interesting stuff on the sound and other stuff. What aggravted me the most was I kept quiet while Horn talked and the minute I got my turn I was interrupted...really pissed me off. The man has no common courtesy, next time I wont either. We're supposed to be back after the holidays.



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Dr Love

Point me in the direction where the videos have been debunked.


Here ya go, Dr Love :
thebiggestsecret.online.fr...

The video for the Wedding Cake ship can be found about a third of the way down.

You can even see the craft pendulum in the wind at one point just by watching the video. No outside opinion needed there!



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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Let's not turn the thread into a member slug fest -- OK. It happens too many times and the thread subject becomes the background.

I'm not sure myself re the presentation facts, that's why I posted the thread.. to get input and help from members interested in researching answers to the parts of interest, to determine in some minds if there true or false.

The presenter Mr Winter's and his credibility I feel was a great place to slice into the presentation after DrLove asked about him. Can we continue now please. Thanks

Dallas



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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Here's one of the photos I presented last night on the radio. It shows the aspect of the model ufo posed with/or wired to a small model style tree. One from early shots and one from later ones. You can see the degradation of the tree over time, however you can compare the identical characteristics of the "tree" in both shots. Such similarities to such a degree, dont happen in nature.

Of course Horn says the photos have been looked at by forestry professors and it's been found to be a real tree, due to the pruing marks on each side (which btw, line up on both trees shown here). Well, one can guarantee they werent shown these pictures together, and I question whether or not the claim is even true based on what I've seen of Horn's claims of expert testimony.

One question comes to mind: why is a tree (presumably a wild tree) out in the middle of a field pruned?

Of course this "tree" no longer exists today, much like the original Meier photos/negatives and films.





posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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That tree in the photo on the right looks real to me, not like a model at all. But of course anyone can claim that just about anything in a photo is a model even if it is real.

What I find really interesting in that photo on the right is the ufo, and how it fits perfectly the description of the "saucer" that Bob Lazar saw at area 51. I believe Lazar tagged it as a "Sport Model." When there are independent sources that support each other like that it is good evidence that they are telling/showing something that is true.

[edit on 9-12-2006 by SkyWay]



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 10:54 PM
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JRitzman- is that the same tree as the one in the pedulum vid?(sic)
That one also dissappeared when investigators showed up.

Skyway- you're just clueless. Try doing some research. Depending on others to do the work is lazy and doesn't speak well of your character.



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