Thousands dead. What are you going to do about it?

I didn't start this thread for a debate on who is behind 9/11. So if you disagree with my beliefs, please use restraint and don't fill the thread with comments that will take value from the topic.

There is no doubt in my mind that our government was behind 9/11. This is my belief, and the belief of many of you on this forum. I'm not here to debate it. This debate is over for me. The verdict has already been made. I know enough world history to identify the patterns. I know enough about the world's energy crises to know why. I've been lied to by enough people to recognize a liar on tv. I did enough studying in psychology to recognize the mind games they're using. For many decades now, our government has been doing its homework on how to influence public opinion to win elections and to keep the peace while it works in the interest of business and power. And I find it very pathetic how easy they accomplish an act like 9/11 while most of the people in this country continue to get lost in their alcohol drinking, video game playing, reality tv watching, porn surfing, distractful lives.

So, you believe as I do? Then here's the question for this thread. What now?

There are thousands of people dead, and at a minimum, tens of thousands hurt by the loss of loved ones. All done, by the government that should be protecting us.

What are you going to do about it?

This is the government that our founding fathers warned us about. They gave us the right to bear arms, for this reason. What are you going to do?

Here's what I think you will do. You're going to get pissed off. You're going to vent to friends and get on forums like this to be heard. You might day-dream of rebelling against the government, but the truth is, you wont. You will go back to work on Monday like nothing ever happened. Because you are not willing to give up your plasma watching, 23" wheel riding lifestyle to stand up against this.

How far must our government go before we act? Do they actually have to jeopardize your life specifically before you will act? And if they do, do you think other Americans will stand up to protect you?

What are you going to do about it? Nothing.

Yeah, me neither.

Again, I didn't start this thread for a debate on whether our government caused 9/11. So if you disagree please use restraint and don't fill the thread with comments that will take value from the topic.

Hey man excellent post and I say you still get 3 skeptics defending her honor.

With all the extra goodies since 9/11 it's almost like they're daring us to do something about it. Ironically, I was formulating part of the answer as you were formulating the question.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

option#2: die trying to prove the no plane theory

Thanks for the feedback, HaveSeen4Myself.

"What are you going to do about it?"

I'll be honest, I'm too scared to do anything. The only thing I seriously considered was ideas to help get the truth out there. But I never followed through.

It is as John Edgar Hoover said.

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."

When you know the world you're living in hinges on massive lies and violence to keep it propped up, you are essentially helpless to correct it.

The solutions required and the fallout that would ensue to "fix" our world from these conspirators are most likely so great that nobody is willing to sacrifice what they have just to live in a world of real justice. Violent revolution, possible breakdown of society, there is no good or peaceful way to end such tyranny.

Also note that this isn't the world of the founding fathers of the United States of America. They lived at a time when a section of the population were actual slaves and the government had essentially the same weaponry as their constituency. I don't believe they knew justice themselves, but at least the citizens had a chance against government firepower. In today's world the military industrial complex and its myriad of known and secret heavy artillery make citizen militias laughable.

In all honesty, I'm not afraid to do something.

The only problem is, I don't know what to do. The government is too big and too powerful to deal with. One person can't do it alone. If, somewhere down the road, some type of group or organization with enough power and influence to do something about the government was formed, I'd join or do whatever I could to help in a second, no matter the dangers involved.

I'm currently involved in a web project to show people the truth of 9/11. It's not like all other 9/11 conspiracy sites. It's not some conspiracy nut driven website. It's got just the basics layed out, completely researched, and backed by facts. There's another area where my website is unique with the 9/11 topic, but I won't say it because I don't want my idea being taken.

But, like I said, I'm willing, and trying, to do something, but one person can't do it alone. Something needs to be done and fast before 'they' completely rot the democratic values and freedoms that this country was built on.

I am now 100% convinced that 9/11 was orchestrated by our government. The thing is, I don't know what to do about it. If a resistance group was formed that aimed to take over the government, there would need to be alot of people. To stand up to the might of the US military in our domestic homeland would take quite a bit of manpower and firepower.

Originally posted by Mindzi
To stand up to the might of the US military in our domestic homeland would take quite a bit of manpower and firepower.

I can't see our military standing up to a resistence group formed to bring justice to the people in our government because they represent and defend the American people, not the government.

Maybe they would follow orders, I don't know for sure obviously.

But, I'm just saying, it seems kind of hard to believe that they would forcefully defend against a resistence group formed by Americans who's only purpose is over-throwing a corrupt and murdering government.

Welcome to the Matrix people. We need a Saviour. No matter how many lies surround us, the TRUTH exists and one day will deliver us.

That which is too big to handle will one day come across something bigger then it.

Originally posted by TheyAreWatching

Originally posted by Mindzi
To stand up to the might of the US military in our domestic homeland would take quite a bit of manpower and firepower.

I can't see our military standing up to a resistence group formed to bring justice to the people in our government because they represent and defend the American people, not the government.

Maybe they would follow orders, I don't know for sure obviously.

But, I'm just saying, it seems kind of hard to believe that they would forcefully defend against a resistence group formed by Americans who's only purpose is over-throwing a corrupt and murdering government.

No offense intended, but do you honestly think the government would just stand down and allow themselves to be overthrown? Of course not. The government is in direct control of our military, if they issue an order, that order will be carried out.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Mindzi]

Originally posted by Mindzi
No offense intended, but do you honestly think the government would just stand down and allow themselves to be overthrown? Of course not. The government is in direct control of our military, if they issue an order, that order will be carried out.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Mindzi]

No, of course I don't think the government would stand down. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that the military would follow such orders. Of course it's not impossible, but it's still hard to believe. If the military doesn't follow through, there really isn't much the government can do after that is there?

I have done very little other than try to formulate my own opinion on what exactly happened on that day. I have written my congressmen and senators with inquires for another independent investigation into the original 9/11 committee. I have requested many pieces of information from the government under the FoIA (mostly to no avail). I vote. Beyond that, what else IS there to do.

I think that's the bigger question ... not what am I going to do, but why can I only do so little to help me come to a conclusion.

I think you should be asking the same question Not A Lemming, even though you have your mind made up ... why CAN'T you do something about your beliefs of what happened? That's the real issue ...

Originally posted by TheyAreWatching

Originally posted by Mindzi
No offense intended, but do you honestly think the government would just stand down and allow themselves to be overthrown? Of course not. The government is in direct control of our military, if they issue an order, that order will be carried out.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Mindzi]

No, of course I don't think the government would stand down. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that the military would follow such orders. Of course it's not impossible, but it's still hard to believe. If the military doesn't follow through, there really isn't much the government can do after that is there?

Correct. My opinion is that resistance members and would-be resistance members would be labeled as domestic terrorists, especially if they sought to overthrow the government by force. Once you are labeled a terrorist, I don't think the military would have much problem gunning you down in the name of America and "freedom". At least, that is what they would be fed.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Mindzi]

Originally posted by Mindzi
Correct. My opinion is that resistance members and would-be resistance members would be labeled as domestic terrorists, especially if they sought to overthrow the government by force. Once you are labeled a terrorist, I don't think the military would have much problem gunning you down in the name of America and "freedom". At least, that is what they would be fed.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Mindzi]

Ah I see where you're coming from. Although I would hope the military would side with a resistence group, I can unfortunately see your scenario happening as well.

If the question is, "Am I willing to do something about it?" the answer is conditional. I'm not willing to lose what I have, to make little to no difference. I am, however, willing to lose everything to make an important difference.

Don't be fooled, there is nothing that our government wouldn't do to preserve itself. How far would it go? As far as it takes. How many Americans would die? As many as it takes. And not one less than that.

What we need to understand is that wars aren't won by military power. They are won by psychological power. Our government, with its entire armory, could NOT have taken over Iraq, if it didn't first go to war with the minds of its own citizens. Hence, 9/11.

Billion dollar planes and laser guided missiles shouldn't intimidate any American who considers fighting our government. It's the psychological warfare that we need to fear. Go ahead and make yourself a threat. You'll be hung, so to speak, right in front of the people you're fighting for. The government will destroy your credibility with astonishing ease. The media will "unbiasly" have you labeled as some extremist, terrorist, drug dealer, child molester... take your pick. And everyone that you thought was on your side, will be cheering as they hang you, because you and your lawyer will be no match for the well oiled, government psychie machine.

There is a good side to this, though. We can compete in a psychological war. I think we can fight back, and win. I wouldn't attempt to overthrow the government. That would create more problems than it would solve. But regaining some control by a well planned fight can be done.

What steps would be needed? I'll make an attempt at a first draft, right now. First we would need an organization of some sort. This can be problematic in many ways, but it is needed. Second, within this organization, achievable objectives would need to be identified. What do we want to accomplish? Do we want to hold those that are responsible accountable for their actions? Do we want to restructure the government to re-establish needed "checks and balances"? Third, there must be well planned purposeful steps that advance us towards our objectives. These must be identified. And last, the war itself. Great restraint must be taken in this kind of fight. What are the rules of engagement? What risks are we willing to make and when?

We are many and we are smart. But are we disciplined enough to organize and commit to relatively long time lines and slow progress? Because picking up a bunch of guns and heading towards the capitol building wouldn't accomplish anything. Not to mention that the government has much better weapons, in that kind of fight.

tip a 40 on the curb for the fallen? What should I do about it? I believe too that it was a complete conspiracy. But on the other hand humans are not an endangerd species. Millions of people die each and every day from a variety of things and I am supposed to care about a few thousand?

Boy this might irk people off at me. OK sorry for the coldness of it all It was a horrible loss on that day. I couldent agree more. But I got my own selfish self centered world to run. I will freely admit that. The day may come when a united political front wages a word war against the government. When that day comes I will stand allong side you and defend the ideals that made this country great to start with. And I will oppose those who wish to poison and destroy my freedom.

Not A Lemming, excellent post

I completely agree with you.

Makes me want to start up an organization right now

But, seriously, you are right in many ways. A plan would need to be layed out, steps taken, and little by little, use these psychological tactics to expose the truth, while being patient and using restraint, backing up our claims with hard evidence and facts, and not jumping to wild conclusions in desperate efforts to influence people's opinions. Eventually, these measures will pay off.

I hope that some day (soon) an organization like this is formed, and I for one will be there right along side many here at ATS and all across the country to make this happen, no matter how long it takes.

TheyAreWatching, Thank you.

I would be right there, as well.

However, I would be cautious to give any group power. A serious determination of the group’s intent, rules, and its own checks-and-balances would be needed. Not easy, is it? It makes me want to start something myself so I could ensure these things.


Frith, excellent quotes. Is the second one yours?

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."

When you know the world you're living in hinges on massive lies and violence to keep it propped up, you are essentially helpless to correct it.

Originally posted by Not A Lemming
However, I would be cautious to give any group power. A serious determination of the group’s intent, rules, and its own checks-and-balances would be needed.

Definately.

As is evident of our government, when you give a group or individual too much power, they often will turn it into making their own personal gains. So, yes, as you said, rules and intent would have to be layed out clearly.

It's a difficult task, but, I think it's worth the battle. If I knew where to start or had some kind of influence to get others to follow me, I'd start right now.

Originally posted by Not A Lemming
Frith, excellent quotes. Is the second one yours?

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."

When you know the world you're living in hinges on massive lies and violence to keep it propped up, you are essentially helpless to correct it.

The one without quotes around it is my own words.

As much as hate Hoover, some of his statements do ring true.

Originally posted by Not A Lemming
We are many and we are smart. But are we disciplined enough to organize and commit to relatively long time lines and slow progress? Because picking up a bunch of guns and heading towards the capitol building wouldn't accomplish anything. Not to mention that the government has much better weapons, in that kind of fight.

I've liked everything you said so far in this thread, but the answer to that question is ... no. There may be a hundred of us, a thousand of us, one hundred thousand of us. But that is simply not enough. To take on something of that nature you would have to open alot of unwilling eyes and torch through alot of rusty chains. Even with the general sense of overall resentment towards the government by the people of the United States, the average citizen is not willing to go to those measures to resolve this conflict. Chalk it up to laziness, being uninformed, not willing to risk what they have, or whatever you want.

I am not saying that it can't or shouldn't be done ... I'm just saying that the road is very difficult. But then again, nothing worth having ever comes without a price ...