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Now is the time for all good ATS'ers to come to the aid of their country

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posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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My fellow citizens, we have endured a decade which has been anything but the best of times. Sadly, the road ahead is paved with even greater challenges. We the people have allowed our elected officials to lose sight of America's best interests. Issues such as terrorism, homeland security, diplomacy, military action, cover-ups, immigration, election reform, environmental, defense contracts, civil liberties, and accountability have not been handled for the good of the people. Will there even be an election in 2008 or will the curfew be in place by then?

By openly catering to nepotism and big business, our leaders are sending us a message loud and clear, "We're untouchable." Dividing voters by age, race, religion, party, and special interests, while their agendas remain eerily similar has always been extremely effective. We the people can find common enough ground to make a stand and restore the state of the union. (Before we merge with Mexico/Canada?)

The easiest and most effective way to get the point across is to announce our demands and stay at home. We just pick a date or an event (attackinging Iran, etc) then stay home and make phone calls...for as many days as it takes. No current law would be broken and it seems like the patriotic thing to do.
Will it fly Orville?




posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:05 AM
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What do you have against the North American Union? I see it as a new beginning for North America, it will be great for everyone. I understand people are afraid of change and fear an influx of citizens from Mexico but they fail to take into account the effects of introducing a new currency. One of the biggest reasons these citizens come to America is to earn dollars, with a new currency prices of goods will be similar and we could install a minimum wage throughout the Union to encourage better living. There would be no need for them to move to America as they will be able to live a decent life at home with their family. The citizens of Mexico already here will become legal and this will help the economy even more as more taxes will be paid and industry will be able to survive. I have noticed many companies that rely on these workers have had to shut down, with the Union this will no longer happen. The tourism industry will also benefit as the hassle of obtaining Visas will be eliminated for the three countries, Mexican citizens will be able to visit their family in America and vice versa, it just makes sense.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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There is no cause, reason, or justification for the infusion of Mexico and Canada into America (which is the way it would go down), not to mention the destruction of our national sovernty and Constitution.

I can promise blood and violence on an order you've yet to see if this North American Union comes to pass, and I'll be there on the front lines willing to kill any who oppose the maintaining of America and our Constitution.

It's not a matter of fearing change, but a Communist global mindset that I, for one, will not stand for.

Period.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by DraconianKing
What do you have against the North American Union? I see it as a new beginning for North America, it will be great for everyone. I understand people are afraid of change and fear an influx of citizens from Mexico but they fail to take into account the effects of introducing a new currency.

Yes, the further devaluation of the dollar as it is balanced against the former currencies of Canada and mexico, creating an instant third world economy.


Originally posted by DraconianKing
One of the biggest reasons these citizens come to America is to earn dollars, with a new currency prices of goods will be similar and we could install a minimum wage throughout the Union to encourage better living.

See the above.


Originally posted by DraconianKing
There would be no need for them to move to America as they will be able to live a decent life at home with their family.
Wrong, there would be instant revolution in mexico as the drug lords and a certain family that controls 98% of mexico's economy decide that they want to keep power.


Originally posted by DraconianKing
The citizens of Mexico already here will become legal and this will help the economy even more as more taxes will be paid and industry will be able to survive.

I personally know that they will protest because many of them that do pay taxes are single males, claiming five-nine dependants on their W-4. They would refuse to pay more taxes because they are expected to act according to the law.


Originally posted by DraconianKing
I have noticed many companies that rely on these workers have had to shut down, with the Union this will no longer happen.

I, personally have noticed that the companies that shut down are the ones that cannot compete with the corporations hiring illegal workers.


Originally posted by DraconianKing
The tourism industry will also benefit as the hassle of obtaining Visas will be eliminated for the three countries, Mexican citizens will be able to visit their family in America and vice versa, it just makes sense.


The tourism industry would immediately hire illegal aliens from Guatemala and every other country because, under your solution, the mexican workers would now be too expensive to maintain their corporate profit margins. Also, the prices of tourism would climb through the roof in that area of the world.

Take off the rose tinted communist/globalist glasses and get an education beyond high school, take a world economics class, study social politics, it didn't work in the soviet union, it's already showing signs of not working in the EU and it won't work here.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by 2stepsfromtop]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
Now is the time for all good ATS'ers to come to the aid of their country

My fellow citizens...


Not all ATS'ers live in the same country as you do. ATS is an international community.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:28 PM
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The thing is, none of us ever got a chance to vote for such a humongous change. Nor has Joe CitiZen been able to have any input into this, such as who's Constitution will we follow? Will we create a new one? I think the old one works just fine, as long as it is actually FOLLOWED, which admittedly is not the case these days.

Not only that, but the guy that actually won the election in Mexico has been sidelined and the U.S. has installed thier own puppet president there. So, already they're doing things in a most undemocratic way.

No, it's not a good thing at all, not at all.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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I strongly oppose the 'N.A. Union' because the ONLY people who could possibly benefit is big business. The influx of hispanics to my area since 1995 has been devastating to the local economy. This was further exaggerated by companies being offered incentives to move to Mexico. The end result was a double whammy; lower wages and less jobs. Enough is enough already. The residential construction trades and fast food jobs have been completely taken over by hispanics. Most of them will share a house and a vehicle between ten or more people. Instead of money being injected back into the local economy, the biggest portion is sent to their families in Mexico.

The roads aren't as safe because often times stop lights and right of way are ignored. I have personally been on the receiving end of four vehicles being totalled in incidents involving hispanics and my wife was almost killed on an on-ramp last year as she collided with a car backing around a blind curve. They took their license plate and ran away as more cars piled in. Hispanics will often attempt to flee the scene of an accident, and auto insurance has been negatively affected. Due to the sheer number of incidents, law enforcement no longer has the responsibility to determine who is at fault. Lucky drivers and claims adjusters are left to hash it out, resulting in lengthy settlements and much frustration.

Speaking english is not a priority for our hispanic friends, and the language barrier is another constant juggernaut. Public education and court systems are hindered greatly as a result and the implications are far reaching.

I could go on at great length with more examples of the negative effects. As far as Canada goes, I don't see a problem. But Canada isn't really the issue here now is it?



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Umbrax

Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
Now is the time for all good ATS'ers to come to the aid of their country

My fellow citizens...


Not all ATS'ers live in the same country as you do. ATS is an international community.


Spot on. Heeeeeeellllllloooooo America. There is a world beyond your borders and this is an international forum.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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I don't mean to sound confrontational in my first post, but, Umbrax and rizla, why bother posting in the thread if it has nothing to do with you? Just wondering is all. I'm not trying to start anything.

Anyway, about this North American Union..

The North American Union will not be a "new beginning" in the sense that it will be good for all parties involved. That's simply not the case. It's a move to destroy the constitution of the United States, while having access to Canada's and Mexico's resources. It's not to make things better. It's to gain more power over the citizens and shove more money in the pockets of the elite here in the United States.

The U.S. government doesn't follow the constitution now, what makes you think they're going to write up a fair constitution for the North American Union?

The only new beginning here is the oppurtunity for them to gain the complete militarized control over the continent so that they can accelerate their goals of achieving militarized control over the entire world.

This move isn't about us. When is anything our "elected" officials do about us? It's about their agendas, their profits, and their power. Nothing more. Nothing less.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by HaveSeen4Myself
As far as Canada goes, I don't see a problem. But Canada isn't really the issue here now is it?

That could be because you aren't on the Canadian side of things.

I hate to break it to you, but us Canucks feel about the same way towards joining the US as you feel about joining Mexico.

We currently enjoy a higher average standard of living. We have tighter laws on enviromental and public health issues. We have socialistic elements that we are very proud of. We have beautiful natural resources that we treasure and want to preserve in their natural state. We have a slightly different culture that we want to maintain. We are MUCH more liberal up here... and that's exactly the way I like it. I would hate to see us lose control of our millitary. Canada's role as peacekeepers would be jepordized if we had stronger connections to the US.

I know this might be hard for you to shallow, but as a Canadian I see joining the US as a terrible move for us, culturally, ecconomicly, and internationally.

Kinda funny how the grass can be greener on your own side, eh?



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
I know this might be hard for you to shallow, but as a Canadian I see joining the US as a terrible move for us, culturally, ecconomicly, and internationally.


It's not hard for me to swallow, even as an extremely patriotic American.

Canada would lose complete control. Canada would be completely militarized and fall under the much stricter, less freedoms constitution that would be written.

Your natural resources would be taken advantage of for the sake of profit for our high ranking officials. Your military would no longer be peacekeepers. Your standard of living would be choked off as ours is starting to be.

Canada and Mexico will have absolutely no say in what goes on in the North American Union.

The only winners in this situation are the U.S. government and the Mexican citizens. The Mexican citizens are so poor that even a dictatorship union would be an improvement in their lives.

Canada's peaceful image would be no more. Mexico's poor image would be no more. The United States free image would be no more. All three would form a new dictatorship, military controlled, war hungry, corrupt, criminally run image that the powers in Washington want it to be.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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I don't see the north american union happening, bush my press for it as he wants this bad, bring europe in one, bring north america in one and then unite them under one single constitution, this I think is the plan, and then cause reasons for war, who dare attack such a big state, this is what globalisation really is, I think the EU is good for us europians in some perspectives, but I'm well aware on what the EU means, it's just a ingridiant for the rest of the soop, this is a long proccess, they will push and push until they get it done, once the EU and the North american union is established 100% the big unification will take place, then war will break out for sure, in the future there will be the rich(corporate whores) and the slaves(us the people) Traditions and culture will disapear, any sovereign trace as a country will go away, I can just picture it, eating some pills as my food given to me by the corporation, while the corporation guys feast on natural food.
Corporation crap is the perfect coverup for comunism, I can say that corporation= comunism.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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I don't blame you one "bit", BitRaiser. I wasn't implying that Canadians would be willing participants at all. All you stand to gain are a few felons who couldn't otherwise cross the border and more traffic. I'm painfully aware of how the U.S. is perceived and I don't take that as an insult, but appreciate your brutal honesty. I hope that Canada, as well as the world community realize that America is under attack from within.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Don't get me wrong... I've met alot of great Americans and I have a load of respect for what the US founding fathers attempted to do. I find it sad and disturbing that so much of what was great and grand in the original vision has been corrupted and circumvented by unabashed greed.

What's truly tragic is that it's not a state of affairs exclusive to the US. Greed has become the dominant force in western culture. Everything these days seems to be focused on getting more money, more bling, more whatever. Very few people are content to simply have "enough" or make other things their priorities.

Greed is pounded into us by pop-culture at every turn. We're constantly bombarded with messages that say your worth is based on your ecconomic value. If you aren't rich, beautiful, and/or famous, you are nothing.

I despise that message.

We, as people, need to start working to undermine it any way we can. Simply talking to people about it helps. Displaying understand for those who have less than we do is a big step. Exercising reverse market buying is powerful (ie, when you see big flashy ads for a product, STOP buying it). Question everything you see in the media. Keep an open mind. Abandon traditional blind faith in institutions.
Think for yourself.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 01:13 AM
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your right. tthis greed is out of hand. classes of people, some people just think there shii, don't stink. no matter what country they are in. it is one thing to be rich , but it is another to treat your people or people like dirt and spit on them in the process. this sickens me. we all have a job to do on this planet. no matter what it is. wether you take out the trash or manage huge companies money or whatever the case , we all have our place in society. but it sickens me to demean the little guy. we need to kick these ass- hol out of our country, and put them somewhere else and do something about these people. a joinning of a union. sounds nice, just remember the civil war when you want a large change like this. i hope america or whatever works out. god knows we have too many people in the usa already. and too many people in the world. we need to downsize like china.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 01:29 AM
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Exactly, BitRaiser


Unfortunately, America will never be what our founding fathers envisioned.

I'm sure there are many people who have an interest in being president of the United States and, if elected, would bring to life what America should be about (like me), but the problem is, there are still those private, secret groups with unknown power in our government that, if their greedy demands aren't met, would either frame that president for some crime he/she didn't commit, or, in some cases, assassinate him/her.

That's the main reason why I never see the United States being what it should be and could have been.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Look to the major banking institutions to find the source of the issues with America.

The Federal Reserve is a good start.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 10:50 PM
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(lemme see if I can remember everything I just typed... arg! I hate it when connections time out...)

BitRaiser -- I agree with you completely.


I find it funny that a secular country, which is primarily Christian, ignores the seven deadly sins. *smirks*

I thought about moving to Canada.. Educational debt aside, I've decided that I cannot leave the sinking ship. Not because I feel some nationalistic patriotic pride, but because I cannot affect change from afar...



Originally posted by TheyAreWatching
Unfortunately, America will never be what our founding fathers envisioned.


I understand your point TAW. The government and those in power may never work towards the values touted by the founding fathers -- I will undeniably grant that.

Those in power would have us practice this cut-throat capitalism because a) it keeps them in power, and b) it teaches people to be greedy and at each other's throats -- which goes against people coming together for practically anything!

However, I do not think we should feel defeated just yet. Change is entirely possible -- but it must come from within, from the people.

We -- you, me, every single individual person, must *enact* the change we wish to take place, not wish for the change to magically take place.

Either we value that we tout, or we tout that which we actually value.

I am of a generation of people taught by immediate gratification -- which does not teach patience, compassion, or self-discipline. It teaches us to spend everything we have, get what we can when we can get it, and screw over as many other cattle that might be in our way.

To me, that is beastial. Not human. Not humane.

We, together, each individual person, must work towards a new set of values -- or at least the old ones: equality, respect/civility, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Of course, first we must figure out what real happiness *is* before working towards it...

And 9 out of 10 people that I talk to *know* that material things do not bring happiness... but they seek these comforts out because it helps them deal with (read: ignore) the current situation. And this only continues the cycle...

Any material good can be lost or stolen... Fame & honor are given and taken at public whim, and are often undeserved. Power is meaningless without people submitting to it, passively or explicitly.

So true happiness cannot come from these avenues.

Of course, if we listen to the media and the government, even society and culture... we are fools to believe this.

...but it's true. And I think people are slowly realizing that fact... (which has actually been around for quite some time...)

Change will not come from those in power... you and I both know that. The system works for them... but it does not work for *everyone* -- and right there is the rub... that is chaffing each citizen.

Thus, the change must come from the citizens...

Then maybe, just maybe, the government will then change its tune -- but not before that day.


JSR

posted on Dec, 7 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
Don't get me wrong... I've met alot of great Americans and I have a load of respect for what the US founding fathers attempted to do. I find it sad and disturbing that so much of what was great and grand in the original vision has been corrupted and circumvented by unabashed greed.


my 2cents
i agree with everything you say, with one exception. i dont believe all of that stuff is created by greed. i think it is created by the philosophy of materialism. which denies the soul, and the connective consciousness of all people. it promotes anything you can touch, taste, and feel as the only thing that matters. this line of thinking leads to the thought of "he who has the most toys at the end, wins". which is a lie.
unfortunatly, that is all that pop culture pumps out.

POP CULTURE IS KILLING US!!
not the manufacturing companies (or whats left of them).
what they sell, people need. what pop culture sells, people dont need.



posted on Dec, 9 2006 @ 10:07 AM
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If you do not live in the U.S., then this thread obviously does not apply to you. What I am suggesting is bringing about change in a non-violent way. The internet is something we all take for granted, but could very well be the next freedom that is taken away under the guise of fighting terrorism. I think that, in the very least, we need a plan of action in case this happens. Perhaps I am in the minority with this school of thought?



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