Originally posted by MrMicrophone
OK folks, let separate the true believers from the posers.
What relation do the Mayan calendar, Nazi symbolism, Freemasonry's Ouroboros and Johannes Kepler share?
No hints yet. Please be specific.
They've been tied together by a lot of folks who don't know much about the subject.
The calendar is just a calendar. It has days, dates, and an ending. It doesn't have any prophecies written on the face of it or around it. It's
just a giant clock. Any prophecies/interpretations come from things that were NOT found with the calendar. They also failed to predict the end of
their civilization (the Mayan civilization collapsed around 1000 AD.) The Aztecs, who picked up the calendar and carved it into stone also failed to
predict a lot of important things.
As a prediction tool, it's about as useful as my Garfield calendar.
And Nazi Symbolism... ye gods... which symbols? They had a bunch of them, from the twin lightning bolts to the swastika and so on and so forth. If
you're trying to change it into Jormungandr (the tree-swallower) of Norse legend, that's a real stretch:
Now, I don't know if that's where you're going, but frankly you need to stop and look at sources before you decide this has any truth to it.
As for the Masons, my dad was one (33rd degree and a Shriner) and my brother was one and so was my first husband. I was in the Eastern Star, so I
know quite a bit about the subject. The "Freemasonry's Ouroboros" is the most absurd thing I've seen. Alchemy had the ouroboros... not
It doesn't matter how often we all say this:
...there's still a lot of stupid web pages by people who have never been within a mile of a Masonic lodge that keep insisting the link is there.
It's part of a badge design for two ranks in one lodge house. My husband had those same ranks and it's not on his office emblems. Or mine. Or in
the lodge (the women help clean the lodge... we know where the Stuff Is Hidden.) Masons aren't in to Kepler or astronomy (as a rule) or calculus.
They don't like Nazis. We aren't interested in gnawing on the tree that holds the world up and we aren't on a grand mission to teach the world to
be civilized. We don't use or believe in the Mayan calendar. We don't care if it's 12 Bakun or whatever.
The Nazis were into Norse mythology, so Jormungander was a minor part but didn't signify knowledge or esoteric teachings. Jormungander's sole
purpose is to gnaw away at the root of the World Tree. They used Kepler's mathematics (and math derived by others who followed him) to calculate
trajectories, but everyone else did, too. They executed Masons. They weren't into Mayans (whom they would have seen as a race to subjugate.) They
didn't find the Gnostic libraries until after Nazi Germany fell... and I don't think the libraries were responsible for the downfall. I think
Eisenhower and his fellow generals were.
Kukulcan was a cultural hero (emblem the winged serpent) of the Mayans and is more akin to Prometheus in that he taught people to be civilized. He
isn't associated with esoteric or hidden learning, he isn't associated with the Masons, and he doesn't gnaw at the root of the tree that holds
Earth so that Earth will fall and the Fimbulwinter can start and if he existed, he lived about 2200 years before Kepler. As far as we can tell, the
Mayans weren't into calculus or Naziism.
Kepler may have had some attachment to the Ouroboros but he certainly didn't write much about it (speculation doesn't mean knowledge). He doesn't
appear to be fascinated by tree-gnawing serpents or cultural heroes ala Prometheus ... and he lived long after the Mayan culture disintegrated and
before the Mayan calendar was discovered or much was known about them. And the Masons didn't exist until 1717, so Kepler wasn't involved with them.
He didn't know about the Nazis but probably wouldn't have approved of them. Gnosticism was before his time.
The Mayans weren't into calculus, Kepler, alchemy, fascism, gnostocism, or Nordic Mythology since their culture was dead and gone by the time all
those came around.
You can force the connections, but when you look deeper you see that the threads run different ways. Now, the connection between the Germans and the
idealized Nordic mythology... that's fascinating and deserves exploring.
The connection between Kepler's personal beliefs and his approach to math...that's fascinating, as is Tycho Brahe's and the group of scholars known
to be interested in both science and alchemy and how that impacted modern science. Fascinating stuff and deserves more exploring.
Kukulcan's transformation from a Hiawatha figure (another culture hero who taught the same thing) to a god is interesting. Looking for an older
culture figure just like him in the Olmecs may point to an original model. And there were some AmerInd figures (Hiawatha) who were real people but
were turned into culture heroes (and maybe some to gods)... following those heroes through languages related to one another -- that could show some
interesting insights about what folks thought when.
But culture bashing stuff together just because you find the symbols similar?
If that's where you're going, then "Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh."
[edit on 5-12-2006 by Indellkoffer]