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Hugo Chavez looks set to be re elected

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posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 06:16 AM
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I wounder if Muaddib is aware that the CIA staged a coupe against Chavez?
I wonder if he understands that much of his "information" is incorrect, spun, or could be media fed mis-information? Has it occured to him that the "organization for human rights" that has laid charges for allegedly seaking revenge on his opponents could easily be a CIA (or other anti-Chevaz) front?

I'd also like to know exactly what's wrong with Castro... I have a cuban friend that thinks he's been a fine leader for a developing nation facing some particularly difficult challenges. Cuba has been a fairly good trade partner for Canada and has never once tried to jack us with things like NAFTA. Cuba cigars are the only ones I'll smoke... and I can get 'em legal at my corner store.


I don't have a problem with Chavez's respect for Castro. Like it or not, Castro has done some very difficult things in his political career... like standing up to the US and surviving!

What I see is a bunch of finger pointing from us Westerners trying to impose our values (yet again) on other people who may or may not share them.

YOU CANNOT claim to be "for peace and Democracy" when you start rattling your sabers over a clean and fair democratic election!

Finaly, just because Hugo said he'd like to be in power as long as Castro has been, it does NOT mean he will be! I'd like to bang Katie Holmes and have hundreds of thousands of remarkably stupid people believe I've reached the second highest level of existance... like Wacko Tome, but that ain't gonna happen.
Chevaz stated that if the will of the people allowed it, he'd like to continue in his office and in the presute of his dream for as long as possible.

I don't see anything wrong with that.




posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 11:00 AM
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I guess with the re-election of Chavez, the supposed CIA coup was a failure? Or maybe there was no coup planned.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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The coup was very well known and was done when Chavez ran for the presidential seat in his second term.

www.rethinkvenezuela.com...

www.zmag.org...

www.usatoday.com...



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Marg,

Excuse me, but, doesn't a coup mean that chavez would have been taken out of office?

So, If chavez was elected and re-elected where is the coup?



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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ProfTom, you could try reading this basic account of what happened.

Or you could watch The Revolution Will Not Be Televised, a documentary made by a film crew who were actually caught up in the events of that day.

Short version: a party of oligarchs with support of Washington tried to replace Chavez, but even the army wouldn't support them. Within 48 hours the coup had collapsed and the army had re-taken the presidential palace.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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Rich23

Amazing. I love how you folks site "wikpedia", a site that can be updated and edited by anyone with any information they want to put there, as the know all site on the internet. Wikpedia has absolutely zero credibility in the world.

Also, you give credence to a "film crew" who just happened to be caught up in the "events of the day" strange how easily you give credibility to these "film crews" and yet on 9/11 all the news we watched and what the media showed us was false. But, let's not go there. Editing is a wonderful thing, i.e.. michael moore.

And please don't site the "alleged CIA documents" on chavez's website, we all know how easy it is to forge documents. But since it's anti-US they must be real.

I forget when signing on to ATS, the U.S. Gov't is the enemy of the world. We are the cause of all the worlds problems. It's all Bush's fault. Blah...blah...blah....

My question remains the same. Where was the coup if this guy was elected by more than 60% of the population?



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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I can't believe you don't know about. i thought it was widely known... You been under a rock or something?



Here you go. A timeline on the BBC about Chavez. They have a large section on Venezuela under Chavez

EDIT: To help you in case your rocky syndrome is deep rooted, it was on the 12th-14th April 2002.

[edit on 6/12/06 by stumason]



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by ProfTom
Rich23

Amazing. I love how you folks site "wikpedia", a site that can be updated and edited by anyone with any information they want to put there, as the know all site on the internet. Wikpedia has absolutely zero credibility in the world.


I followed news of the coup as it happened, and researched it a little myself since. The Wiki account is pretty accurate by my estimation, and was simple and easy to read. I thought you just didn't know much about it, not that you were in denial. In the less than two days it existed, the coup "government" was recognised by one, and only one, country in the world. Care to hazard a guess as to which country that might have been?

Your comments about 9/11 and Michael Moore have no relevance here. The film crew were from Ireland, and were independents. They had no axe to grind, but they got some great footage.


And please don't site the "alleged CIA documents" on chavez's website, we all know how easy it is to forge documents. But since it's anti-US they must be real.


I didn't cite any such documents. Of course I know how easy it is to forge documents: the forgeries about Iraq trying to obtain yellowcake were forged, but then, they were spotted really easily - although that didn't stop them influencing the infamous State of the Union speech, of course.


I forget when signing on to ATS, the U.S. Gov't is the enemy of the world. We are the cause of all the worlds problems. It's all Bush's fault. Blah...blah...blah....


If you want to stick your fingers in your ears and sing "la la la la laaaaa" when people point out salient facts in the history of US foreign policy, you have every right to do so. On the other hand, it simply leaves you open to the charge of denying reality, which, as we well know, has something of a liberal bias



My question remains the same. Where was the coup if this guy was elected by more than 60% of the population?


This question leads me to conclusions about you that the T&C of this site prevent me from stating. Your question makes no sense. Are you saying the coup didn't happen, in defiance of abundant evidence to the contrary? Are you saying that it couldn't have happened, because he was re-elected by a sizeable majority? Because if you are, this is simply illogical. The coup was conducted by a small number of people, who lacked popular support, and, crucially, the support of large sections of the army, which is why it collapsed. The idea that a) the existence of a coup, and b) Chavez' success in elections, are mutually exclusive simply makes no sense.

If you are going to reiterate the question, please try and couch it in meaningful terms.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by ProfTom
Marg,

Excuse me, but, doesn't a coup mean that chavez would have been taken out of office?

So, If chavez was elected and re-elected where is the coup?


If you read the accounts of the coup you will know that Chavez was taken to jail and the opposition took temporary control of the nation.

The people stood in masses and liberated Chavez from the jail.

Guess where the opposition had to go to run too, US, while others were taken under custody by Chavez once he took office again.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Marg, did you take a look at all at those two links to videos i gave previously in Spanish?

BTW, to the member claiming that i must be another of those westerners trying to impose western standards, i am a Cuban/American, who was born, lived in Cuba and was indoctrinated with the rest of the Cuban kids. i saw what the regime does and know from experience what happens in Communist regimes, so please next time try to find the facts before you make any claims, thanks.

In the videos that I gave a link to you also find news stories as to what was happening in Venezuela during the time Chavez has been in office...and again richyboy is disregarding the information about the laws passed after Chavez got in power which makes certain he will be staying in power for as long as he wants... after all, he himself has said that he wants to be in power for as long as castro has been in power.

One last thing, Rich, next time you feel the urge to name call anyone, including me, look at the mirror and scream all you want, but keep those comments out of the topic....

[edit on 6-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 12:14 AM
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Again, I'll take that as an admission that you have no rebuttal to the facts I presented. You were caught red-handed in an attempt to use dubious statistics to blame Chavez for events that took place before he came to power. It's all just part of denying ignorance.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by rich23
Again, I'll take that as an admission that you have no rebuttal to the facts I presented. You were caught red-handed in an attempt to use dubious statistics to blame Chavez for events that took place before he came to power. It's all just part of denying ignorance.


You can take whatever the heck you want to take and try to twist it all you want. You keep doing the same, but the facts will not change. You think highly of Chavez which you have mentioned several times in other posts, yet you seem to want to ignore even statements which CHAVEZ HIMSELF HAS GIVEN IS SPANISH..... Perhaps your lack of understanding of the Spanish language is the reason for your "ignorance" of the events and the actions taken by Chavez.

[edit on 8-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

If you read the accounts of the coup you will know that Chavez was taken to jail and the opposition took temporary control of the nation.

The people stood in masses and liberated Chavez from the jail.

Guess where the opposition had to go to run too, US, while others were taken under custody by Chavez once he took office again.


Is that the same people who were shot by Chavez's thugs as they were protesting against him?....

Yes...there were, and there are people who back Chavez and there were and are people from Venezuela who are against Chavez and have been demonstrating against him for a long time.....

i see some members trying to deny the fact that probably half of Venezuela is against Chavez... The oposition has gathered as many people as the "pro-Chavez crowd" in demonstrations and rallies, and in some instances the oposition has had more people gathering to protest against Chavez and asking for his resignation but as Chavez said in one of the videos I gave, he will never give up, even if 90% of the votes are gathered of Venezuelans asking for his resignation.... and the information of anyone who signed the referendum for his resignation will be kept by his regime and has been used against these people for speaking against Chavez.... but then some people want to claim "Chavez is fighting for the people" and "he is a good man".... I have heard "pro-Chavez" people also say that they will never allow anyone to make Chavez resign, and those who try to make CHavez resign will either have to kill them or they will die trying.....




[edit on 8-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

i see some members trying to deny the fact that probably half of Venezuela is against Chavez...


Dude, or dudette, whichever it may be, what the hell are you on? Chavez just won the election with 60% of the vote. It has been declared fair and peaceful, no one is contesting it, even your beloved US-backed opposition. How then can you even claim that Chavez is there without the support of the people?

Your in denial, simple as. You cannot accept the fact that Chavez won the election and your trying to squirm.

No one is denying anything, because the election speaks for itself. Get over it.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

Dude, or dudette, whichever it may be, what the hell are you on? Chavez just won the election with 60% of the vote. It has been declared fair and peaceful, no one is contesting it, even your beloved US-backed opposition. How then can you even claim that Chavez is there without the support of the people?

Your in denial, simple as. You cannot accept the fact that Chavez won the election and your trying to squirm.

No one is denying anything, because the election speaks for itself. Get over it.


Are you trying to deny that millions of Venezuelans have tried to get Chavez to resign from office several times now?....

Are you trying to deny that still there are Millions of Venezuelans that want Chavez out?.....

Are you trying to deny that after Chavez went into power, the constitution of Venezuela was rewritten, and even when the law says that if enough Venezuelans vote for a referendum against Chavez he would have to resign, but Chavez himself has said that if there was a 90% vote for referendum against him, he wouldn't resign?... It is on video tape by Chavez's own admission...

What about the Venezuelans who had been fired from their jobs, and harassed by Chavez's thug just for voting against him?... i guess those are not really Venezuelans and they asked for it when they voted against Chavez....

I guess it does not matter if Chavez himself could right in front of all VEnezuelans say that the names, the addresses, and the fingerprints of all those who voted against him are being kept in lists and they will exist forever.... It does not matter if those lists are being used against those people who voted a referendum against Chavez...they are still free right?....

Chavez has set the stage for a true dictatorship in Venezuela, yet some people don't want to believe it even if it comes from the horse's mouth...

Yes, someone is obviously on something here, but it is not me. It is plain and simple, Chavez has made sure that he will stay in office for a long time, yet none of you who talk crap of the U.S. want to admit this.....



[edit on 8-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 01:43 PM
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There are also millions of Americans that want Bush out.

Let's back up and look at the basics again:

You CANNOT claim to be for democracy and peace if you are unable to accept the freedom of others and their legitimate democratic elections.

Period.

Please, you seriously need to get over your Xenophobia and accept that it is NOT the right of the West to impose their values on the rest of the world.



posted on Dec, 8 2006 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
There are also millions of Americans that want Bush out.


If the left could summons the percentage of people in the United States to demonstrate against the present administration, like what has happened in Venezuela, then you would have something to talk about.....but you don't... Even illegal immigrants in the U.S. which are a small minority can summon more people in demonstrations than the left..... the left in the U.S. does not have the percentage of people that the Venezuelan oposition has...not even close...

Anyways, back to the topic...


Originally posted by BitRaiser
Let's back up and look at the basics again:

You CANNOT claim to be for democracy and peace if you are unable to accept the freedom of others and their legitimate democratic elections.

Period.

Please, you seriously need to get over your Xenophobia and accept that it is NOT the right of the West to impose their values on the rest of the world.


Where in the world am i saying that we should impose anything on Venezuela?.... or that we should go and invade Venezuela?....

Point to me where I have said this....

What I am saying is that the regime of Chavez is not good as some people around here keep claiming... and Venezuela is not a free country....yes there are people in favour of Chavez, but even the figures coming from the Venezuelan regime do state that the poor in Venezuela are 45-47% of the population...which is not even half of the population of Venezuela yet Chavez and the Chavistas claim differently....and the claim is that Chavez is fighting "for the people"....how can that be so when more than half of the population is apparently "not the concern of the regime of Chavez and are being punished for expressing their opinion of not wanting Chavez as president"?....

It is probably half of the Venezuelan people, or more, who are asking CHavez to resign.........

I have also read the claim around here by some people, that "the middle class of Venezuela are only or mostly white".... Yes, there are white descendants in Venezuela, but if you take a look at the pictures of the last rally of Venezuelans in favour of Rosales, and against Chavez you will see this claim crumble to the truth....

Let's see again how free are the people of Venezuela.


Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
(Washington, July 8, 2005) — In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.

Yesterday, a court in Caracas ordered that María Corina Machado and Alejandro Plaz be tried on treason charges brought by a public prosecutor because their nongovernmental organization, Súmate, accepted foreign funds for a program that encouraged citizen participation in a referendum on President Hugo Chavez’s presidency in 2004. Two other Súmate leaders, Luis Enrique Palacios and Ricardo Estévez, will also be tried on charges of complicity with this alleged crime.

hrw.org...

We are not talking about people who are inciting violence, but people who want to express "their own opinions in Venezuela without having to fear any repraisals from the Venezuelan government and the Chavistas"....

Some people claim people in Venezuela are free, yet probably half percent of the population is not free at all, because the numbers of people who opose Chavez and have participated in demonstrations and rallies equals and at times has surpassed the amount of people who rally to back Chavez.


Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened
(Santiago, March 24, 2005) — Amendments to Venezuela’s Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public’s ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.

“By broadening laws that punish disrespect for government authorities, the Venezuelan government has flouted international human rights principles that protect free expression,” said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. “While countries across Latin America are moving to repeal such laws, Venezuela has enacted further restrictions on the press that will shield officials from public scrutiny.”

The amendments extend the scope of existing provisions that make it a criminal offense to insult or show disrespect for the president and other government authorities. Venezuela’s measures run counter to a continent-wide trend to repeal such “disrespect” (or “desacato”) laws. In recent years, Argentina, Costa Rica, Paraguay, and Peru have already repealed such laws, and other countries like Chile and Panama are currently considering legislation that would do so.

The human rights bodies of the United Nations and of the Organization of American States have repeatedly urged states to repeal such provisions.


The president, vice-president, government ministers, state governors and members of the Supreme Court are already protected from disrespect under the law. The new provisions extend this protection to legislators of the National Assembly, members of the National Electoral Council, the attorney general, the public prosecutor, the human rights ombudsman, the treasury inspector, and members of the high military command.

Anyone convicted of offending these authorities could go to prison for up to 20 months. Anyone who gravely offends the president, on the other hand, can incur a penalty of up to 40 months in prison.

hrw.org...

But some people around here still claim people in venezuela are free.... There is a difference between "inciting" violence, and "expressing" one's opinion peacefully and being put in prison for it.

[edit on 8-12-2006 by Muaddib]




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