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Hugo Chavez looks set to be re elected

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posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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Muaddib

When was the last time Chavez invaded another country under the umbrella of liberty and democracy that instead has turned toxic to the people supposedly to be liberated?

You have to stop and think what our democratic elected government has done in the world before looking at what others are doing in their nations specially after been tagged by the same administration that has no problem causing death and destruction of foreign nations, like Afghanistan and Iraq enemies of the US, because the only enemies are the ones in that has to do with economic issues of power grab of resources.

Just look and think and you will see, just see that our democratic elected government is not better. . . .Power corrupts and Chavez is not exempt of it, and either our own government and the corporate power that rules under.




posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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I would liek to visit Venezeula in 07 and see whats up. I wont be blacklisted as a terrorist for asking will I? Are our citizens still allowed to travel there? I think I have to take a flight from Colombia anyways.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 11:40 AM
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He did the same thing as Lula in Brasil - bribed the poor, thats all they need to do in countries where the poor vastly outnumber the rich. Just give em a monthly retainer and they are yours. This is the only reason either of them won their respective elections because the are both aholes.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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Chavez is merely doing what he can to protect the Venezuelan people and state from being taken advantage of by Israeli and American big business. There are countries with much worse human rights policies and far more radical political philosophies that the U.S. leaves alone...look at Dharfur, Haiti, etc...but they know that Venezuela has oil, and they also know that oil is getting scarce on this planet. Therefore, Chavez has been demonized in worldwide Neocon-controlled media sources simply because he won't allow big oil companies to steal from his country and its people. He has been selling heating oil to the U.S. at a 40% discount, simply because he CARES ABOUT POOR PEOPLE. There is a shortage, and heating oil is expensive for that reason. Chavez couuld sell the oil for full price if, as a few here have insinuated, he were a greedy man. The U.S.-Israeli business community just want to turn Venezuela into another Brazil. Chavez doesn't intend to let that happen. Therefore, he is now a target. Smoke on that awhile. _javascript:icon('
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posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I would liek to visit Venezeula in 07 and see whats up. I wont be blacklisted as a terrorist for asking will I? Are our citizens still allowed to travel there? I think I have to take a flight from Colombia anyways.


Well my father has traveled to venezuela almost every other year since the seventees.

He is Puertorrican and so far he has not problem traveling.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by travisgrant78
...................
There are countries with much worse human rights policies and far more radical political philosophies that the U.S. leaves alone...look at Dharfur, Haiti, etc...................


Which was the country that sent troops to Haiti to stop the bloodshed happening over there not too long ago?... BTW, the U.S. has tried to do something about places like Dhafur, but countries like "China" have vetoed the U.S.... But I guess people forget these things when it suits them...

Anyways, that is for "another thread", this one is about Venezuela and the belief of some people that Chavez is good when he has as a mentor and sees as a father castro who is one of the last living dictators in our time.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Muaddib

When was the last time Chavez invaded another country under the umbrella of liberty and democracy that instead has turned toxic to the people supposedly to be liberated?
..............


Chavez has funded and incites violent revolutions around the world, including the destruction of the U.S., but i guess he is a good man as long as it is against the U.S. huh?.......



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Chavez has funded and incites violent revolutions around the world, including the destruction of the U.S., but i guess he is a good man as long as it is against the U.S. huh?.......


No, Muaddib, what he wants is for other countries to stand up and stop US or at least the present administration for using the war on terror to keep attacking other nations that it disagrees with the US.

He is not a perfect man, muaddib, and neither is our president or the leaders of other countries, at least he is not asking for the decimation of Israel


But no to worry the American people on November elections already put a stop to Bush regime.

At least the people has spoken and Chavez has made a point.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Ahh, Muaddib. Spouting the same old rhetoric, I see!

I like your comment about a poll of 800 people (the one which went against your line of thinking, but you still posted) is not representative. In that, what poll is? You will rarely find any poll conducted that surveys more than a few thousand at most, even in the US.

Most polls will do around 1000, give or take. The way they are done is that they ask the questions to a representative cross-section of society.

No poll is ever a true depiction of the masses, unless your survey everyone

Also, Chavez's opponent has not called the election fraudulent and if he hasn't, I don't think you have a leg to stand on, to be honest.

I doubt this will be the last we hear from you anyway, it never is...



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I would liek to visit Venezeula in 07 and see whats up. I wont be blacklisted as a terrorist for asking will I? Are our citizens still allowed to travel there? I think I have to take a flight from Colombia anyways.


A friend of mine who works for the same company I work for as an electronics technitian was sent to Venezuela to help them over there, and even though our company is international, he was put in jail with some other employees because they were citizens of the U.S. and were accused of being spies working for the U.S.

A representative of our company had to pay a bribe to the officials in Venezuela to get the employees out. When the employee friend of mine asked how much they had to pay for them, the lawyer said he was not allowed to say how much they had to pay, but said it was more than breakfast.

Many of Chavez's speeches claim that something must be done to help the environment, yet since he has been in power less is being done for the environment in Venezuela.

Some people claim that the Venezuelan president is environmentally friendly...well since he has been in power there are no real safety and environmental standards when it comes to oil rigs in Venezuela. They are allowed to dump chemicals in the rigs without any safety or environmental concerns...yet Chavez is good for the people and the environment?....

Chavez is not as good as some claim. The only thing he has done is given checks to enough poor people to gain their vote, and there is a probability, i am not saying for certain but i think it is very possible that elections are rigged over there.

They are losing a lot of good people in Venezuela, imagine a country were no educated people exist...The Venezuelan dotors have been doing strikes against the Cuban doctors because the Cuban doctors are pretty much slaves which are paid a minimum salary and they have to do what their government tells them.

All the problems which Chavez claimed he was going to solve have not been solve but they have gotten worse.

For example, the following is an article from 1998 on Venezuelan doctors going on strike because their salaries, and all public spendind were cut to "contain a fiscal deficit".


Doctors' unions in Venezuela say up to twenty-four thousand doctors in public hospitals across the country will stop work indefinitely from tomorrow for all but emergency cases.

A spokesman said they were protesting at the sacking of more than one-hundred-and-forty doctors from one of the main hospitals in Caracas.

The staff there had been on strike, along with several thousand colleagues at other hospitals in the capital.

The doctors, who earn on average three-hundred dollars a month, want a three-fold increase.

The government, which has cut public spending to try to contain a widening fiscal deficit, says it cannot afford to pay more.

news.bbc.co.uk...

In 2004 or 2005 Venezuelan doctors went on strike again, because Cuban doctors are getting paid 200 dollars a month, which in Venezuela is not that much and most people who get paid that much need at least a second job in Venezuela. Venezuelan doctors used to get paid a lot more.

The following are a few of the things that have happened in Venezuela.


(July 16, 2004) Democracy Activists in Venezuela Threatened

The World Movement for Democracy expresses great concern regarding the political persecution to which the Venezuelan Government is subjecting the NGO, Súmate, a non-partisan organization that advocates for and defends Venezuelan citizens' political rights. Súmate has promoted and monitored the petition signing process guaranteed under Article 72 of the Venezuelan constitution. The process, supported and endorsed by the government and the international community, permits citizens to request a recall referendum half-way through an elected official's term if citizens can collect 20 percent of the signatures of registered voters.

Specifically, six members of Sumate have been threatened with indictment for "high treason and conspiracy" by the Venezuelan Government for having received funds from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), Secretariat of the World Movement for Democracy, to finance an educational program to train Súmate volunteers in citizens' political rights. In fact, however, it is not a crime in Venezuela to receive funds from a foreign organization or to undertake educational programs similar to those carried out by Súmate.

www.wmd.org...



Chavez promises more radical turn toward socialism
04/12/2006 - 07:31:19

Emboldened by a resounding re-election, President Hugo Chavez has all the political capital he needs to drive Venezuela more firmly toward socialism while posing an increasingly defiant challenge to US influence.

Opposition contender Manuel Rosales accepted defeat last night, but promised to continue countering a leader whom he accuses of becoming increasingly authoritarian.

Touting his victory in a speech to thousands, Chavez said Venezuelans should expect an “expansion of the revolution” aimed at redistributing the country’s oil wealth among the poor.

breakingnews.iol.ie...

Things are going to get worse in Venezuela.

The main reason why I think that the elections are fraudulent is because the numbers don't add up.

The percentage of population in Venezuela who are poor was 45% as per 2001. Even though it is high, that's not even half of the population.


Poor people are the first to suffer from rising unemployment, low wages and inflation. Their nutritional standards and education levels are sinking and their productivity is declining. Almost half (45 per cent) of Venezuelans are poor. According to the 2001 census, the country has as many as 11 million poor people and 5 million extremely poor people.

www.ruralpovertyportal.org...

During Chavez's reign the poverty has more than double from 1990 to 2000


Although the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela is one of the most highly urbanized countries in Latin America , poverty has a prevalently rural dimension. About 12 per cent of Venezuelans live in rural areas, where more than 70 per cent of the population is poor, compared to about 40 per cent in urban areas. About 70 per cent of all rural poor people live in the Centro Occidental, Nororiental and Andes regions. Rural poverty exists even in slums located near urban areas. Almost 5 per cent of the rural poor can be found near Caracas, the capital city.

Between 1990 and 2000 the number of poor rural households more than doubled, and poverty spread to an even greater number of villages. Most rural people live in homes made of adobe, many with earthen floors. Two thirds of their dwellings are without running water or electricity. For the extremely poor, including the majority of the country's indigenous people and ethnic minorities, it is common for an average of six family members to live in one room. Their access to schooling, health care and markets is severely limited or non-existent. Yet almost half of the country's poorest people are children under the age of 14.

www.ruralpovertyportal.org...

The labor force by occupation in Venezeula is as follows.

agriculture: 13%
industry: 23%
services: 64% (1997 est.)

The majority of the work force in Venezuela work in industry and service, and most of those people are not "poor". Yet Chavez gets more votes from "supposedly the poor people of Venezuela"?....

It does not add up one bit.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by Muaddib
The labor force by occupation in Venezeula is as follows.

agriculture: 13%
industry: 23%
services: 64% (1997 est.)

The majority of the work force in Venezuela work in industry and service, and most of those people are not "poor". Yet Chavez gets more votes from "supposedly the poor people of Venezuela"?....

It does not add up one bit.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Muaddib]


Well, it doesn't matter if you think the numbers don't add up. The Venezuelans seem to think they do and that includes the Opposition candidate.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:41 PM
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Let's check a few more facts about what is happening in Venezuela.

The following informaiton is from 2003.


Status change explanation: Venezuela's rating deteriorated from Partly Free to Not Free, as the ability of independent journalists and media outlets to operate freely and impartially was seriously impeded by a political and economic crisis that enveloped the entire country.

Press freedom has seriously deteriorated over the past year as a result of a climate of intimidation and hostility towards independent journalists and media outlets. Although the constitution provides for press freedom, a special clause which states that all persons have the right to "true" information has been used by the government of President Hugo Chavez to censor and intimidate the press. Libel and defamation are criminal offenses, and these laws were increasingly used to harass the media throughout the year. A 1994 law requires that media professionals hold a university degree in journalism and also be members of the National College of Journalists. The government has exerted undue pressure on the media, repeatedly singling out media owners, editors, and reporters by name and calling them "liars, enemies of the revolution and of the people." During the year, dozens of journalists were the victims of threats, intimidation, and violent assaults, most likely as a result of the president's relentless criticism of the media. One journalist was killed after he was shot by a military sniper while covering political demonstrations that led to the temporary ousting of Chavez in February. On the other hand, the media in Venezuela have shown a significant anti-Chavez slant that is characterized by lowered levels of impartiality and fairness. Media owners allege that this situation exists because Chavez incites his supporters to attack journalists. In addition, the state allocates broadcasting licenses in a biased manner and shows favoritism with government advertising revenues.

freedomhouse.org...


Status of Venezuela? NOT FREE

In 2005 the status of Venezuela is still NOT FREE

freedomhouse.org...



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

Well, it doesn't matter if you think the numbers don't add up. The Venezuelans seem to think they do and that includes the Opposition candidate.


Oh, so i guess there are no protests by Venezuelans as to what is happening over there huh?...it is just "my" opinion?...



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by stumason

Well, it doesn't matter if you think the numbers don't add up. The Venezuelans seem to think they do and that includes the Opposition candidate.


Oh, so i guess there are no protests by Venezuelans as to what is happening over there huh?...it is just "my" opinion?...


There's none being reported on the news. even the US amabassador has congratulated venezuela on a free and peaceful election:


US Ambassador William Brownfield congratulated Venezuelans on a peaceful ballot, and voiced Washington's willingness to seek a less fractious relationship with Mr Chavez.

"The president was re-elected by the decision of the Venezuelan people," Mr Brownfield said in a radio interview on Tuesday.

"We recognise that and we're ready, willing and eager to explore and see if we can make progress on bilateral issues."

[url=Source]



[edit on 5/12/06 by stumason]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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Good for Chavez, good for Venezuela.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

There's none being reported on the news. even the US amabassador has congratulated venezuela on a free and peaceful election:
...............


That's just because the U.S. is not going to invade Venezuela, despite some people including Chavez claiming the U.S. is going to invade them.....but the fact remains, there are millions of Venezuelans who don't want Chavez and their voices are being silenced.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 06:53 PM
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No demonstrations being reported agains Chavez huh?....

The following are a couple of videos from a demonstration on November 25th 2006 of people protesting against Chavez in Venezuela, it is a private video, but it tells a different story from what you claim.

daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com...

The main highway was full of people and even in the background accross from the river you can see it is full of people.

BTW, Caracas is a city of 5 million people.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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This is a picture of that non-existant demonstration against Chavez.



You can zoom in the picture and that picture does not contain everyone who was there, in the videos I gave above you can see a lot more people.

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 07:05 PM
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Oooops, here are more pictures of the non-existant demonstration against Chavez...

picasaweb.google.com...

[edit on 5-12-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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Nice attempt at spin there Muaddib, but you'll find I am more intelligent than you give me credit for.

Not only were those photo's all of the same rally, but that took place on the 29th November and was a political rally held by the Opposition candidate.

There are NOT pictures of demonstrations AFTER the election.


Try again....



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