Is the Typhoon the best current WVR fighter?

The Eurofighter Typhoon benefits from a number of advances in technology and engineering. The aircraft makes extensive use of composites in the airframe with only 15% of the surface comprising metal. The newly developed EJ200 powerplants combined with the aircraft's aerodynamics allow it to cruise supersonically without the use of reheat for extended periods of time even with a normal weapons load. The advanced flight control system and pitch unstable design impart great manoeuvrability at high and low speeds. These, combined with; cutting edge automated defences, advanced active and passive sensors, leading cockpit ergonomics and a reduced RCS instil Eurofighter with more than an even chance of success against most competing aircraft.

Is the F-22 more capable then the Typhoon in WVR?

I found this Post which looks really relevant at this adres :
www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk...

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[edit on 3/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]

The USAF has two operational squadrons of F-22's so your answer will be no, it's the F-22...
At first the will be deployed to Eglin, Elmendorf, Mountain Home and Tyndal.

So basically if those squadrons went int combat the F-22's will go

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.af.mil...

The forum you mentoined relates the Typhoon against 4th gen planes, the Raptor is the only 5th gen fighter plane, until the F-35 rolls out...

BTW here are the specs for the F-119 P&W engine...
Type: Twin-Spool, Augmented Turbofan
Thrust: 35,000 Pound Thrust Class
Engine control: Full-Authority Digital Electronic Control
Compression system: Twin Spool/Counter Rotating/Axial Flow/Low Aspect Ratio
Combustor: Annular
Turbine: Axial Flow/Counter-Rotating
Nozzle: Two Dimensional Vectoring Convergent/Divergent

www.pratt-whitney.com...

[edit on 3-12-2006 by carcharodon]

If the air defence network is working to plan and if the F-22 jockey is doing his job properly then WVR would never come into it. However plans frequently get messed up in combat and pilots get it wrong far more than they like to admit.

So having got our two opponents into the same bit of sky I believe the Typhoon now has a small edge over F-22. The Raptor has TVC to draw on, but it is a huge and heavy airframe, the lightness of the Typhoon is clearly a great leveller here, the Typhoon has PIRATE, while a similar system was cut from the F-22 for budgetary reasons (though it may be reinstated at a future date). Both aircraft have high off boresight IR missiles to draw on and each pilot has HMS at his disposal. In a one v one knife fight, providing pilots of equal ability and training, it would be a very close run thing but I think the Typhoon just about comes out on top as the slaved PIRATE system would have detected, prioritised and tracked its target allowing an ASRAAM launch before the F-22 jock can get lock on with his AIM-9X.

The problem is of course, as I said before, actually getting close enough for this to happen, and on that score I'd definitely say the F-22 would be victorious in the vast majority of cases.

Lets hope we get to see this PIRATE gizmo at Cope India or something next year..

Originally posted by waynos
If the air defence network is working to plan and if the F-22 jockey is doing his job properly then WVR would never come into it. However plans frequently get messed up in combat and pilots get it wrong far more than they like to admit.

And some parties on ATS, too.

Anyway, IMHO, the Typhoon is a great aircraft but isn't quite the best for WVR. The new Sukhoi jets are amazing with maneuvers (Especially the ones that aren't intended to be mass-produced). One Russian jet I'd like to bring up, though, is the MiG-29 OVT. This thing pulls maneuvers that would make even a Typhoon wince. I will say, however, that if the Typhoon got some TVC (particularly a 360-degree variant) it would be a feared WVR force. It would be to WVR what the F-22 is to BVR.

But I still like Russian jets.

Originally posted by Darkpr0
One Russian jet I'd like to bring up, though, is the MiG-29 OVT. This thing pulls maneuvers that would make even a Typhoon wince.

*Cough* No weapons load. *Cough* No full internal fuel.
Lets see these super duper maneuverable jets perform these maneuvers with a combat load, then we'll talk.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
*Cough* No weapons load. *Cough* No full internal fuel.
Lets see these super duper maneuverable jets perform these maneuvers with a combat load, then we'll talk.

Uhh, how do you know it hasn't taken off on a full load of fuel?


Indeed... I dare say one of the criticisms that has (needlessly) been thrown around about the MiG-29 is you need a full tank of fuel to take off, do a few stunts and land...


To compare like with like - if the EF can demonstrate the same level of manouvering without a loadout then we can say its comparable (or maybe better)... but, up until it does... we can't.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Uhh, how do you know it hasn't taken off on a full load of fuel?

Uhh, and how do you know it has indeed taken off with a full fuel load when it performs those airshow maneuvers?

Originally posted by kilcoo316
Uhh, how do you know it hasn't taken off on a full load of fuel?

There are several reasons why I believe that these jets do not have full fuel tanks, the first of which being that this is indeed an air show and less fuel equals more maneuverability, a key selling point for the Russians. Anyway, there is also the fact that several US pilots and aviation experts have said basically the same thing. But regardless of what you make of that, the fact that it carries no weapons, no fuel tanks, no pods is irrefutable. I'd like to see how it would perform with the weight and drag external weapons bring.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Originally posted by WestPoint23
*Cough* No weapons load. *Cough* No full internal fuel.
Lets see these super duper maneuverable jets perform these maneuvers with a combat load, then we'll talk.

Uhh, how do you know it hasn't taken off on a full load of fuel?


Indeed... I dare say one of the criticisms that has (needlessly) been thrown around about the MiG-29 is you need a full tank of fuel to take off, do a few stunts and land...

....

The MiG-29 is a known fuel waster. This is coming from the mouths of the former german pilots. While being superior to most western airplanes in WVR fighting during trials, the timeframes to engage were quite short until the MiGs had to break off again. In the usual versions, it also has no provisions for external fuel tanks - its a dedicated frontline fighter.

Some Luftwaffe MiGs were retro-fitted with adapters for droptanks, but they lowered the max g-Stress from 9 to 3-4g.

----

Anyway, a combination of two things would put any other fighter at a disadvantage (not saying inferior) against a german Typhoon:

First, the voice control. Troop reports indicate that it decreases work load and increases ease of use considerably, particularly in a WVR situation where fractions of seconds may count.

Second, and that so far is a german exclusive, is the new LIBELLE G-suit (though several nations apparently are frantically trying to get these suits). It works faster, more effective and longer-lasting than any compressed air pants that are in use now. The difference is that pilots can still breathe, think and speak quite normally and are suffering less physical strain. somehow the vids on the manufacturers page (www.autofluglibelle.de...) don´t work for me now, but when I wathced them the difference seemed stellar.

Even a trained pilot may quickly lose combat effectiveness or even experience g-LOC while throwing around his super-maneuverable TVC airplane. The more enduring pilot in the Typhoon however will have a considerable personal performance advantage in many possible scenarios.

well the TVC capability, high instability etc etc. certainly weren't designed for airshows and the likes.
They weren't designed to impress big-eyed over enthusiastic arm chair experts as well.
They are design specifications built to meet the needs as stated by fighter pilots and air combat tacticians..
Whether they work or not is just as good as saying that the F-22's stealth is no good, just for show etc etc..
Since we're talking WVR; the reasons behind this are all to evident.
The only way the 'real' capabiliites of the Ruskie TVC are going to be gauged are in live combat or if a single Air Force has both western a/c and Ruskie TVC.
Probable AFs are India, Malaysia, Venezuela? etc..
Only these guys will truely be able to unleash the full capabilities of the resp a/c in internal red-blue fixtures. All other inter AF exercises are not going to have that.