Originally posted by senrakThe Northern Masonic Jurisdiction has Sixty-six Active Members, and (I presume) several thousand Honorary Members also. It would not surprise me to learn that there are ten thousand Thirty-third Degree members in the United States.

Brother John,

As a member of the Northern Jurisdiction I can confirm this. Our quota has been one 33rd per every 50 new members. In Pennsylvania, we have five 'active' members of the supreme council.

Fiat Lvx.

-SD

I read that in California it is less than 1.25% of the total number of SR Masons that are proposed each year for the honorary 33rd degree.

It very true that there is only a small amount (around 10% worldwide) are elected to the honorable degree on Supreme Rite 33rd degree. 99% of freemasons throughout the world will never see 33rd and more than likely .05% American grandpa's have not/will not ever see this. Traditionally it takes at least one year between each degree thus 33 years min. but American know how to ruin everything.

-S&C

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
It very true that there is only a small amount (around 10% worldwide) are elected to the honorable degree on Supreme Rite 33rd degree. 99% of freemasons throughout the world will never see 33rd and more than likely .05% American grandpa's have not/will not ever see this.

Maybe, but only if you include grandpas who are not Masons. If you're only counting grandpas who are Masons, the number is of course much higher.

Traditionally it takes at least one year between each degree thus 33 years min. but American know how to ruin everything.

I would certainly disagree. The Scottish Rite was founded in the United States; the first Supreme Council was created in Charleston, South Carolina in 1801. There is absolutely nothing in the traditions of the Rite that require a wait of 33 years. Indeed, Albert Pike himself went from the 4° to the 32° in about 15 minutes, when Bro. Albert Mackey communicated the degrees to him at his home in Charleston. Pike received the 33° just a couple of years later due to his work in revising the degrees.

If there is any Supreme Council in the world that requires one to wait a year between degrees, I suppose it's their right to do so, but it is certainly not tradition; especially if we consider the fact that, traditionally, most of the degrees are not even conferred at all. Many have existed on paper only, and were given to new members to study.

Fiat Lvx.



[edit on 5-9-2004 by Masonic Light]

yes when you refer to American S.R. it is done in one year but in other parts of the world i.e. Europe you must provide a lecture and proof of thorough knowledge of each degree thus the one year wait. So before you jump the gun remember that Masonry is worldwide and not just in AMERICA.

Fraternally,

-S&C

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
yes when you refer to American S.R. it is done in one year but in other parts of the world i.e. Europe you must provide a lecture and proof of thorough knowledge of each degree thus the one year wait. So before you jump the gun remember that Masonry is worldwide and not just in AMERICA.

Fraternally,

-S&C

What you write about the universality of masonry is certainly true, my brother, but as was also just noted, the AASR was CREATED in the United States in 1801, thus any changes to the process of reception and advancement through the degrees is INNOVATIVE and not tradition.

Right?

yes you are correct however I am a Traditional Lodge (blue lodge)member and I regulate myself under the European traditions, sorry for any confusion.

Fraternally,

-S&C

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
yes when you refer to American S.R. it is done in one year but in other parts of the world i.e. Europe you must provide a lecture and proof of thorough knowledge of each degree thus the one year wait. So before you jump the gun remember that Masonry is worldwide and not just in AMERICA.

That is indeed correct. My point was simply that the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite is American in origin. Some Supreme Councils abroad require waiting periods between degrees, but this practice is an innovation rather than a traditional model based upon the Rite's history.

However, I'm not arguing in favor of "fast Masonry", and it may indeed be better for a Brother to wait between degrees, giving him opportunity for study and reflection. But this practice forms no part of the history of the Mother Council, at least not between every single degree.

Fiat Lvx.

1.) As time moves forward, so does Masonry. There are new mysteries, new secrets, new ideas and expressions that only Brothers know. Those too, might become known, but Masons aren't bothered by that, and when I'm initiated, I won't either. I of couse prefer that Masonic rituals remain behind closed doors where they justly belong, but information will get out one way or the other.

2.) Regardless of what the public knows and discusses freely, Masons swear an oath not to reveal certain things, and that oath is a promise. Masons keep their promises, and respect the sanctity of their rituals, regardless of what non-Masons think or do. Simply because the world might know about such and such rite, Masonic honour does not change.

3.) As for the wars, famine, violence of history, look to Christianity before Masonry. Where Masonry might be a pool of misconduct, Christianity is a veritable ocean of nasty behaviour in the name of the Christian god. Where at best, you can only allege Masonry's involvement in whatever unfortunate calamity, you can find clear proofs of Christian involvement, and quite often, direct responsibility. Don't simply ridicule Christianity, however, you should be critical of Masonry as well, just take care not to imply that Masonry has a monopoly on distasteful behaviour.

It is not Christianity that is the problem, it is the people practcing it through history. Most of the crimes of Christianity are decidedly un-Masonic. Christiantiy is not the only example of well-meaning precepts perverted by faulty institutions. The examples are legion. Again, masonry has no monopoly on bad behaviour, and in fact, the crimes that can be linked conclusively and directly to Masonry are infinitesimal. The fact that it is a "secret society" so people a priori obviously won't really know either way is also flawed thinking.

I hope you have a better source than odeion.org, by the way. Peter Wakefield Sault, for example - one of the contributors to that site, whoever he is, is certainly not a historian or a bona fide scholar. He's a tech employee, and a hobbyist when it comes to "ancient history."

I don't recognize Odeion.org as a creditable source, anyway, even though it doesn't apply to this debate.

[edit on 27-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by LTD602
I don't recognize Odeion.org as a creditable source.

Well of course you wouldn't, would you? It totally undermines your belief system; everything you've been indoctrinated with and your childish fantasy of belonging to a secret society.

Anyone can create a webpage about anything. Looks like the creators of Odeion.org have taken armchair hobbyist history to a new level. Pseudo-academia. A repository for pet theories reprocessed from History Channel(TM) documentaries and CableTV specials that fill boring Sunday afternoons.

Secret Society or not, childish fantasy or not, Masonry is comprised of around 6 million members worldwide. They come from all walks of life - young, old, rich, poor, lawyers, janitors, doctors, firemen, political officials, managers, CEOs, teachers, students, judges, royalty, mechanics etc. George Washington was a Mason. A number of the signatories of the American Constitution and Declaration were also Masons. I suppose they too, were "childish" and that the very documents that GRANT, CODIFY, AND PROTECT your right to express your opinions and theories, regardless of their veracity, are also "fantasies."

Many great figures of history, and today as well, were and are Masons. Presidents and Prime Ministers, too.

Whether Masonry has secrets or not is for the initiate to discover. Masonry does lay claim to "mysteries", however. It's in black and white on the application.

Masonry is very much a reality, and is obviously meaningful to it's members. Many of its members are also very talented, bright people.


By the way, nice avatar, Theron!



[edit on 27-9-2004 by LTD602]

My dad also was a mason, 32snd degree. Maybe things have changed since his time (he's 76) He decided he was sick of waisting money

sorry missed my whole point of even saying anything he also had said that 32snd degree was the highest rank or whatever whatnot. Sorry
<---------------loses train of thought easily

Originally posted by Zzub
On friday nights, we would sometimes see what appeared to be 'ladies of negotiable affection' arriving at and leaving.

Those 'ladies' were most likely Job's daughters ore Rainbow Girls. Neither of which would be prostitutes. You should have joined the Order of Demoley an then you could have gotten some.

Originally posted by I_AM_that_I_AM

Originally posted by Zzub
On friday nights, we would sometimes see what appeared to be 'ladies of negotiable affection' arriving at and leaving.

Those 'ladies' were most likely Job's daughters ore Rainbow Girls. Neither of which would be prostitutes. You should have joined the Order of Demoley an then you could have gotten some.

THIS is how you defame masonry? By defaming your own honor or showing you have none? To defame these honest girls and more, the Demolay boys with such patter is terrible... more, its a demonstration of a lack of honor and integrity on your part by your insinutations...

Is that how you want people talking about your sister, mother or daughter?

Masonry at least teaches us to respect women, and ourselves.