Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by orangetom1999 Eventually ...though I have no ambition to own one, I will have to shoot one and learn how to take one down. I am thinking they take down very similar to a SKS....is this correct??

Orangetom

Orangetom

They are broadly similar. The SKS has the swivelling catch at the side of the receiver cover for take-down where the AK has a push button (looks like a hammer at the back of the receiver cover) which is actually an extension of the spring loaded op rod. The bolt is tiny compared to an SKS and slots into a circular sleeve on the bolt carrier as opposed to the huge angled locking lug which mate the 2 together on the SKS bolt and bolt carrier. The front gas tube comes off the exact same way on both rifles. The thing that really surprised me about disassembling the AK was the was the gas piston and bolt carrier all come out as one long piece - it looks and feels as if it should come apart, but it doesn't.

First off to REtseh,
Thank you for your description of how a AK type rifle takes down. I have seen people shooting them at the gun club to which I belong but never wanted to mess with them and certainly have not seen one taken apart. In retrospect they must be somewhat similar in that they would have to be Soldier proof to a great extent.

As I learned to disassemble my SKS rifles I began to marvel at the simplicity of the design though compared to the AR 15 or the M1 Garand I also own..they are crude by comparison. But you know Retseh I suppose to its credit ..some of this crudity aids in the functioning of the rifle under extream conditions. It is obvious with my machinery background that the tolerances are not what is customary on American firearms or a finely made European bolt actions or a FN/LAR, or HK design.

Nevertheless there is a certain rationale, logic and reason to the KISS Principle in the SKS/AK designs. Also King Tigers rationale is difficult against which to argue. I will have to learn to take one down and reassemble though I prefer my SKS rifles.

I will be taking both my SKS Rifles and my 1903 Springfield to the range tomorrow for some shooting practice. Looking foreward to it. All my equipment is prestaged in my garage ready to go. Purchased about 100 rounds today.

I am considerig a small short range scope for one of my SKS rifles as this is not really a long range shooter...as is my 1903 Springfield.


Gentlemen..let us not allow this thread to degenerate into a slugfest of which I am also guilty. My apologies for this.

While I am a Bloody Yank and proud of it. I do not often care for these posts when they degenerate so to the lowest common denominator so to speak.

I too..believe in freedom of speech though I am often given to replying in kind...and not letting certain concepts pass up a opportunity to rebutt.

It is just that I think some of us can do better than allowing a thread to so degenerate. Passion in debate is good..but not when it so degenerates.

I am not intending to insult anyone here but just urging that the bar on our conduct and respect levels be raised a bit..even in disagreement.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom

Thanks for the comments Orangetom, you are of course quite correct.

Probably best to let this thread fade gently into the sunset, I'm sure the topic of the AK will come up again, hopefully with more in the way of constructive input.

Originally posted by ParaNana
But surely if you guys didn't have access to these weapons, there would be far fewer gun related incidents or deaths in the States? Ok, i know the majority of these are due to ignorant people either mis-using them or leaving them lying around for kids to pick up etc, but if there was a gun ban, surely there would a better way to "defend your liberty" Surely it would be in everybodys best interests to take these weapons off the public market. Im not saying you dont have a right to protect yourselves, but dont other people have the right to be protected "from" these? I may seem very biased or ignorant with regard to the whole gun issue, but thats probably because i have never had access to such weapons or the need for one to protect myself. I feel confident in saying that if ever a time came when i did need to protect myself or my loved ones, i could fashion a lethal weapon/device from materials in my garage, but would never have it prepared..."just in case"

If not for guns people would kill eachother with knives.
If not for knives people would kill eachother with rocks.
If not for rocks people would kill eachother with their hands.
If not for hands we would have telekineses and kill eachother with dirty looks.

See a pattern. The only thing which changes are the statistics.
At least with a gun a 100 pound twerp can defend himself from the evil 250 pound bully. A woman can defend herself against a man if she has a gun, whereas without one in most cases she can't.

I wonder how many people have defended themselves from a criminal with a gun? See how it weighs out good vs bad.

Is it fair to say that the 5.45 cartridge is more accurate that the 7.62 x 39?
What I've heard is that 5.45 is faster and a bit more accurate. For lethality, 5.45mm, is long and tumbles quickly after hitting flesh. The 7.62 x 39 FMJ simply puts a hole in you with a higher grain. It would probably pass through you before tumbling.

The 5.56mm requires high velocity in order to fragment and hydroshock the victim. The fragmentation hurts a soldiers ability to fire through obstacles and still hit the enemy. There is also a small problem for the M4 carbines which sacrafice velocity. It reduces the extra lethal effects of the 5.56 round. For these reasons they are considering the 6.8mm SPC round.

I know these are generalities, but are they reasonabley fair assesments?


[edit on 2-1-2007 by DoBravery]

I had been having some problems with my SKS rifles which I had attributed to not thoroughly cleaning the preservative off the bolt return/recoil spring. I recleaned after a more thorough dissassembly and dousing in kerosene.

While shooting on the line yestereday I noticed the guy next to me was shooting a variation of the AK 47. We did not strike up a conversation but I observed him closely. He was part of a group of five guys shooting various semi auto rifles. Some were shooting AR 15 variants others the Springfield Armory SOCOM Rifle. Another shooting a folding stock variant of the M1 Carbine.

When the range was cold we proceeded down range to reset our targets. I took this opportunity on the 100 yard range to see how this AK 47 was shooting as well as the shooter. From where my target was being reset I noticed a vertical string but to the right of the center of his target about 8 inches to the right. I was wondering if this was a new AK 47 variant to this shooter or if he had experience with it. I did not notice any malfunctions or attempts to clear stovepipes or such.
I should have asked him if he would do me the honor of demonstrating the disassembly of this weapon. I am going to do just that the next time I see an AK 47 variant on the range.

My SKS shot fine..no problems. I do however need a colder day of shooting to be sure. THe weather here on the east coast has been unseasonably warm. Very unusual. I need a day at the range below freezing to be sure about the functoning of my SKS.

Thanks,
Orangetom