Decided it was time to buy an AK

Originally posted by sigung86
To all ... Even McPhisto (God Love 'im)... This has been one of the most enjoyable threads I've participated in here on ATS in many a moon. Thanks to all. I kind of feel like I've made new friends.

Cavscout... Yeah... Your right on all counts. I, hearken back to the ancient of days, the old Gen 1 M16. It couldn't wait to misfire, foul up or otherwise piss off it's carrier. The AK just made more sense way back then. Like I said, if I had it to do all over again, and could make a choice, I would have opted for the M14. Bigger is better.... I knew a flight surgeon in 'Nam, who carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk.

My father trained with an M14 at paris island in 1967, he was able to hit 10 out of 10 at 500 yards. I really would love to have an M14 but they are too expensive for my budget, maybe someday i will get one. He also hated the M16 like many veterans of that time but they were lighter than the M14 and from what i am told most of the firefights happened within 30 yards of the enemy so accuracy past that really wasn't a big deal. Again this is all second hand knowledge from my Father but the source is good.

Looks like about 5 pages of posts have disappeared from this thread... ????

I know... I know... Just didn't know how to make this a two or more line posts.

Originally posted by sigung86
Looks like about 5 pages of posts have disappeared from this thread... ????

I know... I know... Just didn't know how to make this a two or more line posts.

I think it's because the UK just banned the word "gun"

PS - Those Bulgarian waffle magazines really are very good, and just 20 bucks a piece new.

The new AK (yes I started all this) shoots like a dream, haven't measured MoA yet because frankly I'm not that good a rifle shot (I'd be measuring my MoA not the gun's).

I set up some gongs in an old river bed and proceeded to work them left to right and then back again, this is quite some weapon under 100 yards. No stoppages, failures, or brass (actually steel as I was using Wolf) in the face incidents. Steel ammo is hard on extractors and the lacquer sealant on Wolf can gum up guns, but not the AK, as with most SovBlok weapons the 2 were made for each other. I do hope that my next batch will be copper jacketed though, easier on the barrel.

Some serious accuracy work will follow at the range during Christmas week, possibly at Scottsdale Gun Club's excellent indoor rifle range.

I don't envisage this as a home defense weapon, I have a new Springfield XD45 for that job - 7.62x39 is an open field cartridge it doesn't play well with drywall and neighbors. Now if I lived in South LA that would be a different story

I doubt I would use this gun in competition, it just doesn't have the accuracy to go up against an AR in anything but an IDPA style equivalent for rifles (and I don't think such a thing even exists) but it is an interesting piece nonetheless.

Originally posted by Retseh


I think it's because the UK just banned the word "gun"

Sources? References? Or is this just something else you've just made up??

Originally posted by Retseh


I think it's because the UK just banned the word "gun"

This is funny...well not really. I know that here in American they like to think of themselves as very sophisticated in the media while playing word games with the public mind. You have to be very careful to notice. You must have a more than four letter word vocabulary to notice this trend. Such " word games" are also a favorite of the body politic when it suits them. To me the media is just a extension of the body politic which does their shilling for this body politic when needed. Helps to keep you on the treadmill on which they need you to run. Word games are just a part of this shilling process.

Thought police...lol lol...when someone controls your vocabulary they can control the way you think. If they control the way you think they can control the way you act or conduct yourself.

Remember too...the body politic pays for or finances public education. THe word games go one in pubic school too.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orangetom - you surprise me, you're clearly one of the more intelligent posters on here and yet you accept this twaddle on the say-so of someone who has so far not allowed actual facts to get in the way of his fatuous spoutings.

Where and how has the 'UK banned the word gun'????????????

As I've pointed out (twice) to this dolt there are over 1 million registered firearms in the UK in private hands - our restrictions on possession / storage are not that different to those in effect in some of your states.

Please provide references / sources before you use one of Retseh's made-up BS 'facts' to make a 'point'.

[edit on 10/12/2006 by Strangerous]

Originally posted by Strangerous
Orangetom - you surprise me, you're clearly one of the more intelligent posters on here and yet you accept this twaddle on the say-so of someone who has so far not allowed actual facts to get in the way of his fatuous spoutings.

Where and how has the 'UK banned the word gun'????????????

As I've pointed out (twice) to this dolt there are over 1 million registered firearms in the UK in private hands - our restrictions on possession / storage are not that different to those in effect in some of your states.

Please provide references / sources before you use one of Retseh's made-up BS 'facts' to make a 'point'.

[edit on 10/12/2006 by Strangerous]

I feel like i live in bizzaro World, I am 100 percent sure that Retseh was making a joke when he said that the UK banned the word gun. Making fun of the UK for it's generally strict regulations. I don't see how anyone would think he was passing that off as fact? Maybe I just missed something here because the last couple posts just seem really strange to me.

Originally posted by JackJuice

Originally posted by dave_54
Just out of curiosity -- why an AK? It really is a poor choice for a personal defense weapon, and is an outdated design for assault rifles.

If you just want one to complete your collection, fine, but the AK is not a very practical weapon for personal use.

The price of an AK is cheap and the rifle is generally pretty rugged. Between those two things you can get yourself into the assult weapons world without breaking the bank.

There is some risk with that. As you know the AK was the primary export weapon from the USSR. Basically, they would sell a boatload to anyone who showed up with a suitcase full of western currency. The demand was so great the Soviets began offering manufacturing licenses to any backyard machine shop and third world village blacksmith that wanted to get into the gun manufacturing business. If you remember the brief U.S. news furor in the mid 1980's when it was revealed several U.S. small- to -medium sized metal fabrication firms were unknowingly producing parts for the AK, because the contract went through so many intermediaries. As a result of the uncontrolled mass production the USSR lost control of their quality control and many of the exported AKs, or the clones produced outside the USSR, were, and still are, unreliable weapons. If you buy one for $200 or less, you may have a fine weapon, or you may have one that will jam when you need it the most, or it may blow up in your hands. You just don't really know. For this reason many privately owned ranges have banned the AK for safety reasons.

If you insist on buying a cheap one, take it to a reliable armorer and have it checked out.

Originally posted by JackJuice


I feel like i live in bizzaro World, I am 100 percent sure that Retseh was making a joke when he said that the UK banned the word gun. Making fun of the UK for it's generally strict regulations. I don't see how anyone would think he was passing that off as fact? Maybe I just missed something here because the last couple posts just seem really strange to me.

Along with all the other BS and racist # he's posted?

Oh it's all a joke is it?

So if I say Americans are all fat, ignorant rednecks that live in trailers, sleep with their sisters/animals and sit around at night with their pants down 'round their ankles drooling over each others' weapons that'd be OK too?

If he'd have posted something about Jews having big noses, spearing babies and lending money then he'd be slapped/banned but he can post any sort of crap about the UK and it's OK as he's 'only joking'???

The guy posts made-up facts (ie lies), insults, and racial stereotypes, and gets excused because he's American?? It stinks and makes even me (a long term shooter) question the wisdom of such a person having any weapons at all.

Sleep easy in your trailers tonight and don't worry at all that Retseh may be out their popping off his shiny AK

Originally posted by Strangerous

Along with all the other BS and racist # he's posted?

Oh it's all a joke is it?

If you have issue with something he said previously then you should challenge him on those peticular racist joks or comments, to let your anger build up only to explode on something small like this just makes you seem like a fool.

As to whether he has made any comments like you say well I for one am NOT going to speculate or get into the middle of it.

Originally posted by Strangerous

So if I say Americans are all fat, ignorant rednecks that live in trailers, sleep with their sisters/animals and sit around at night with their pants down 'round their ankles drooling over each others' weapons that'd be OK too?

LOL, making fun of a Government or government policy's is hardly the same as making generalizations and stereotypes of a group of people. However you can say and think what you want.

Originally posted by Strangerous
If he'd have posted something about Jews having big noses, spearing babies and lending money then he'd be slapped/banned but he can post any sort of crap about the UK and it's OK as he's 'only joking'???

Again I'm not going to speculate about what if's and if anyone did or does I would challenge that specific post.

Originally posted by Strangerous

The guy posts made-up facts (ie lies), insults, and racial stereotypes, and gets excused because he's American?? It stinks and makes even me (a long term shooter) question the wisdom of such a person having any weapons at all.

Sleep easy in your trailers tonight and don't worry at all that Retseh may be out their popping off his shiny AK

I digress, I thought the joke about banning the word gun was funny and got a good chuckle out of it. I am again not going to speculate about any other posts but i know that joke was not racial or even an insult in my eyes. and I know he wasnt passing it off as fact.



As for Dave54's posts those are all valid points and one should always be selective of where their guns are manufactured and the quality control of the manufacturer. A bit of research will make buying your Ak a much smoother experience.

[edit on 12/10/2006 by JackJuice]

Canadians can assult weapons we just have to get the proper license. I worked with a guy who rents guns to movies and I remeber one night he fell asleep on my couch with his AK

Originally posted by JackJuice...As for Dave54's posts those are all valid points and one should always be selective of where their guns are manufactured and the quality control of the manufacturer. A bit of research will make buying your Ak a much smoother experience....

[edit on 12/10/2006 by JackJuice]

The weapon's listed country of manufacture is only the final assembly point. Where did all the component parts come from? How much use did the weapon receive and was it maintained properly? Even a weapon with a provenance from a former Soviet bloc country is not completely reliable. An inspection from a reliable armorer familiar with AKs is advisable prior to purchase.

If it is really for personal protection (an unsuitable use for the AK, but some people like it), then spend the money to get a reliable weapon from a reliable source. If it is a weapon to add to your collection and seldom if ever fire it then the discount versions are fine.

Generally those versions made as semiautos for civilian use are safe, accuracy may vary, but they are safe.

Full-auto military AKs are another story, but a field strip and inspection with mk1 eyeball will do. Just check the barrel, bolt, bolt carrier and the gas system for rust, cracks, hardened powder residues.
And remember anything coming from ex Eastern-block as surplus, sold off by the militaries have been approved for military use and gone through arsenal checks, so fittings have been checked. And if you buy a gun from a surplus dealer, they most likely check the guns too. Injured customers are bad advertisements.

If you buy the gun from a street dealer in Kabul, then you really need to be careful.

And remember, disasseble and clean all guns before firing... ALL GUNS.. no matter who has made them.

Retseh's story and the idea of the thought police made me think of that story in the UK recently where that school girl was diciplined for expressing that she would like to sit in a class with someone speaking English. As I recall the story she was diciplined for this.

I never did hear any follow ups to the story...did you??

THis kind of thing is happening here in the USA on college campuses. Thought police. It has to be a colistered type enviornment in order to survive. It is happening in our military too...another cloistered enviornment.
Some of these events have been reported and made public to the tune of much outcry from Americans. Someone has actually been able to get some of this to leak through to the media. Astonishing.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Strangerous
Along with all the other BS and racist # he's posted?

Oh it's all a joke is it?

So if I say Americans are all fat, ignorant rednecks that live in trailers, sleep with their sisters/animals and sit around at night with their pants down 'round their ankles drooling over each others' weapons that'd be OK too?

If he'd have posted something about Jews having big noses, spearing babies and lending money then he'd be slapped/banned but he can post any sort of crap about the UK and it's OK as he's 'only joking'???

The guy posts made-up facts (ie lies), insults, and racial stereotypes, and gets excused because he's American?? It stinks and makes even me (a long term shooter) question the wisdom of such a person having any weapons at all.

Sleep easy in your trailers tonight and don't worry at all that Retseh may be out their popping off his shiny AK

Good grief, so much anger - thank goodness you don't have access to firearms

Talk about a sense of humor bypass.

PS - Just to keep this on topic, a little bit of weaponry related news. Beretta has started manufacturing the model 8000 (Cougar) in Turkey, and the previous MSRP of $700 is now more like $350, that should mean about $300 in the stores. A very good buy for you prospective purchasers out there.

Merry Christmas to all, even the hoplophobes

Originally posted by Retseh


Good grief, so much anger - thank goodness you don't have access to firearms

Talk about a sense of humor bypass.

They're only a lock & key away! - you see we don't sleep with our guns in the UK, our system weeds out the rambos and firepower junkies. We know we don't live in a movie!

Talk about redneck racists posting #e!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Orangetom

Not sure where you're going with that, from the country that brought us political correctness, where debate&satire is stifled, churches take $millions off the poor and evolution is illegal in some schools to cite the UK as the home of the 'Thought Police' is very ironic.

Originally posted by Strangerous We know we don't live in a movie!

Trust me, no one would watch it

While those small uncontrolled animals the British call "kids" continue to ASBO their way into the record books of that ill executed socialist morass, ours continue to have fun at the range with evil baby killing firearms.

Enjoy !!

www.metacafe.com...

PS - Note the muzzle climb on the M-14, first round on target, after that it's an anti-aircraft weapon.

We here in the United States have a intresting phenomonon going on which is repugnant to many of us who have its fingerprint and can spot it being foisted off on us and our children..by many avenues.

The first one and most insulting is the default setting implied that somehow Hollywood , California, and the state of New York somehow represent all of America. If you want to know what Americans think ..just poll these places. No where else counts. THese places are America by default.

The other one is that we are just so backwards and degenerated because we are not following the European lead or example. Particulary the British Example.

There are enough of us who know the history of this world not to be impressed with England and her history. We admire certain historical precidents but not the history of a whole. I speak particulary of the history of the Crown and Crown colonies.
Do not presume to lecture us about racism. Nor the French in her colonies. Some of us still know this history and speak of it to those here who have been denied the privilege of this knowlege through our educational system which is attempting to model after the European systems.

We are not all that plagued by "guilt" such that is so simple to stick many of us back in a time warp to censor us. Not impressed with this technique. This is a psuedo intellectual technique. It could not have come from the bulk of Americans but only defaulted through on the sly....by intellectuals in California or New York modeling on the European systems.

Some of us know the racist history of Europe. IT is not totally covered up as of yet. They are working on it night and day. A few more decades and it will be pristine history again.

Strangerous ..my guns have locks and keys on them too. NO problem here. We just dont have to keep them at a "authorized place.

As to churchs taking millions off the poor...now who watchs to many movies. Churchs take millions off whoever they can. They are not biased about where from comes thier moneys. ..very similar to politicians. Practice that line on someone else. Talk about stereotyping and sophistication. Wow!!

As to evolution...Wow!! In the spirit of "fairness" and intellectual thinking...a level playing field in ideas and concepts...both sides should be presented..not just one. Only one would be narrow minded. Science logic and reason should be broad minded ..not narrow. Yes???
There is no doubt here that science being the intellectual and reasonable winner would welcome the competition so as to finally squash all possiblity of any other system...and squashing it for good. Dont you think?? This would be intellectual honesty. Yes???? Competition ..not defaulting to play through unchallanged...this would be politics ..not science. Yes???
Some of us can still think this one through. We have not all been vegetableized by public education and television programming/movies.

Be careful what you think is thought police..not all is as appears even on this topic.

However in fairness to the posters and mods here we are getting off topic.
My apologies for this tresspass.

I have no ambition to own a AK 47 type weapon. If another Americans wants one and is able... no problem with me. Just be responsible with it or any other weapon for that matter. Neither do I approve of that Rambo type stuff.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Orangetom

I never said the UK was perfect or indeed a model for US society to follow, you diverted the topic off with the point about some UK schoolgirl.

I was merely trying to answer your point / not let it stand as the last word.

You seem to be obsessed with proving the Brits/Europeans are bad guys. While I'd agree on certain negative aspects of all our empires (yours included) I really don't think the British Empire was as entirely bad as you and other Americans seem to believe. Your own imperial history isn't lilly-white either.

Perhaps we can agree the thought police/rise of state control and the diminution of personal responsibility is a growing trend worldwide?

As a token effort to keep on track:- I'll be firing an AK in January - just for fun, personally I don't view it as a effective/humane hunting weapon

I am not obsessed with Europeans as bad guys. That is your version of what you think I believe. My mother is German. Frankfurt AM. I have been to Germany, France and the UK..also Spain. There are lots of very intresting things to see in Europe. I am just not impressed with thier view of what passes for excellence and attempting to foist it off on us here in the states.
As previously stated..I am also not impressed with California...or New York. Perhapsed I should qualify that statement more accurately. Not impressed with Southern California or New York City. Been to both places...you can have them. Same with Hollywood. I do however know from personal experience that when you travel out of New York City into what is termed Upstate New York it is very lovely countryside. I would like to visit Northern California and the Redwood Forest areas. These seem like very lovely parts of the country...Northern California up to Washington state.

You are correct in stating that the AK ..particulary the AK 47 is not a good hunting firearm. Especially with military style ammunition. I am a reloader and reload 7.62x39 ammunition with Soft point bullets..more suited to the hunting role. Not in a AK 47 however. A bolt action rifle or a SKS would be more suitable than a AK47. I am sure someone makes this caliber in bolt action. The bullet is very light at about 123 to 125 grains but soft point would help with expansion on game. Most hunting ammunition here begins at 150 grain soft points in .30 caliber and proceeds up to around 220 grains of soft point...or round nose bullets.

And yes it is a growing trend world wide .the thought police..and lack of personal responsibility. I dont think public education helps much in this arena.

Enjoy the shooting when you go. I have not had as much time for shooting as I would like. Lots to do around here lately.

Thanks,
Orangetom