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Why is there an Insurgency in Southern Thailand?

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posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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First of all must be emphasised Thai is not an ethnic, but a cultural definition. The people of Thailand are for 75% of Sino-Tai ethnic origin. Only within the last 1000 years they have settled in their present area of Thailand. Tribes of Tai in larger numbers are today found as Hmong in Northern Vietnam, as Mong in Burma and as various groups in Yunnan commonly refered to as Tai Lu or Dai. These tribal people make up at least 3-5 millions not including the people of Laos, among Thais often degrading termed as "Thai dam" (black Thais). The former name of the country, Siam, comes from 'Siang Dam', meaning the "country of blacks", a Chinese reference to it.

In essence can be said, the present Thais are the most succesful of numerous Tai tribes, who merged into their present area and settled in what is now known as Thailand. Past the time they have established empires stretching from the Gulf of Tonkin to the Strait of Sunda.

Before imperial wars defined its present borders, the Thai kings had control over the entire Laos, Cambodia and most of the sultanates on the Malyan peninsular, as well as the Shan state of Burma. Note, their rule only went to pay tribute to the Thai kings. Alien subjects have always been allowed a wide degree of autonomy.

Which leads us to the topic, why an insurgency in the Southern provincies suddenly has risen to levels close to civil war, when the tradition of the Thais always have been tolerance and respect of diversity.

A short outline of the development can be given through Wiki articles.


A long series of conflicts has resulted in over 1200 deaths in the past decade, with more than 1000 occurring since an escalation of violence in January of 2004. In July of 2005 the Prime Minister of Thailand, Thaksin Shinawatra, assumed wide-ranging emergency powers to deal with the insurgency. In September 2006, Army Commander Sonthi Boonyaratkalin was granted an extraordinary increase in executive powers to combat the unrest. On 19 September, Sonthi and the Thai military seized power from Thaksin. Despite reconciliatory gestures from the junta, the insurgency has continued.

----
Over 80% of the population in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat continue to adhere to Islam. However, the Pattani Malays have little sense of connection with the Malays of modern Malaysia, and they speak a distinct local version of the language known as Yawi.

There has been a separatist movement in Pattani since at least the 1930s, but under successive Thai military regimes it was firmly suppressed.

Yes, and they have never been given much attention, least of all from the world society. Until the recent escalation of the conflict, incidents have been given little coverage even in the Thai press.

The worst incident prior to the present I have heard of was the bombing of the railway station of Hat Yai some time in the early 90's. Heard of, because I haven't been able to find any references or reports on it. A normal procedure have thus been to let the legendary Singapore Express run with armed guards on board. Most of the previous insurgency has been centered round railroad sabotage.


Renewed agitation began in the 1990s, led by Malay intellectuals influenced by revolutionary and Islamist ideas from the Middle East.

... It is believed that there is now a co-ordinating body called the Pattani United Liberation Organization (Dewan Pembebasan Pattani or PULO), although little is known about the composition or leadership of the various groups.

Before that it was called PULA, 'A' for army instead of organization. A detail that shows the intentions of the original liberation movement. Why then this sudden escalation in violence?


A resurgence in violence by Pattani separatist groups began in 2001. Some experts have suggested this occurred under the influence of foreign Islamist groups such as al-Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah, though such connections have never been fully substantiated and remain highly contentious. Some reports suggest that a number of Pattani Muslims have received training at al-Qaida centres in Pakistan, though many experts believe, to the contrary, that the Pattani separatism has little or nothing to do with global jihadism.

No, there are no connections, no statements, no video realeases, only ghosts to chase.


At first the government blamed the attacks on "bandits," and indeed many outside observers believe that local clan, commercial or criminal rivalries do play some part in the violence in the region.

... Minister Purachai Piemsomboon attributed the attacks on the police to the issue of drug control, as the "police are making serious efforts to make arrests over drugs trafficking."

Yes, blame in on drugs has been a mantra for a long time. A rewarding subject, so to speak.

In 2002, the ousted PM stated, "There's no separatism, no ideological terrorists, just common bandits."

By 2004 he had reversed his position, and now regarded the insurgency as the local front in the global War on Terrorism.

Martial law was instituted in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat in January of 2004.


In 2005, Bangkok Senator Sophon Supapong accused the United States of being the mastermind behind bombings in Hat Yai. His accusation was supported by Perayot Rahimmula, Democrat MP and professor at Prince of Songkhla University.

In 2006, Thai Army chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin suggested that former communist insurgents might be playing a role in the unrest. Governors of the southern provinces showed some skepticism over his suggestion, but investigated the connection.

Why would the PM change his mind as of the causes to insurgency? He's never been known to do so. Actually he's more known for being so stubborn, that he wouldn't change even stupid ideas not to loose face.

Allow me to quote myself from another thread.


In the past 5 years Thailand had more high official visits from Washington, probably than any other country on this globe except for Iraq.
...

Whatever discussion those visits subjected, I cannot know.
...
Except for one possible agenda: the high prominent neo-con visists to Bangkok could be for the metamorphosing of a local conflict of cultural autonomy into a branch of Al Queda insurgency.

A rather advanced spin it would take, so they need coaching.

[continues]

[edit on 1-12-2006 by khunmoon]
mod edit, grammar in title

[edit on 3-12-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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To this I can add, after the tsunami 26 of December 2004, the US didn't fly in help and equipment before Thai officials had agreed on handling over the Au-Tapoa airbase to American authority. It's an instalation, like most any other base in the country, build by the Americans during the Vietnam war, but for twenty-some-years ago, like they all were, given to the Thais.

Now, for some reason America needs bases in that part of the world again.

The worst natural disaster of our time was used to blackmail the Thais to hand it back.

No aid was flown in before the end of January after Poul Wolfowitch, the sleekest of all the princes of dark, had been to Bangkok and pressed the wish of Washington through. Like McNamara some 30 years earlier he got his reward for well accomplished mission.

I lived closed to that base at the time, and in the afternoon of the day the deal was settled, the air was getting thick with huge Galaxy planes accompanied by hords of Hercules machines. Much more than aid they flew in, I thought, four weeks after the tsunami had occured.

Something is going on in SE Asia we're not supposed to know about I'm convinced. And the insurgency in the South is part in that game.

Please read the chronological account of it in Wiki here.

And like Rich23 established in another thread, oil or rather gas is involved.


Agence France Presse: Thailand eyes Myanmar’s natural gas reserves
Mon 31 Jul 2006
Filed under: News, Business / Trade

Thailand’s largest energy firm PTT Plc Monday said it has joined the race against China and India in a bid for exclusive rights to military-run Myanmar’s northwestern natural gas reserves.

Another link also about the huge deposits of gas, also provided by Rich23.


International Team Completes Gas Hydrate Expedition in the Offshore of India
Released: 11/7/2006

The expedition was conducted by an international team of scientists led by the USGS and the Indian Directorate General of Hydrocarbons. Scientists explored four offshore Indian Ocean basins, including the Kerala-Konkan Basin in the Arabian Sea, the Krishna-Godawari Basin and Mahanadi Basin in the Bay of Bengal, and the Andaman Islands, to conduct scientific drilling, well logging, coring, and shipboard scientific analyses of recovered samples. Their goal was to further define the energy resource and to gain insight into the potential availability of gas hydrates for use as a viable energy product.

The science team was led by USGS scientist Dr. Timothy Collett, who believes, "this was a great opportunity to work with some of the world's best researchers. It was one of our most ambitious, complex, and comprehensive gas hydrates field ventures yet." The expedition's scientific highlights to date are:

Discovery of significant gas hydrate accumulations with the recovery of 2,850 meters of core.
Sampling and defining one of the world's richest marine gas hydrate accumulations in the Krishna-Godhavari Basin.
Discovery of one of the thickest and deepest gas hydrate occurrences in the Andaman Sea, revealing 600 meter deep gas-hydrate-bearing volcanic ash layers.
Establishment of a gas hydrate-bearing system in the Mahanadi Basin of the Bay of Bengal. Demonstration of advanced logging-while-drilling operations.
Further development of techniques for InfraRed core imaging and pressure coring data processing.

So we can conclude considerable energy ressources makes the Andaman Sea a hotbed, maybe one of last major ones to be secured in "the race for the last oil".

What role is the insurgency devised to take in that?

Please also note, the geo-strategic position of the Isthmus of Kra.

The Burmese border run its length, the statelines of Thailand and Malaysia meet there, and the Aceh province of Indonesia is a few hours sail from its Western shores.

Please keep an eye at the conflict and come forward with suggestions about the underlying motives.

The military ruler in Bangkok is now a Muslim with determined intention to put an end to it.

But look what they can come up with as goes for the funding.


Wiki
In November 2006, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont revealed that the insurgency was being finance by restaurants and stalls selling Tom Yam Kung in Malaysia. Surayud claimed that the Tom Yam Kung network collected money from local businessmen through blackmail and demands for protection fees and channelled the sum to the separatists. Malaysian Deputy Security Minister Fu Ah Kiow described the revelation as "absolutely baseless," and "very imaginative."

Common! This statement smells of more than just Tom Yum Kung.

What kind of smell do you think it has?



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 11:11 PM
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Khunmoon how about getting some facts correct before laying claim to another conspiracy!

The area in Question has been a hot bed for some 80 years, if not longer as locals desire their own independant nation. WWII saw the people of this area side with the allies in the hope of gaining independance at the end whilst Thailand was under Japanese control. It didn't happen of course.

Conflict occured in the late 40's and early 50's before the Thai government gained control and also the Malay emergency ending helped.

The recent conflict resurgance has more than likely been fueled by other areas gaining independance like Timor Leste, the struggle in Aceh and other areas of Indonesia giving these people hope of acheiving the same.

As for Utapao air base, well the US forces had a task force headquaters on the base in three days and aircraft from the US, Australia, Canada and others were flying in as soon as possile. If you lived that close surely you would know this.

It has also been used as a base for US military aircraft attacking targets in Iraq and Afghanistan which may explain your C-5/C-130 influx at the time.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 12:32 AM
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I was under the impression that Malays are some of the most racist people on the planet, take for example non-Malays in Malaysia, ritually discriminated against and massively under representated as a percentage of the population, it last like 30 years Chinese Malaysian have gone from 45pc to 25pc of Population, yet Malaysia lets 3 million Muslim Indonesians immigrate and gives them a higher social rank (bumiputra) than Malaysian born Chinese.

Just see how how it is to move to Malaysia, especially as a non Muslim and you will see that Malays are racists or atleast represented by Muslim Malay racists.

SO it is my opinion that most of the Trouble in Sth Thailand is from Islamofascists that are quite possibly sponsored by Racist Malaysian Government officals.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 01:23 AM
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I have a very simple answer.....MUSLIMS!



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
I was under the impression that Malays are some of the most racist people on the planet, take for example non-Malays in Malaysia, ritually discriminated against and massively under representated as a percentage of the population, it last like 30 years Chinese Malaysian have gone from 45pc to 25pc of Population, yet Malaysia lets 3 million Muslim Indonesians immigrate and gives them a higher social rank (bumiputra) than Malaysian born Chinese.

Just see how how it is to move to Malaysia, especially as a non Muslim and you will see that Malays are racists or atleast represented by Muslim Malay racists.

SO it is my opinion that most of the Trouble in Sth Thailand is from Islamofascists that are quite possibly sponsored by Racist Malaysian Government officals.


I think you'll find many indigineous people detest non-indigineous people within their borders. Malaysia is no exception. Many countries have simular issues. Malay's are very religious but in my experiance also no more racist than most other people i have met over the years.

In regards to being able to settle in Malysia - Japan is even tougher. Many countries are making it hard to settle or immigrate. To blame the troubles on Muslims as a whole is wrong IMHO. Malay's have little in common with the Muslims in Thailand except religion.

I do think however that Thai officals may be playing down the religious overtones of the insurgency more for tourism reasons than anything else. The area is near some of Thailands big tourist areas and a religious conflict is more fearful to outsiders than a small localised issue as Thailand leads many to believe.

If Malysian officials were to sponsor an insurgency it would be in Borneo, not on the Malay peninsula - Borneo is more richer in resources and a scene of confrontation in the 60's.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by dagebow
Khunmoon how about getting some facts correct before laying claim to another conspiracy!

The area in Question has been a hot bed for some 80 years, if not longer as locals desire their own independant nation. WWII saw the people of this area side with the allies in the hope of gaining independance at the end whilst Thailand was under Japanese control. It didn't happen of course.

Conflict occured in the late 40's and early 50's before the Thai government gained control and also the Malay emergency ending helped.

To the best of my knowledge I have not posted any incorrect facts. As for claims... hm, I would rather call it speculations.

Maybe you misread my post as if the present insurgency occurred all a sudden. That is in no way what I'm saying. I said "suddenly has risen" and for the previous development I give a refference to Wiki.

If it's not that clear the way I'm writting it, then it's because this discussion about insurgenency was started off topic on another thread, so more or less unconciously I might have assumed known what was said their. My appologies for that slip.

I'm reasonablely informed about the history of post-colonial wars and that of modern Thailand. Thus being quiet aware insurgency is by far a new thing in the South, my point is the rising of the level of incidents as well as causualties coincide with the establishment of the Thaksin rule. The early insurgency probably had to do with vain hopes of joining Malaya, the british colony as it in 1957 was turned into Malaysia.

But the bottom line would be, if you made a graph of the incidents of the past half century, that despite from single peaks, a much higher general level would start to rise in 2001 reaching its peak in 2004 and from there remain on a high were it still is. It coincides with the Thaksin rule.

As for Au-tapao, I'm not aware that it should be for only three days. Fact is from 27th of December the Thai government gave unristricted access to major airports for flights carrying relief aid, and it wasn't before details about Au-tapoa had been negosiated to Washington's satisfaction, that the major bulk of American aid arrived. It was around the 20th of January. That said I'm not saying other US aid might not had come in prior.

But there was an outcry in Thai media that the bulk was withheld because of "legal inconsistencies".



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have a very simple answer.....MUSLIMS!


that could just be an ignorant answer

the problem is the general political instability that thailand has faced

good example of this, the recent coup
i was talking to my thai neigbors about it the other day, and they were neither shocked or concerned because it has happened so often in their life



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
I have a very simple answer.....MUSLIMS!


that could just be an ignorant answer

the problem is the general political instability that thailand has faced

good example of this, the recent coup
i was talking to my thai neigbors about it the other day, and they were neither shocked or concerned because it has happened so often in their life


well with at least 70% or more of the current conflicts involving muslims in some fashion, Id have to say it was a pretty intelligent answer.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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Mmm, ok. I am unaware of Thai politics to a deep level. I am aware that Thaksin was despised by the southern muslim population and also budhist Thai's, and they had wanted to discuss a truce with the head of the Thai army (a muslim).

Thaksin's demise due to the coup in September may in the long run be the best thing. He had a reputation of strong political control over Thailand, anti-king statements and anti-coruption. Someone who is possible more attuned to what the people want may head off this insurgency in years to come. I am aware that despite the coup, attacks still occur to try to force talks.

Regarding aid, well if you recall the USA was slow to offer aid to the tsunami victims, and it did take about a month for the USA to increase its aid package. The negotiations would have been i feel for Iraq/Afghanistan as Thailand opposed these interventions/conflicts. It is not a good way to negotiate but it seems to be the American Government way unfortunately.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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You have voted khunmoon for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

This is shaping up to be a very interesting topic. I need to do a lot more reading before I can post anything that really adds to it, but you get a WATS vote at least.

And I also have to say that the people who come here and just spout the same old islamophobe stuff get no respect from me. They bring no facts to the thread, and jump to conclusions that fit their prejudices just to make themselves feel superior. I've also seen the word "racist" bandied about by someone who is completely unconscious of the extent to which they are (in the psychiatric sense) projecting. Tragic. I hope that the investigative and scholarly attitude of the OP prompts some proper debate rather than the primitive knee-jerk reactions of some of the posters thus far.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by rich23
And I also have to say that the people who come here and just spout the same old islamophobe stuff get no respect from me. They bring no facts to the thread, and jump to conclusions that fit their prejudices just to make themselves feel superior. I've also seen the word "racist" bandied about by someone who is completely unconscious of the extent to which they are (in the psychiatric sense) projecting. Tragic. I hope that the investigative and scholarly attitude of the OP prompts some proper debate rather than the primitive knee-jerk reactions of some of the posters thus far.


You have voted rich23 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

thank you so much
oh, and i second your decision

You have voted khunmoon for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
well with at least 70% or more of the current conflicts involving muslims in some fashion, Id have to say it was a pretty intelligent answer.



so, because muslims are involved in conflicts they are the root of conflicts...
no, that isn't intelligent, it's actually illogical

maybe the problem is guns, because 100% of armed conflicts involve guns



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Extreamly infomative and interesting thread, khunmoon. Thank you very much for posting it (yes, you got my WATS vote too).

I wonder how much of all this conflict in connected to Thialand's recent changes in their views towards their sex-trade and sex in general. I watched an interesting documentary recently on how they've started to go "Islamic" in their sexual attitudes, ie becoming ruthlessly brutal towards sex-workers and condesending towards and public display of "sexyness".



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
well with at least 70% or more of the current conflicts involving muslims in some fashion, Id have to say it was a pretty intelligent answer.



so, because muslims are involved in conflicts they are the root of conflicts...
no, that isn't intelligent, it's actually illogical

maybe the problem is guns, because 100% of armed conflicts involve guns


Thailand could do what its southern neighbour has done, ban all guns.

Bitraiser - Thailands cleaning up is probably one of the best moves its done in awhile - the sex industry brought in crime, drugs and other unwanted vices and removing this like Malaysia also has done should help reduce crime especially in Bangkok. Sex tours were very popular for westerners and all at the expense of local girls who were sold into the sex trade by parents desperate for money to buy food etc.

The big problem however is now Thai and other asian girls are being lured overseas and forced into overseas sex industries by criminal gangs in Asia with ties in western countries.

One extra thing i'd like to throw in here - Thaksins overthrow by the military. I understand the future king of Thailand is unpopular with the military and even the people. Would this coup be a way of securing the princess as the future ruler of Thailand?



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 07:34 PM
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Thanks to all of you for all the support and credits. Thank you for the encouragement.

I don't worry too much about the phobiadics and their fears, I would gladly help them out of their misconceptions, but I don't think they want to - so I ignore. A request I strongly suggest serious contributors to adhere.

To make all the background info available I post a link to my single post of a previous thread where the debate was started, as it too is to be considered part of the OP for this thread.
But please do try to read as much of that thread you can endure. Just to see how bad it goes, when a topic is released more for scandal than for discussion. Though the topic of that thread definately is related to Southern insurgency it seems to be more for the indignation than the analyse. More for creating grounds for racist statements than to offer any insight.

To add to the background I should emphasise, that by the first massacre, killing 112 juveniles on the 28th of April 2004, CNN reported also Buddhist to be among the slain.

The incident also displayed the unlogic of a scene out of any context normally conveyed to sectarian upheavels.

First of all the attackers seemed to be of mixed beliefs pretty well in proportions of the religious diversity of the South. They came - in numbers reported to no less than 3 to 4 hundred, maybe as high as 6 hundred - on brand new motorbikes only armed with knives and machetees. Despite the fact firarms were looted at the 4th of January incident earlier that year. That they were on something was evident as to why they would attend in a suicidal attack like that.

Most remarkable was the security forces seemed to know excactly were and when they would appear and therefore were fully prepared. Thus the succes of the carnage.

It is details like that, which adds to the mystery of the true cause of the conflict, and let me repeat once more, none have so far come forward to take response for anything. A detail in my opinion making it unlikely to have anything to do with classic Islamic insurgency, the Jihad style.

For dagebow on the former PM

He had a reputation of strong political control over Thailand, anti-king statements and anti-coruption.
I would say, maybe it's semantic misinterpretion, but the foremost issue that axed him was he took corruption to levels even for Thailand unseen. But it is true he was elected on a promise to put an end to corruption.

What in my opinion made him fel, was that the old money finally got cold feet concerning his way, after at first been mesmerized by his CEO style of running government. His declaration when taking office was to run the country in a corporate style. Everybody liked that. Conspiracy thinking is for the very, very few in this country.

One who looked through it was the old king, by far the most revered person and one of the truely wise, he replied his management style by saying, "one cannot know if it is Enron he has as model".

Considered the richest man in the kingdom, he made his fortune in the IT and telecom bizz. Started out in the early 80's earning his reputation installing IBM mainframes for the civic and military administration. As a first reward he was given sole monopoly on cell phone com.

But being a newly rich you don't earn respect with the established richees - unless you make them earn money. So he did, but he took it to a degree, where even they had to sustain. His anti-royal remarks might be what made him fall.

He never spoke out directly, but what hit the nail was probably his remark about "an extra constitutional person" who prevented him from fulfilling his constitutional duties.

Also must be added, he had his education and background in the police-force, which he completely controlled. That can be partly said about the military as well. But the navy and air-force he didn't control. The latter staged the coup.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Khunmoon thanks for the link and extra information on Thaksin. The previous thread certainly was a heated debate from what i read briefly.


This link to global security is an interesting read
www.globalsecurity.org...

I understand were you are coming from in this topic Khunmoon but, and this is just my own thoughts, i feel the area has become a haven for people able to make use of the corruption and lawlessness in the area. A clamp down by the Thai government has probably forced the hand of several seperatist groups to act with violent means whilst trying to keep their own lifestyle intact in terms of drug or other illegal activities. The Andaman sea resources could as you have already stated be a catalyst for this increase in viloence but i feel its more a power struggle due to Thaksins heavy clamp down on the area.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by dagebow
Thailands cleaning up is probably one of the best moves its done in awhile - the sex industry brought in crime, drugs and other unwanted vices and removing this like Malaysia also has done should help reduce crime especially in Bangkok.

I can only agree it's a move in the right direction, but actually I do think the cause-effect is the other way around. That the drug trade and connected crimes enhanced the sex industry into its present proportions.

Since the days of the opium wars Britain waged on China, drugs has been an inseperable part of Thai economy. Started by the Bowing Treaty of 1855, that the British forced upon Siam to grow rice to feed their impire and open up for trade, it's been there. The one favour returned was the right to collect tax on all the opium passing through the kingdom. When the Chinese finally had secured their harbours litterally every ounce entering China went up the river from Bangkok and further by caravans into Yunnan. Thats the foundation for the wealth of the old ruling families - and it is immense.

The Vietnam war meant new opportunities and again drugs were the far most profitable deal, heavily promoted by CIA's secret wars. The single most important player - or pawn if you like - in the Indochina wars was Thailand. If not for the strong presence and complete control by the Americans of the country, of course helped by a highly motivated elite, it would had been war-torn as well.

As the drugs are, the unknown amount of napalm strewn over the hills of its remote provincies was the behind the scenes part of the Indochina wars.

But in my opinion the drugs eventually made way for the sex-industry, which in itself initially hardly was subject to any moral indignation at all. The orient view on sex is actually far more "free" than ours. What made the industry in no way offensive is due to their traditional bigamist system of concubines, a system only about to die out officially with the previous generation. The problem left behind is a bulk of mostly attractive women who only as far as their social background goes can get any chance of self-employment.

And dagebow, as for your last sentence, any discussion of the royal family is highly taboo, and a great hazard to your health when you live in the country, so I cannot participate there. But yes, the prince you mention has been connected to the ousted PM. How much I would like I cannot tell you the gossip going on among people, because these are issues that is never - and I even think ever has - been brought to print. I can only say the old king, who tomorrow will turn 79, like I said earlier is the most loved person by litterally ALL the people of the kingdom.

Cannot be said about others.

Until the social structures and disaparities are changed - and it's hard to see coming any time soon - the sextrade will remain. But that it is part in the game of trade is beyond doubt - so they're under pressure.

Like trade negotiatians in the 20's and 30's outlawed the concubine system, it is hard to see a settlement on this issue. Prostitution has always been illegal in the country, so what can they do? I don't hope implementing "islamic" solutions will be an option.


[edit on 3-12-2006 by khunmoon]



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
I was under the impression that Malays are some of the most racist people on the planet, take for example non-Malays in Malaysia, ritually discriminated against and massively under representated as a percentage of the population, it last like 30 years Chinese Malaysian have gone from 45pc to 25pc of Population, yet Malaysia lets 3 million Muslim Indonesians immigrate and gives them a higher social rank (bumiputra) than Malaysian born Chinese.

Just see how how it is to move to Malaysia, especially as a non Muslim and you will see that Malays are racists or atleast represented by Muslim Malay racists.

SO it is my opinion that most of the Trouble in Sth Thailand is from Islamofascists that are quite possibly sponsored by Racist Malaysian Government officals.


Responding to the first para, as a local let me inform you that the so-called rise in the Malay population has more to do with the broad definition of what a Malay is as defined by the Malaysian constitution:


From Article 160, Clause 2 of the Malaysian Constitution

"Malay" means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom and -

* (a) was before Merdeka Day born in the Federation or in Singapore or born of parents one of whom was born in the Federation or in Singapore, or is on that day domiciled in the Federation or in Singapore; or
* (b) is the issue of such a person;


That means that practically anyone of any colour or appearance can be a "Malay". And such is the case in real life in Malaysia. I have met many people of South Indian (Tamil) lineage who fit the definition stated above. They are Malays. But you wouldn't know that they are until they spoke up and tell you that they are Malay.

I have also met people who anyone from the US would call Chinese or "Asian" who are constitutionally Malay. In fact, the most bizzare "Malay" I've met is a guy called Izuddin whom if you'd bump into in London you would've thought was a Scottish. He had flaming curly red hair and was as Caucasian as they come, standing much taller than most Asians, including Malays . He is a Malay.

Hell, I don't even look Malay. I look Chinese by day and Hispanic by night on account of my Portuguese and Chinese blood. People often ask me if I'm local to which I'd reply "Ye lah, ah te?" (Yeah, otherwise?) in my thickest Perak Malay accent I can produce. Some Chinese people mistake me for one of them, especially during midday when the brightness makes me squint. But I am Malay.

Now why would all these people of varying lineages claim that they are Malay? To get the coveted Bumiputra status. Which makes me agree with the second half of your second paragraph. Can't be helped. Political leaders anywhere like to use those sort of appeal, that is, "our [race/class/culture/whatever other grouping of humans one can apply] is better than the other..." to gain support and since at least half the population of anywhere are somewhat ignorant and closet red-necks the appeal usually works. So despite half the Malays wanting to end the affirmative action the Bumiputra status grants, the other half disagrees and the whole argument has been deadlocked for years. Humans are not too bright.

As for your third paragraph, well, that's possible though highly improbable. As dagebow mentioned earlier, Borneo is a far more interesting place. There are more natural resources there (oil and gas among others) that there ever was on the Peninsular, much less the Isthmus. However, if you say that the insurgency in South Thailand is being funded indirectly by Malaysians via the drug trade, I'd back you up cause that's much more likely than funding by the Malaysian Government or Tom Yam stalls in Kelantan.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by Beachcoma]



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 09:39 AM
link   

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
good example of this, the recent coup
i was talking to my thai neigbors about it the other day, and they were neither shocked or concerned because it has happened so often in their life

That's actually a very good snapshot, clear and sharp of the very laid back style of Thais.

Under 60 years reign of the honourable king Bhumipol they have experienced several coup d'etat . . . about 20 times or so.
And the latest was the first one in 15 years.
So, as you can figure the frequency earlier must have been about one or more once a year. No wonder they've learned not to bother too much.

For most Thais, politics is something that happens while they are busy surviving . . . and actually very few of them have much idea what it is about at all, except that it can make you die or disappear . . . or get you incredible rich.

All have an idea that it's corrupt, and some can see it as being manipulated and heavily spun. After this coup for instance very little exposure has been put on the functioning government. They only appear at national events or disasters.

It's the night of the majesty's birthday and he has just delivered his annual speech to the people. When translations are avaliable I - or someone else - will post a link to his speech.
His words, mostly commentaries to the life in the kingdom through the past year, is all listened to and well heeded.
-----

For Beachcoma,
"You have voted Beachcoma for the Way Above Top Secret . . . --have two more votes this month--"
. . . for giving a proper and correct answer to a post of Number's.

Thank you Beach!

[edit on 4-12-2006 by khunmoon]



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