Britain could possibly reduce Nuclear Fleet

Mr Antiblair,

A few question if you dont mind taking them from someone with a naval backround?

Firstly what ships did you serve on?
What branch where you?
What rank where you?

Also where you by any chance a drill instructor?

Originally posted by stumason
Semantics. The Conservatives actually brought in some of the biggest defence cuts ever seen

I repeat: READ THE MESSAGES I WRITE! I said they never cut military expenditures DURING A WAR, i.e. after a war began.

The fleet they sent to the Falklands was not up to the task.

And yet we won, losing 2 times less soldiers than the Argies did.

I am actually.

No, you aren't. You are free to consider someone else wrong, and try lecturing them but it doesn't make these people wrong. And lecturing someone who actually fought a war against Hussein is arrogant, and means you are just an arrogant kid who doesn't know how he should behave. Never mind that you're wrong about Iraq.

Don't patronise me just because you spent 25 years of your life bobbing around at sea.

This is the first time a veteran is treated this way. But hey, you're just an anonymous arrogant youngster, so no one's going to punish you and you therefore think you are allowed to lecture anyone you want. OK, keep arguing with me and you'll understand that you are wrong. Don't think that anyone's going to admit being wrong if he isn't just because you say he is.

Were you a Captain? And Admiral maybe? Where you even an Officer?

And if I am a retired naval officer (never mind that you spell incorrectly)?

I doubt it. My bet is Chief Petty Officer at best, maybe in Marine Engineering, unless you had some noggins upstairs, in which case you'd be doing Weapons or Comms.

I don't need you or any other armchair general who says he's considering whether to join the Air Force to tell me what tasks I was doing when I was a sailor. If you want to disdain me, keep doing so, I don't care. I know better than you what tasks I was performing. I've served my country for 25 years, and I'm ready to do it again.

I have access to over 2 man-centuries worth of military experience from members of my own family. From a serving RAF Wing Commander, to various Army sergeants, to some Navy personnel, all willing and able to give me whatever info I please. I am more likely to believe them than an old sailor

So? YOU personally never served, and we are talking about you. Never mind that my ancestors have also served Britain.

Your the one who made this personal by questioning my ability to know anything just because you served and I have not. So what? Does that make your opinion more valid than mine? Are you saying you are somehow a better person for it? Personally, you might be from before you joined, but you cannot compare yourself against someone else and say you are better because you served. That is arrogant to the extreme.

I have EVERY right to question you and question you I shall. I couldn't give a rats buttock that you "served against Saddam" or consider yourself a veteran. It does not mean i should worship the ground you walk or even accept anything you say as truth. If I did, what kind of veteran would you be to allow it? After all, didn't you serve to protect the very freedoms your now attempting to deny me? How 1984....

Anyhoo..

Why am I "wrong" about Iraq. You claim this on multiple threads without specifically saying what it is we are wrong about. Give me an example of my wrongness and I shall address it.

Until then, stop the bitching.

I like to debate points and facts, not nebulous ideas you picked up while in the Persian Gulf...

Originally posted by stumason
So what? Does that make your opinion more valid than mine?

You began lecturing me not only about the war I fought and you didn't, but also about everything else. So stop now bitching that I treat you as you deserve to be treated. And lecturing someone who has fought GW1 about that war is arrogant.

How 1984....

1984?

Why am I "wrong" about Iraq. You claim this on multiple threads without specifically saying what it is we are wrong about.

I did say. For example, you blamed us for delivering Saddam the poison gas he killed those 5000 Kurds with. Before I told you about that you claimed that he didn't have any WMDs whatsoever.

But if you nevertheless think Blair made a mistake, OK - you are allowed to think he committed a mistake. So don't vote for him (which I guess you don't).

Originally posted by AntiBliarPolitician

Originally posted by stumason
So what? Does that make your opinion more valid than mine?

You began lecturing me not only about the war I fought and you didn't, but also about everything else. So stop now bitching that I treat you as you deserve to be treated. And lecturing someone who has fought GW1 about that war is arrogant.

Just because you were there it does not mean you know the reasons why, or the build up prior, or the diplomatic maneuvers that were taking place, etc etc....

There is more to the Gulf Wars than "Saddam Bad...We Good".

In fact, I do not question anything you say about the actual combat, as you rightly say, I wasn't there.

I do however have the advantage of hindsight and a wealth of knowledge at my fingertips about what happened leading to the War, during the War and after. That is where I do not think you "know" any more than I.

Originally posted by AntiBliarPolitician

How 1984....

1984?

Never mind. Would have thought you would have read the book. It seemed ironic that someone fighting for freedom would come home and attempt to deny it.

Originally posted by AntiBliarPolitician

Why am I "wrong" about Iraq. You claim this on multiple threads without specifically saying what it is we are wrong about.

I did say. For example, you blamed us for delivering Saddam the poison gas he killed those 5000 Kurds with. Before I told you about that you claimed that he didn't have any WMDs whatsoever.

You seem to be having some sort of problem with chronology, here. I never denied he HAD them prior to GW1 (see, past tense used there) as I even said we sold them to him.

I questioned wether he still had them when we invaded the 2nd time round, which he didn't.

He destroyed them like we asked in the years between GW1 and GW2. We were lied too by our won leaders.

Go back and re-read my posts if your getting confused. It might stop some high blood pressure as well if we don't start crossing some sort of temporal boundary....

Originally posted by AntiBliarPolitician
But if you nevertheless think Blair made a mistake, OK - you are allowed to think he committed a mistake. So don't vote for him (which I guess you don't).

Yes, the lying, slimey little bugger made a huge mistake. That is apparent. And no, I didn't vote for him. I voted Lib Dem as I didn't fancy the Con's too much either, although Cameron may get my vote next time.


[edit on 26/12/06 by stumason]