Originally posted by insite
we are not talking about history, we are talking about issues that matter RIGHT NOW. guns kill too many people. take away the guns does not mean you resort to knives, that is an unfounded statement and you are pulling it out of the air. shoot me with your little emoticon gun. if russian is the only one im debating against im going to sleep, this person needs a head check and must visit a psychologist immediately

Read my last post. Good people make mistakes everyday that result in death. Your argument has no foundation. No more than saying we should ban cars.

Originally posted by insite
we are not talking about history, we are talking about issues that matter RIGHT NOW. guns kill too many people. take away the guns does not mean you resort to knives, that is an unfounded statement and you are pulling it out of the air. shoot me with your little emoticon gun. if russian is the only one im debating against im going to sleep, this person needs a head check and must visit a psychologist immediately

It looks like you are the one in need of a brain scan.

You try to disarm USA and then we all get murdered!

You are boring zzzzzz

Originally posted by TheManWithThePlan
statistics:

Most criminals that break into a home do not have weapons. They usually think you aren't there and just want a tv or something. They are usually not armed.

I can agree with this. These people are looking to break into your home to steal things. They don't want to become murderers. The penalty of law is quite different between b&e and murder. If someone comes in your house while you are home and you yell I have called the cops, they will most likely leave, they don't want to kill you. It isn't until you try to confront them that things get dangerous. Install an alarm system, they aren't going to break into a house with the alarm going off.

Seapeople,
I see your point i really do. But that is not the issue. We are talking about guns. the tools that allow people to murder and harm each other. bolts are not used for this and neither is a car (in most instances). You may not be a murderer, but what about the crazy who breaks into your home while you are away and slays a few schoolkids while you are away? doesnt scratch off the serial? then its your ass.

insite,

why are you a liberal when you are in a family with a 43 foot sailboat?

Originally posted by insite
Seapeople,
I see your point i really do. But that is not the issue. We are talking about guns. the tools that allow people to murder and harm each other. bolts are not used for this and neither is a car (in most instances). You may not be a murderer, but what about the crazy who breaks into your home while you are away and slays a few schoolkids while you are away? doesnt scratch off the serial? then its your ass.

What about the crazy who steels my car...doesnt take off the liscense plate. Flies through a school zone and takes out 20 people. Then its my butt too.

Every argument you post is valid. That doesnt mean that for every single one I cant come up with one that holds just as much water. Your point isnt anyt more valid than mine. Its just your opinion.

[Edited on 11/16/2003 by Seapeople]

THENEO,
Because i think for myself and my family does not tell me who to vote for. thats not the point. why did you ask me this question? are you looking for conflict? I like you man, i think you post quality. I dont want you to not like me because of the ideologies i stand behind.

Seapeople,
you are exactly right, but you cant sit there at your computer and type to me that you hoestly believe a car is a killing machine built for the destruction of life. while a gun is just a tool used by hunters to gather food for their family so they dont starve.

Originally posted by magestica
Removing/banning guns ultimately removes other rights. For instance, hunting. What would someone who loves to hunt use then? Bow and arrow? Sure, those are just as safe as guns..

People use rifles to hunt, they don't use hand guns. When was the last time someone had road rage on the freeway and shot someone else with a rifle.

And yes there are wackos who kill with a rifle, such as the sniper killers. But not one of those victims would be alive today if they had a handgun strapped to their waste.

Yeah, and I am going to knock over a convenience store with a bow and arrow.

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

Originally posted by insite
Seapeople,
you are exactly right, but you cant sit there at your computer and type to me that you hoestly believe a car is a killing machine built for the destruction of life. while a gun is just a tool used by hunters to gather food for their family so they dont starve.

That point is valid too. But they both produce the same effect. Guns are a product that we designed. Nomatter how hard you try to take them away from us. People will still have them. The only problem with that is the only people who will have them at that point are the ones who shouldnt. Guns are meant for killing yes. Why did we invent them? To kill. Why? Because no matter what you say we will kill each other. It is human nature to kill. Thats why guns are here. That goes back to what I was saying about communism. If we could all live happily ever after we would. But we cant. There would be no use in taking away guns. Honestly. Whether cars are intended to be weapons or not. If someone had their gun taken away, and they wanted to kill me. All they had was there car. They will wait outside my house for me and run me down. Simple as that.

greenkoolaid,
your example is perfect. this goes out to russian, how successful would the DC snipers be if they used throwing knives instead of their .22?

Originally posted by greenkoolaid

Originally posted by magestica
Removing/banning guns ultimately removes other rights. For instance, hunting. What would someone who loves to hunt use then? Bow and arrow? Sure, those are just as safe as guns..

People use rifles to hunt, they don't use hand guns. When was the last time someone had road rage on the freeway and shot someone else with a rifle.

And yes there are wackos who kill with a rifle, such as the sniper killers. But not one of those victims would be alive today if they had a handgun strapped to their waste.

Yeah, and I am going to knock over a convenience store with a bow and arrow.

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

Maybe not with a bow and arrow. What about a pocket knife? Thats plausable.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by insite
russian,
lets be reasonable. If you really wanted a gun, you most definately could get one. but what about the people who do not need a gun, come across one, realise the power it holds and lose all sense of reality. they shoot, they maim, they kill over what? a single experience. taking away guns would make it hard for the average joe to get one. thats garunteed. the psychos would remain, yes thats true, but what about the person who isnt a psycho, the person who only kills by mistake or error in judgement. beleive me it makes up a majority of the death toll and it can be stopped by simply passing legislation

I am not a murderer. A few months ago I fell alseep at the wheel of my car. I caused a bad accident. Everyone is OK. Someone could have died. It is the same thing with guns. It is exactly the same situation. How many people die every day that dont have to because good people make mistakes. Oops I didnt tighten the bolt enough. BAM the entire steel column falls killing two people. I guess we should ban bolts too then. And cars.

man you haven't made one valid arguement yet.

Originally posted by insite
greenkoolaid,
your example is perfect. this goes out to russian, how successful would the DC snipers be if they used throwing knives instead of their .22?

How succesful would jeffrey dahmer have been without a rifle or handgun?

Better yet, how successful would he have been if one of his victims was armed with a .22???

[Edited on 11/16/2003 by Seapeople]

Originally posted by greenkoolaid

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by insite
russian,
lets be reasonable. If you really wanted a gun, you most definately could get one. but what about the people who do not need a gun, come across one, realise the power it holds and lose all sense of reality. they shoot, they maim, they kill over what? a single experience. taking away guns would make it hard for the average joe to get one. thats garunteed. the psychos would remain, yes thats true, but what about the person who isnt a psycho, the person who only kills by mistake or error in judgement. beleive me it makes up a majority of the death toll and it can be stopped by simply passing legislation

I am not a murderer. A few months ago I fell alseep at the wheel of my car. I caused a bad accident. Everyone is OK. Someone could have died. It is the same thing with guns. It is exactly the same situation. How many people die every day that dont have to because good people make mistakes. Oops I didnt tighten the bolt enough. BAM the entire steel column falls killing two people. I guess we should ban bolts too then. And cars.

man you haven't made one valid arguement yet.

If I havent made one valid argument yet. Why dont they just ban guns tomorrow??? Just because you have an opinion doesnt mean that it is right. My opinion is based on just as much information as yours. Yet its different. Your dream world will never occur, why try to make it?

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by insite
greenkoolaid,
your example is perfect. this goes out to russian, how successful would the DC snipers be if they used throwing knives instead of their .22?

How succesful would jeffrey dahmer have been without a rifle or handgun?

Better yet, how successful would he have been if one of his victims was armed with a .22???

[Edited on 11/16/2003 by Seapeople]

Probably just as effective, they wouldn't have gotten out there .22 before he grabbed them and rendered them powerless. Its not like he chased them down the street slashing with a knife.

Seapeople,
So your defense is this: Lets keep our right to have guns, people are going to kill each other anyway we may as well let them use a gun, why not? If not a gun they would use a car, lets make it easy and give people the option to use a specifically designed killing mechanism. Read what you just wrote. Dont you think thats messed up? It's giving people an easy option to use for murder! You want to give psychos this option purely for the reason that it is inherently natural for people to want to cause others harm? Personally I feel no need for a gun, or the need to kill anyone, does this make me inhuman?

Im out, I feel that this thread has gotten to a point where we are just expressing our points of view. not everyone meshes nicely and thats what i like. keep it up people, stay smart and dont let anyone force their ideas on you.

As for the point about Bowling For Columbine calling for the banning of all guns, I don't think that was his whole point. I think his point was that something in American culture makes them more violent than other countries. he interviews a number of Canadians who have handguns. He states that there about 7 million guns in 10 millions homes in Canada. He says that Canada is one gun toting, gun loving country, and yet is doesn't have nearly the murder rate. I think that was his point. That America is a culture of fear. And when they are afraid they reach for their guns.

[Edited on 16-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

My argument is just as valid as yours or there would be no more guns, your opinion is taken. It is no more right than mine.

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by greenkoolaid

Originally posted by Seapeople

Originally posted by insite
russian,
lets be reasonable. If you really wanted a gun, you most definately could get one. but what about the people who do not need a gun, come across one, realise the power it holds and lose all sense of reality. they shoot, they maim, they kill over what? a single experience. taking away guns would make it hard for the average joe to get one. thats garunteed. the psychos would remain, yes thats true, but what about the person who isnt a psycho, the person who only kills by mistake or error in judgement. beleive me it makes up a majority of the death toll and it can be stopped by simply passing legislation

I am not a murderer. A few months ago I fell alseep at the wheel of my car. I caused a bad accident. Everyone is OK. Someone could have died. It is the same thing with guns. It is exactly the same situation. How many people die every day that dont have to because good people make mistakes. Oops I didnt tighten the bolt enough. BAM the entire steel column falls killing two people. I guess we should ban bolts too then. And cars.

man you haven't made one valid arguement yet.

If I havent made one valid argument yet. Why dont they just ban guns tomorrow??? Just because you have an opinion doesnt mean that it is right. My opinion is based on just as much information as yours. Yet its different. Your dream world will never occur, why try to make it?

Because you are not making statements about guns being good. You are saying that other things are bad and they are allowed, so guns should be allowed too. That is not a logical and valid arguement in my opinion.