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UN ambulance used to transport and help terrorists.

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posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 11:54 AM
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www.youtube.com...

Don't you just hate that. Shoot up the ambulance and Israel would look bad in the world. Does this violate the Geneva Convention??
I wonder if the UN knows about this...




posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
www.youtube.com...

Don't you just hate that. Shoot up the ambulance and Israel would look bad in the world. Does this violate the Geneva Convention??
I wonder if the UN knows about this...

Come on, you cant blame the UN for this. As best as they try there will always be suporters that breach the ranks of the UN, hell how many PIRA people snuck past the security screening for army caterrers or office assistants?



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:00 PM
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Forgive me for saying so... but that vid-clip strikes me as a bit fishy.
I can't put my finger on it, but something is saying "staged event" to me.

Maybe because there's a whole lot of shooting going on, but people don't really look like they are running in terror. Yeah, they run for it, but not in the "mad-dash get the hell outta here before you get clipped" sorta way I'd expect. Maybe it's because nobody actually falls to that gun fire. I see one dude holding his arm like he's been wounded, but I don't see any blood or other indecations of a wound actually being there.

Maybe it's the fact that the explosion looks more like a placed pyrotecnic device that goes off uselessly and at a harmless distance from anything worth blowing up (including the people).

I donno... anyone else feel this could be a bit of vid-fraud?



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:10 PM
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LOL guess you never seen how grenades explode. Its not like what you expect in every explosion thats supposed to blow big. And not to mention how the heck can you see his wound at night? Thats why theres no blood.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:12 PM
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This has been happening for awhile although it is the first instance of using a UN ambulance I've seen. I don't think Israel has ever mistakenly shot up an actual ambulance yet, but they do all get checked now at checkpoints which involves pretty critical delays if you're transporting a real emergency victim.

It is very much against the Geneva Convention. Unfortunately this is one of those things where if everyone doesn't follow the rules, the whole system collapses. If militants are known to be using ambulances, even sporadically, then Israel has no real choice in the matter.

This is one of the reasons I get annoyed when people expect Israel to adhere to Geneva strictly yet are more lenient when it comes to the Palestinians. In some cases, say POW treatment, there's no downside to following the letter of the law despite what the other side is doing. But in a case like this, Geneva violations committed by one side ensure the same violations on the other.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:09 PM
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Wow, thats amazing.
What are the plates on teh vehicle? Which UN workers is it registered to? What agency is reponsible for the use of the vehicle? There needs to be an investigation, and the people that gave it to the militants should be executed. The only reason that you don't shoot at ambulances is because they are neutral. Not because its not nice, not because you feel bad for people, but because the ambulances are supposed to be neutral. After a vid like that, Isreal should really feel free to bomb any supicious ambulances.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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Okay, Yeah it is against the Geneva Convention, and yeah, I do believe this is part of why the israeli military sometimes target ambulances

(they don't blow all the emergency services vehicules either)

But! While I do think they suspect such utilisations at the UN, I'm pretty sure they don't condone it


In the end, it's part of the military doctrine they are using, Guerilla Tactics

If memory serves me well, we do suspected Saddam of using an ambulance to get around town during the Irak war? Seems a good old tactic being reused

My conclusion: While I don't support the idea (because it will lead civilians to be targeted in the future), from a military point of view, I think it is a good way to get troops around a given area.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:43 PM
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www.corpwatch.org...

IRAQ: US Private Guards Kill Baghdad Ambulance Crewman

Reuters journalists saw the dead crewman sprawled in the passenger seat of the ambulance. Clearly marked with a red crescent symbol, its windows had been shattered by bullets.



Happens all the time Israel and US forces shooting at ambulances.
There are many stories about this when the siege of Fallujah was happening.
So i dont see the shock.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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o yes

remembe this one





Ambulance drivers tell tales of horror

So Kasim Shaalan, who thought nothing more could shock him in this 13-day war, was shocked Sunday night when he closed the rear door of his ambulance and it exploded, seriously wounding two patients inside.



Note where the rocket hit.
No mistakes made here



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Hum I think the point here is that Sometimes, the use of lethal force against emergency vehicules is justified because some use it as a mean of hiding their forces

Of course, mistakes happen

I believe I would be subject to mistakes if I was in a stress-filled environnement with a loaded automatic weapon in my hands

Your articles also cite private guards, wich don't have the same kind of restraint the military training is supposed to furnish

Edit: Hum about your second article, it says wounded 2 patients inside? the missile used must have been pretty weak... Isn't it a sign of will to limit collateral damage?

[edit on 1-12-2006 by CanadianGlasnost]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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I have just one question.

How do we know that those were terrorists?



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
I have just one question.

How do we know that those were terrorists?


What do you call people who use ambulances then? Spies? Hardly since they aren't gathering intel so it has to be the other term, unless you just want to call them unlawful combatant.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
LOL guess you never seen how grenades explode. Its not like what you expect in every explosion thats supposed to blow big. And not to mention how the heck can you see his wound at night? Thats why theres no blood.

Actually, I've seen a couple grenades go off, live... with my own eyes.
I also used to build pyrotechnic devices. I have a brother was a blaster for years and another who's a chemical engineer. I know a fair amount about explosives.


I know that grenades don't blow up like you see in the movies. Very little fire, lots of dirt. It's not even the blast that is the most dangerous part. It's the shrapnel that's likely to do the most harm.

What strikes me fishy about that explosion is that it sounds like a low velosity blast. It cooked off slowly. Hence, the "Wump" instead of a "Band" or "Crack". The particals you see also move fairly slowly. It looks, to me, like a gunpowder charge.

Here's a clip of a handgrenade being tossed: Grenade
More Grenade tossing

Aside from issues with the blast (which still could be a grenade or IED since explosive things tend to blow off in odd ways under different cercumstances), there's other things that just don't seem right.

Why isn't the camera man running? Did no one find it a little odd that this guy was standing around on the street filming what appears to be an improvised rocketlauncher?
Why was everyone just standing around in the middle of the street just before all hell broke loose? Earlier, the street was totally empty, but just before those ambulances pulled up it's filled with people... people doing nothing.

The wounded guy still seems to be acting wounded rather than actually being wounded. He grabs his arm first, then switches to his shoulder... after someone points out that he should grasp his shoulder.

I'm not saying this video IS fake... I'm saying it just doesn't sit right with me.
This sort of staged event could be a powerful tool if you have a political agenda to promote. Thus, it should be scrutanized before accepted as evidence.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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No, actually you point out good observations

Just tough of somethiing else

Like you said, the cameraman is standing still

My idea is that, maybe the video isn't fake, but the cameraman was warned of something impending

Or remember september eleven? you would have people recording while the buildings were collapsing

As to why they don't seem to run away like crazies... Well I watched the video again and didnt see real treats...

Don't know... maybe people were relatively calm because they tough it wasnt serious? I already worked in an attraction park and one time we had a gas leak. Guess what? People wouldnt understand it was serious and were standing still... they might have been gassed to death If police hadnt come as reinforcements



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
What do you call people who use ambulances then? Spies? Hardly since they aren't gathering intel so it has to be the other term, unless you just want to call them unlawful combatant.

I don't have a specific name for a person who uses an ambulance.

What I would like to know is how someone can look at those people and say they are terrorists. What is the defining attribute of a terrorist? The fact that he/she carries a gun? The fact that he/she carries a gun and is not in a uniform? The fact that he/she is from a specific skin colour? The way they dress? The way other people look at them?

As I do not have any means to know and the video does not show any people committing any terrorist or even violent act, I just asked.

How do we know they are terrorists?



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
There needs to be an investigation ... The only reason that you don't shoot at ambulances is because they are neutral.


EXACTLY.

Ambulances and vehicles marked as 'Red Cross' or 'Red Cresent' are supposed to be free to come and go because they are there for neutral humanitarian reasons. For anyone to break with that is irresponsible and perhaps even criminal.

Every time anyone uses these vehicles for purposes other than the humanitarian ones they are designed for it opens up the probability that, in the future, no one will believe it when a real ambulance is trying to do some good.



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Weeeeell

what makes them \terrorist\unlawful combattant\(insertanyothertermyoumightlike\

For practical way of seeing things I'd say that

-they wear AK-47
-they do NOT war irakii uniforms
(subject to change, I believe iraki army plagued with members connected to insurgency)
They are a bunch of darkhaired, often bearbed
Oh and good point, you don't hear them speaking english between them

I think that must be the kind of typical targetting the Soldiers use



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by CanadianGlasnost
-they do NOT war irakii uniforms

I think this is supposed to be in Palestine, not Iraq.



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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Ops... My bad
I got into Irak because of my saddam example thingy



Yeah... You are right

Oh well, in both Irak and Palestine they must use similar tactics



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
Actually, I've seen a couple grenades go off, live... with my own eyes.
I also used to build pyrotechnic devices. I have a brother was a blaster for years and another who's a chemical engineer. I know a fair amount about explosives.


I know that grenades don't blow up like you see in the movies. Very little fire, lots of dirt. It's not even the blast that is the most dangerous part. It's the shrapnel that's likely to do the most harm.


Yes the fragmentation can be deadly to those who are nearby since its anti-personnel variant, but the explosion is not that impressive. And frag grenades have pyrotechnic device as a fuse ironically same as the civilians used for fireworks, looks similar.



What strikes me fishy about that explosion is that it sounds like a low velosity blast. It cooked off slowly. Hence, the "Wump" instead of a "Band" or "Crack". The particals you see also move fairly slowly. It looks, to me, like a gunpowder charge.


Depends on the conditions as to how the grenade was fired and where it impacted.

Look at this video at time 00:25 and you notice it sounds similar to the ambulance video.
www.liveleak.com...



Why isn't the camera man running? Did no one find it a little odd that this guy was standing around on the street filming what appears to be an improvised rocketlauncher?
Why was everyone just standing around in the middle of the street just before all hell broke loose? Earlier, the street was totally empty, but just before those ambulances pulled up it's filled with people... people doing nothing.


Depends on if the cameraman has guts to stay and record what he believes is worthy footage, not every cameraman is the same. And this guy thinks it won't be targeted since he believes cameraman can't be shot either by Israelis or by the Palestinians.


The wounded guy still seems to be acting wounded rather than actually being wounded. He grabs his arm first, then switches to his shoulder... after someone points out that he should grasp his shoulder.


What the heck you talking about, the wounded was grabbing his shoulder on his left, the guy on his right grabbed his other arm and took it away, thinking he is helping him.


I'm not saying this video IS fake... I'm saying it just doesn't sit right with me.
This sort of staged event could be a powerful tool if you have a political agenda to promote. Thus, it should be scrutanized before accepted as evidence.


Thats your view.



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