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“I think everyone felt good about where we ended up,” one person involved in the commission’s debates said after the group ended its meeting. “It is neither ‘cut and run’ nor ‘stay the course.’ ”
As described by the people involved in the deliberations, the bulk of the report by the Baker-Hamilton group focused on a recommendation that the United States devise a far more aggressive diplomatic initiative in the Middle East than Mr. Bush has been willing to try so far, including direct engagement with Iran and Syria. Initially, those contacts might be part of a regional conference on Iraq or broader Middle East peace issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian situation, but they would ultimately involve direct, high-level talks with Tehran and Damascus.
Mr. Bush has rejected such contacts until now, and he has also rejected withdrawal, declaring in Riga, Latvia, on Tuesday that while he will show flexibility, “there’s one thing I’m not going to do: I’m not going to pull the troops off the battlefield before the mission is complete.”
Commission members have said in recent days that they had to navigate around such declarations, or, as one said, “We had to move the national debate from whether to stay the course to how do we start down the path out.”
The report leaves unstated whether the 15 combat brigades that are the bulk of American fighting forces in Iraq would be brought home, or simply pulled back to bases in Iraq or in neighboring countries. (A brigade typically consists of 3,000 to 5,000 troops.) From those bases, they would still be responsible for protecting a substantial number of American troops who would remain in Iraq, including 70,000 or more American trainers, logistics experts and members of a rapid reaction force.
As one senior American military officer involved in Iraq strategy said, “The question is whether it doesn’t look like a timeline to Bush, and does to Maliki.”
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Sunday Iran was ready to help the United States and Britain in Iraq but only if they pledged to change their attitude and withdraw their troops.
"The Iranian nation is ready to help you get out of that swamp (in Iraq) on one condition ... you should pledge to correct your attitude," Ahmadinejad said in a televised speech to a parade of the Basij religious militia.
today.reuters.com...
Originally posted by rich23
Yup, saving face is much more important than saving Iraqi lives.
Oh, the US should be allowed to walk away with some shred of dignity? I've never heard such self-serving nonsense in my life. It's pathetic. The US threatens to invade Iran and then expects them to co-operate in cleaning up the mess they made? The US has got people inside Iran right now trying to destabilise the regime, and you want them to just roll over?
Get real.
The US is guilty of war crimes compunded by incompetence, and now they want people they have deliberately made enemies to help them out. "Shred of dignity" indeed. What about Iran's dignity? More to the point, what about their security.
Sometimes the inability of Americans to see the other side of the coin is nothing short of breathtaking.
Iran is being threatened by the US, their close neighbour is being plunged into a civil war that could engulf the region... of course they want the US to change their attitude.
The US really ought to be eating humble pie about now. They should be admitting their mistakes and looking to forge honest relationships. They should be damn well prepared to lose a little bit of dignity to atone for the royal ####-up they've made of Iraq.
Originally posted by rich23
The US threatens to invade Iran and then expects them to co-operate in cleaning up the mess they made? The US has got people inside Iran right now trying to destabilise the regime...
The US is guilty of war crimes compunded by incompetence, and now they want people they have deliberately made enemies to help them out.
[edit on 30-11-2006 by rich23]
Originally posted by jsobecky
Sorry, I was just responding to the many threads on ATS that says we must change our ways "because the world hates the US".
Where has the US threatened to invade Iran? As for destabilizing their regime, I hope they succeed.
Articles by Seymour Hersh and others have revealed that, as in both those earlier cases, the president has secretly directed the completion, though not yet execution, of military operational plans—not merely hypothetical “contingency plans” but constantly updated plans, with movement of forces and high states of readiness, for prompt implementation on command—for attacking a country that, unless attacked itself, poses no threat to the United States: in this case, Iran.
According to these reports, many high-level officers and government officials are convinced that our president will attempt to bring about regime change in Iran by air attack; that he and his vice president have long been no less committed, secretly, to doing so than they were to attacking Iraq; and that his secretary of defense is as madly optimistic about the prospects for fast, cheap military success there as he was in Iraq.
Even more ominously, Philip Giraldi, a former CIA official, reported in The American Conservative a year ago that Vice President Cheney’s office had directed contingency planning for “a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons” and that “several senior Air Force officers” involved in the planning were “appalled at the implications of what they are doing—that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack—but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objection.”
Several of Hersh’s sources have confirmed both the detailed operational planning for use of nuclear weapons against deep underground Iranian installations and military resistance to this prospect, which led several senior officials to consider resigning. Hersh notes that opposition by the Joint Chiefs in April led to White House withdrawal of the “nuclear option”—for now, I would say. The operational plans remain in existence, to be drawn upon for a “decisive” blow if the president deems it necessary.
I couldn't care less about Iran's dignity or security. Remember, this is a regime that openly sponsors terrorism.
And sometimes the ploy to deflect the debate onto what the US is guilty of as a means of justifying acts of terrorism becomes so transparent that it is ridiculous.
The current internecine violence in Iraq would have happened even if the US would have left the day after Saddam was captured.
And Iran is fueling it with training and arms because it is in Iran's best interests to have a destabilized Iraq.
Yes, they should apologize to the American people for allowing the war to be run by a bunch of US-hating apologists and left-wing politicians instead of fighting the war the right way.
Originally posted by rich23
Sorry, I totally forgot that the rest of the world "hates you for your freedoms." (You actually believe that? It's pitiful.) There are plenty of reasons why the US is unpopular, but the ones you want to hear are: we're just jealous, and you're misunderstood. Ahhhh, there there.
This is actually quite tedious. Have you really missed all the threads on ATS, let alone articles elsewhere, talking about US threats to Iran? How it was part of "Securing the Realm" and "Rebuilding America's Defenses"? How Bush and Cheney are actually having battle plans constantly updated, not content with the carnage he's created in Iraq? That these plans involve using nuclear weapons?
I couldn't care less about Iran's dignity or security. Remember, this is a regime that openly sponsors terrorism.
Fortunately, your opinion is not really at issue here.
Show me any part of any of my posts where I've justified acts of terrorism. Please.
Well... nice crystal ball you have there. Actually, by early summer 2003, Sunni and Shia were uniting to drive out the invaders until a little clandestine campaign set them against each other.
Just how is it beneficial to Iran to have a violent civil war raging on their doorstep? Are they equipped to handle the million-plus refugees that have come streaming across the border? I doubt it. Please answer this question. I am agog to know what benefits they gain from their neighbour embroiled in a violent civil war.
Originally posted by jsobecky
The existence of a plan does not an action make. And Seymour Hersh is a putz.
Show me any part of any of my posts where I've justified acts of terrorism. Please.
Your obsequious support for and defense of the Iranian regime.
It must not have been too strong of a plan, if a little clandestine operation took it down.
Iraq has proven oil reserves of 112 billion barrels of oil and possible uncharted reserves of up to 400 billion barrels. That's more than SA. Iran would love to control that oil.