America: Incarceration Nation - 7,000,000 on Probation, Parole, and in Jail!

New DOJ report... I don't really have too much to say, the numbers speak for themselves.

In absolute numbers an estimated 650,400 inmates in State prison at yearend 2003 (the latest available offense data) were held for violent offenses: 151,500 for murder, 176,600 for robbery, 124,200 for assault, and 148,800 for rape and other sexual assaults (table 12). In addition, 262,000 inmates were held for property offenses, 250,900 for drug offenses, and 86,400 for public-order offenses.

Prisoners sentenced for drug offenses constitute the largest group of Federal inmates (55%) in 2003, down from 60% in 1995 (table 14). On September 30, 2003, the date of the latest available data in the Federal Justice Statistics Program, Federal prisons held 86,972 sentenced drug offenders, compared to 52,782 at yearend 1995.

US DOJ: Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think it has a lot to do with our values, or lack thereof.

Says the guy with a cig smoking monkey avie.

Seriously, we are suffering from a rather large degradation in moral/social values. I'm not talking about sex, drugs, or rock and roll... I'm talking about greed. I've been talking with some oldtimers about this and they tend to agree. Not all that long ago people were more willing to help eachother out. If you had money and your nabor didn't, it was considered your social responcibility to do something nice for him. Now, we're so obsessed with making money and owning things that we don't have any idea what happyness is unless there's a price-tag afixed to it.

I personally believe that much of this has to do with mass-media advertising and pop-culture. From a very young age we've been conditioned to believe that our goals in life should all be focused on owing things and being rockstars. You rarely see a single character on TV that has a believable average standard of living. Hell, look at "Friends". Joey is a starving actor who rarely gets parts. Pheobe is a seldom employed (and god-awful) busker. Do these people starve or go on welfare? No... they live in nice apartments in Newyork.

Then there's pop music. MY god. Have you ever stopped to listen to the lyrics of most of the crap that's spewed forth from top 40 lists? It's all pap. Wining about getting caught cheating. Bragging about how many cars they own. Mouthing off about how many chicks they can bag in a night. Wussy moaning about how unfair it is that they are rich and famous, but they just want to be "normal". GAH!

DO NOT get me started on hip-hop culture and the celibration of getto, bling, gats, and hoes. It would get messy quickly.

Advertising. I honestly think I've developed and allergy to advertising and marketing. The more marketing I'm hit with, the less compelled to purchase that product. Last week I went to see Deja Vu when I was hit with a big screen James Bond tie-in ad for Smirnof. Since then, I've stopped buying it in favor for Stoli. When I walk into a corner store for a drink, there's all these loud, obnoxious, and faddish containers all aimed to catch my eye for that all important impulse buy. Farq it, I grab the least assuming thing on the shelf that is neither a Coke nor a Pepsi product.
Overall, these days marketing doesn't make me want to buy anything... it makes me want to break things and hurt marketing executives.

Hrm. I seem to have ranted.
Oh well, deal with it.

Police arrested an estimated 786,545 persons for marijuana violations in 2005, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 42.6 percent of all drug arrests in the United States

Among state prisoners, approximately 21 percent are behind bars for drug violations

Ok now...lets say that 7 million people are locked up currently, and 21% of those people were for drug offensense...as a guess, lets say that marijuana violaters make about about 46% of that group, as a estimate of roughly how many people are in jail in that drug group....

that's about 676 , 200 out of 7 million people locked up right now for marijuana offenses. i could see how that number could be accurate. it sounds about right if you look at the total number, the group arrested, and the probable percentage of people to be serving time for the offense...

here is why this point is valid. 7 million people locked up is ridiculous. there is something wrong in our society if we have that many people incarcerated. that is a failed society right there. something happened with our religious beliefs, education system, or laws.

trying to blame these problems like pop culture or other moral things in our society..is valid. but that is something that is very hard to gauge. how can you measure the moral affect of our media on people. every person reacts different to what he sees.

you can kind of gauge how well our education system is working. is enough money being given to underprivledged public schools? how well are people being prepared at college for real life work experience? these are a bit easier, because (if the government really cared..) the government could give more funding to after school programs, and fund better school curriculums.

and as for laws...i think if it would even reduce the prison population by 5 or 6%, it would be beneficial for the usa government to seriously consider declassifing THC as a narcotic.

But unfortunatley..the government has a problem admiting when they are wrong. the usa gov does not like to reverse laws, change them, or add new ones. one of the biggest problems in the country is that laws aren't critizied with more care..so tragically until someone forces the government to relize that they are hurting the common man with this one law,there will be no justice.

i don't think that places that keep it legal are different from usa. canda is getting pretty popular with their relxed laws..i hear BC is the place to be...are we trying to say that we are more immature than canada and amsterdam? nicotene, caffene, alchohol, and fast food, are all about as addictive as thc. i agree there has been no scientific proof (at least none i've ever heard) that proved that canibis is more harmful than any of these substances.

but the gov blames everyone but themselves, and that's why they create the mentality of negativity toward any recreational activity that is more "adult". is it liqours fault that there are so many drunk drivers? the answer is no...lack of education about the effects of alchohol, poor judgement , and lack of respect for yourself and others can be blamed for that.

those are character flaws. we need to stop spending so much time worrying that everything in life is corrupting us, and the world is nothing but demon 666 hellvision. people should be taught why sometimes people like to drink. we shouldn't teach people to bastardize anyone who decides to have a mental release now and again.

the less time we spend crucifying people, and the more time we spend showing those people that are inclined to partake in any type of mind altering act, the more responsible we will make at least SOME users in the end. even if it saves only a few lives...then at least it will have done some good.

the problem is that people aren't going to stop doing thc. if you really think keeping it illegal, prevents teens from trying it..you're wrong. it makes it more desireable. in fact, teens can get pot easier than they can get booze. it doesn't stop adults from smoking a lot, and yes some make poor choices..but those people would make poor life decisions anyway, because they have a flaw in their nature (when it comes to that respect).

it's baffling why the drug would be talked about on so many forums, and avenues of media. come on many people have their favorite "Stoner flick"...and "back in the day" people used to smoke reefer on the streets. if you were alive in 1965 and you wanted a smoke, it would have been something you got without thinking about it.

blame Regan administration and "zero tolerance" for killing that in the past 20 or so years though....that's when the crackdown on all drugs began, because coke was being hustled like mad. however i belive thc was wrongly bastardized in this crackdown.

but i dunno, i think one day it will be legal. the problem is people won't fight for anythign anymore...i bet "the movement" would take more notice, if every year people gathered at the reflecting pool like they did in the civil rights days.

if every year a few hundered thousand people showed up to deliver speeches, spread education about all the facts, and peacefully assemble...someone would eventually notice.

the media would be forced to cover it eventually, becasuse everyone would know about it. sure the gov would try and shut it down, but if people simply gathered and did not shout, just merley assembled and talked almost in private, it would work. we can still protest in america, but there is a bit of price to pay now. but someone would notice..eventually congress would be forced to at least release a formal statement about the issue. hopefully that would be the start of progress...

the government simply makes to much money to change their stance and ways.

it's quite sickening really.

the fact people won't massivley assemble on a serious level to finaly make some real movment on this law, is sickening. and the fact the gov made it this way in the first place, is probly even more repulsive.

You have voted Spawwwn for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Excellent post. I may print it out. You managed to cover every angle of the pro-legalization argument, even the stuff we can't be completely sure about, like the media's effect on 'youth culture.'

I especially enjoyed this part.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
people should be taught why sometimes people like to drink. we shouldn't teach people to bastardize anyone who decides to have a mental release now and again.

How right you are! I had a Christian fundamentalist friend ask me, why do you drink? (Not 'a lot,' she meant 'ever') Puzzled at her question, I was like, why not?

Who are these people who don't have a drink every once in a while, or champagne at New Year's? Where do they come from?



[edit for spelling]

[edit on 1-12-2006 by HarlemHottie]

Originally posted by Spawwwn

Police arrested an estimated 786,545 persons for marijuana violations in 2005, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 42.6 percent of all drug arrests in the United States

Among state prisoners, approximately 21 percent are behind bars for drug violations

Ok now...lets say that 7 million people are locked up currently, and 21% of those people were for drug offensense...as a guess, lets say that marijuana violaters make about about 46% of that group, as a estimate of roughly how many people are in jail in that drug group....

that's about 676 , 200 out of 7 million people locked up right now for marijuana offenses. i could see how that number could be accurate. it sounds about right if you look at the total number, the group arrested, and the probable percentage of people to be serving time for the offense...

The report said there were 7 million locked up OR on probation/parole. DOJ reports there are 2.3 million incarcerated ... of theat 700,000 are in local (ie county/city jails) meaning they are either pending trials or have been committed of some offense that requires less than a year of jail time. According to this DOJ bulletin (already provided by another member) 50% prisoners in STATE systems are violent offenders (rape, murder, robbery, manslaughter, felony assualts, etc) and 20% are drug offenders. The TOTAL # of drug offenders incarcerated in both federal and state prison systems is 336,000.

The total FEDERAL PRISONER count is 158,000 compared to STATE PRISONER counts of 1.25 million. The fact that 50% of state prisoners are violent, another 21% are property criminals makes me feel pretty confident with the people we have locked away. Getting back to the drug offenses, yeah maybe not all of those 300K + people need to be locked away. But how many are in there for smoking a joint vs carrying 20 pounds of coc aine or meth??

I'm not particularly for or against legalizing marijuana (THC) but I can see the argument for it. But we can't assume all the people in jail are there for that particular drug. We have to factor in what role they played in the drug sales/traders. At least here in California, where one can get a pot prescription, most personal use amounts of marijuana are misdemeanors and other than probation or a couple weeks in a county jail there isn't much consequence to the crime. So the drug offenders in prison have done something to bump up the crime to a felony, and that for me is where the wrinkle lies.

Originally posted by Spawwwn

Police arrested an estimated 786,545 persons for marijuana violations in 2005, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 42.6 percent of all drug arrests in the United States

Among state prisoners, approximately 21 percent are behind bars for drug violations

Ok now...lets say that 7 million people are locked up currently, and 21% of those people were for drug offensense...as a guess, lets say that marijuana violaters make about about 46% of that group, as a estimate of roughly how many people are in jail in that drug group....

that's about 676 , 200 out of 7 million people locked up right now for marijuana offenses. i could see how that number could be accurate. it sounds about right if you look at the total number, the group arrested, and the probable percentage of people to be serving time for the offense...

The report said there were 7 million locked up OR on probation/parole. DOJ reports there are 2.3 million incarcerated ... of theat 700,000 are in local (ie county/city jails) meaning they are either pending trials or have been committed of some offense that requires less than a year of jail time. According to this DOJ bulletin (already provided by another member) 50% prisoners in STATE systems are violent offenders (rape, murder, robbery, manslaughter, felony assualts, etc) and 20% are drug offenders. The TOTAL # of drug offenders incarcerated in both federal and state prison systems is 336,000.

The total FEDERAL PRISONER count is 158,000 compared to STATE PRISONER counts of 1.25 million. The fact that 50% of state prisoners are violent, another 21% are property criminals makes me feel pretty confident with the people we have locked away. Getting back to the drug offenses, yeah maybe not all of those 300K + people need to be locked away. But how many are in there for smoking a joint vs carrying 20 pounds of coc aine or meth??

I'm not particularly for or against legalizing marijuana (THC) but I can see the argument for it. But we can't assume all the people in jail are there for that particular drug. We have to factor in what role they played in the drug sales/traders. At least here in California, where one can get a pot prescription, most personal use amounts of marijuana are misdemeanors and other than probation or a couple weeks in a county jail there isn't much consequence to the crime. So the drug offenders in prison have done something to bump up the crime to a felony, and that for me is where the wrinkle lies.