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Mars, An Alpine Vacation

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posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 11:19 PM
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Oh nice link. Wow, that is just creepy and weird. Cool map though. Very helpful.




posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 05:45 AM
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Wow, someof those pics are amazing. The light out of the cave and crashed disc are very strange indeed. After reading the Montauk project I guess its possible that something is underground on mars after all.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Saviour Of The Real

www.msss.com...


If you have a number you can save time by clickingYou can also click on the gallery menu...

www.msss.com...

pick which section you want determined by the first three digits ie M04

www.msss.com...

then type in the numbers ....

use html will load the detail page
M0402195.html

use .gif will load the high res image
M04/M0402195.gif

Saves a lot of time finding a specific image



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by princeea
Wow, someof those pics are amazing. The light out of the cave and crashed disc are very strange indeed. After reading the Montauk project I guess its possible that something is underground on mars after all.

It's amazing how people see some thing from nothing LOL.
Crashed ufo's LOL.



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by SKUNK
It's amazing how people see some thing from nothing LOL.
Crashed ufo's LOL.


Its amazing how totally blind some people are to what IS out there...

And what NASA and the rest have been hiding from you...

like the full color Clementine pictures...






Time to wake up and smell the coffee... which reminds me.....

JAVA TIME!!!



posted on Dec, 12 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Time to wake up and smell the coffee... which reminds me.....

JAVA TIME!!!


Smell the coffee?? Man. I've had three cups already after seeing the Clementine pic you posted above!! Amazing,

Now is that for real??
I mean it's not colorized etc?? Looks like a city at night! Probably the Martians have late night binges too!



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh

Originally posted by zorgon
Time to wake up and smell the coffee... which reminds me.....

JAVA TIME!!!


Smell the coffee?? Man. I've had three cups already after seeing the Clementine pic you posted above!! Amazing,

Now is that for real??
I mean it's not colorized etc?? Looks like a city at night! Probably the Martians have late night binges too!


THAT is the Moon.

We have a ton of very, well unsetlling pics from the moon, the way it really looks. I gotta tell ya, that place is definitely weird. So far, it's weirder than mars.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
Looks like a city at night! Probably the Martians have late night binges too!



Originally posted by undo
THAT is the Moon.


Yeah! I know. But I thought the Martians had a base there? I mean they need a weekend off too, what with all them old geysers on Mars!! (pun unintended!!!)




[edit on 13-12-2006 by mikesingh]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:23 AM
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Great thread. I followed one of the links on the first page of this thread and looked around a little. I found this picture that has a pretty odd looking circle formation in it.



ida.wr.usgs.gov...



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:59 AM
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Zorgon can you link me to some detailed Clementine pictures. Or other pictures that are off good quality, i don't want any of the blurry bull (patty) where people outline stuff that isn't even there.
Thx mate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edited and replaced censor circumvention

[edit on 13/12/06 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by undo
Tube close-up.

Among other things, I'm a graphical artist. My eye is trained to see depth and variation in color. The right tube is not only emitting the "dust" which looks as likely to be liquid as not, it's also raised above the landscape and emitting the "dust".



If it is raised above the landscape one important thing is missing.
Shadows!!!!!
It can be argued that the lets call it the "squirter" is raised above ground, but what of the stuff that comes from it, there are no shadows.
The anomalie is either a geyser,erosion or a structure of some kind(unlikely)



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by SKUNK
If it is raised above the landscape one important thing is missing.
Shadows!!!!!
It can be argued that the lets call it the "squirter" is raised above ground, but what of the stuff that comes from it, there are no shadows.
The anomalie is either a geyser,erosion or a structure of some kind(unlikely)


Dude, it's pretty obvious you haven't had the time to surf this thread!! @@:
Go to page 2, scroll down about midway and eureka! You'll find a post by mikesingh, I mean me, where I've annotated this image in glorious false color!

Now can you make out the shadow made by the 'spout'?
:

Cheers!


[edit on 13-12-2006 by mikesingh]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by mikesingh
Now can you make out the shadow made by the 'spout'?
:

And did you read page 4?

If I had not mixed the values, you can see on this post that the light comes from a direction from where it could not cast a shadow where you say the shadow of the 'spout' falls.



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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Arrrggg not the SHADOWS again LOL

Okay lets assume for a second that it IS a spray... geyser whatever...

Which angle relative to the surface is it going at? If its going straight up, Like most geysers do, though we are looking at it at an angle where exactly do you calculate the shadow would be?

And what figures do you have to calculate which angle the spray actually is relative to the ground?

I have seen a lot of photos of Old Faithful... no shadow... so I guess that means Old Faithfull has to be a rock formation too.

:shk:



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:18 PM
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So Mikey...

That area within that color picture....Look familiar?

Here is another Clementine image you posted a while back...

Same location Reiner Gamma...



[edit on 13-12-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 13 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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Well according to the bigger image you posted Zorgon, that black square is not there, and instead, we can see alot of new and very weird details. IS the black square a glitch of some kind or have they edited it out of the bigger picture? It sure looks familar. I think i've seen someone post a black square from the clementine pics before. I wonder if this is the same one.



posted on Dec, 15 2006 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by undo
Well according to the bigger image you posted Zorgon, that black square is not there, and instead, we can see alot of new and very weird details. IS the black square a glitch of some kind or have they edited it out of the bigger picture? It sure looks familar. I think i've seen someone post a black square from the clementine pics before. I wonder if this is the same one.

It was mikesingh that posted that image, in this post.

That black rectangle does not appear on the "Clementine Lunar Map 2.0 (Beta)"



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
It was mikesingh that posted that image, in this post


Yes I know that...
Hence my lines ABOVE that picture... The comment was directed at mike

So Mikey...
That area within that color picture....Look familiar?
Here is another Clementine image you posted a while back...


:bash:

Nice site ArMap

"Clementine Lunar Map 2.0 (Beta)"

Come back at midnight and see mine


[edit on 16-12-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by Terapin
My favorite is when people say "it looks like." I have a friend who has a potatoe chip that "looks like" Abraham Lincoln. Doesn't mean much however.


Those are interesting, yes.


"Any photo requiring equal parts interpretation and imagination (photos sometimes characterized as ‘blobsquatches’) should be discounted."*


If it's convention you want to believe in that is most certainly the best way to go about proof of possible alternatives.


Lets see some of you clever people come up with more than imagination. Lets see some of you come up with some science to back up your postulations.


So i guess you have not read much related to this topic on ATS?


There is plenty of information online about geology, etc, that Im certain you could use. Anyone can say, "this looks like" but you need to offer some better evidence than that.


And many have in the past, where were you at the time?


Also whenever you post a link to a photo, or post a photo online, you should also post a link to the entire photo and not just some section that you have cropped for your convienience.


If it's from a official source you can crop it as much if you like as long as you always include a link to the original material. This is the norm on many of these investigative sites so what is your problem?


Seeing the whole photo is important so that details can bee seen in comparison to the surrounding area.


What we would do without or advice and guidance i have no idea!


Originally posted by Terapin
Grainy photos due little justice to the science being done on and above Mars.


So why do we get stuck with grainy photo's from official data strips? I mean why do they refuse to send the best equipment they have?


You can blow up any photo to "find" what ever you wish but it means little.


No you can not as zooming does not add actual data.


Mars Express data is still streaming down from HRSC, MARSIS, Omega but also the probe's other instruments, PFS, SPICAM, ASPERA, and MaRS. They are probing all aspects of the Martian environment – studying atmospheric gases,


There is plenty of equipment but their not really designed to figure out the things we would be most interested in, strangely.


searching for eventual biological processes,


Which instrument is looking for this btw? Which expert on the NASA team is qualified to evaluate the findings against such processes on Earth?


ng high altitude clouds and hidden volcanoes and digging into the scavenging effects of the solar wind.



Where there is water, there could be life. Many investigations on Earth have turned up extremophiles -- microbes living in frigid conditions, thriving in extremely salty water, and gathering around volcanic vents. Last month scientists announced the discovery of bacteria that had survived in a state of frozen suspension for 32,000 years.

"We're now seeing geological characteristics on Mars that could be related to life," Head said. "But we're a long way from knowing that life does indeed exist. The glacial deposits we studied would be accessible for sampling in future space missions. If we had ice to study, we would know a lot more about climate change on Mars and whether life is a possibility there."

"The three papers provide an overwhelming case for new thinking about recent geological activity on Mars," writes Baker in an analysis of the work.

Baker said the findings support a 1991 hypothesis, then considered outrageous, that Mars has experienced episodes of cataclysmic flooding in modern times. Water is thought to have formed temporary seas, but researchers had long assumed it all evaporated into the thin Martian air.

Many scientists now agree that much of the water remained.

www.space.com...




What is important now, Foing added, is to identify what niches life on Mars could have retreated to and then survived within for the last three billion years.
Mars Express has found levels of methane in the planets atmosphere. These measurements are puzzling, Foing said, and could be interpreted as the possible signature of life on Mars today.

"We did not expect to have it," he said, "so its a discovery."

Another cause of the methane could be from the presence of active volcanism. Indeed, Mars Express is prodding scientists to consider currently active volcanism in terms of thermal vents that could serve as comfy niches for potential ecosystems.

"Because Mars has a large variety of potential habitats for life, there is need for follow-up measurement to better understand Mars globally and also locally," Foing said.

www.space.com...



Spirit and Opportunity, the two robots currently exploring the red planet under NASAs Mars Exploration Rover (MER) mission, have proved that water shaped the development of rocks on the planets surface. Meanwhile, Europes Mars Express spacecraft now orbiting the planet is preparing to unfurl a radar instrument that, researchers say, might find pockets of liquid water in subsurface caves or voids.

"We now know that big areas on the planet were made of soluble rock," said Steven Squyres, a Cornell University astronomer and the science team leader for NASAs Mars rover mission, in an interview. "So if theres rock that can be dissolved by water, the idea of such a cave is perfectly sensible."

Recent reports by U.S. and European researchers have hinted at connections between the presence of methane and other gases in Mars atmosphere and the possibility of water-harboring subsurface caves capable of sustaining life.

www.space.com...



There is no doubt in Mummas mind that something is going on at Mars. "Mars was wetwas it also aliveor is it now alive?"

But "alive" could be geologically alive and not necessarily biologically alive, Mumma said.

"Or Mars could be biologically alive," he added. "Or maybe both. So to me thats the real issue. Now we think that Mars is not a dead planet. Even if its just geology that is occurring and releasing this methanethats pretty darn interesting. And the geologists are very excited about this prospect."

www.space.com...



The underground iceberg is just 2 million to 5 million years old -- recent in geologic terms. It formed when early hominids were roaming Earth.

The feature suggests that "vast flooding events, which are known to have occurred from beneath Mars surface throughout its geological history, still happen," the Muller, Murray and their colleagues write. "The presence of liquid water for thousands of millions of years, even beneath the surface, is a possible habitat in which primitive life may have developed, and might still be surviving now. Clearly this must now be considered as a prime site for future missions looking for life."

The researchers propose that the ice has been protected from sublimation by an overlying layer of volcanic ash.

www.space.com...



Furthermore, he says winds should spread water vapour through the atmosphere too quickly for it to be concentrated in certain spots. "It would take a tremendous source of water in the surface to pump water into the atmosphere faster than it would be redistributed," he says.

Krasnopolsky, standing by his methane detection, says winds should spread the trace amounts of methane around too. He believes the methane he detected is produced by bacteria that live in "oases" where liquid water can exist - however briefly - on the Martian surface, due to heating by sunlight or by a hydrothermal source.

He argues that a non-biological source of methane is unlikely because crater-counting methods suggest no surface lava on Mars is younger than 10 million years old.

But he will not rule out the possibility that underground bubbles of methane from ancient volcanism might somehow be brought to the surface to replenish the atmosphere.

www.newscientist.com...




The existence of the methane has been largely settled by a set of detailed, high-resolution spectral observations from the 8-metre Gemini telescope, recorded by Mumma's team. They clearly identified two separate methane lines, making a much firmer case than their previous single-line detections, and similar findings of two other groups.

"It's real," say Stephen Squyres, science team leader for NASA's twin Mars rovers. The important thing now, he told New Scientist, is to figure out where it's coming from and where it's going.

Adding to the intrigue are new calculations by Atreya showing that dust devils and storms on Mars - known to be frequent and intense - must be producing vast quantities of hydrogen peroxide. This highly reactive oxidant was inferred to exist on Mars after the 1976 Viking experiments, but not actually detected until 2003.

All this oxidant must be destroying the methane at a very high rate, Atreya said on Friday. That could explain Marss uneven distribution of methane - observed by Mummas team and others - as the storms are local and temporary.

But it also implies that methane is being produced at a much higher rate than its present concentration would suggest. If so, cometary or volcanic sources become even more unlikely, and the prospect of a living source becomes slightly more plausible.

www.newscientist.com...



posted on Dec, 16 2006 @ 02:57 AM
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Continued


The first thing to understand is how exactly the methane is distributed in the Martian atmosphere, says Vittorio Formisano, Principal Investigator for the PFS instrument. Since the methane presence is so small, we need to take more measurements. Only then will we have enough data to make a statistical analysis and understand whether there are regions of the atmosphere where methane is more concentrated.

Once this is done, scientists will try to establish a link between the planet-wide distribution of methane and possible atmospheric or surface processes that may produce it. Based on our experience on Earth, the methane production could be linked to volcanic or hydro-thermal activity on Mars. The High Resolution Stereo camera (HRSC) on Mars Express could help us identify visible activity, if it exists, on the surface of the planet, continues Formisano. Clearly, if it was the case, this would imply a very important consequence, as present volcanic activity had never been detected so far on Mars.

Other hypotheses could also be considered. On Earth, methane is a by-product of biological activity, such as fermentation. If we have to exclude the volcanic hypothesis, we could still consider the possibility of life, concludes Formisano.

www.esa.int...



Methane is not a stable molecule in the Martian atmosphere. If it was not replenished in some way, it would only last a few hundred years before it vanished.

Scientists see two possibilities, both of them scientifically important, but one of them is sensational.

It is possible that the methane is being produced by volcanic activity. Lava deposited on to the surface, or released underground, could produce the gas.

This explanation has some difficulties, however. So far, no active volcanic hotspots have been detected on the planet by the many spacecraft currently in orbit.

If active volcanism were responsible then it would be a major discovery with important implications. The heat released by any volcanism would melt the vast quantities of sub-surface ice discovered on the planet, producing an environment suitable for life.

news.bbc.co.uk...


So maybe time you do some research and stop accusing others?


There are also some great NEW images in High Resolution that are fully pan/tilt and zoomable that everyone should look at. You can see them at:
hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu...
check out the "Zoomify images"


And?


I know that I have opened up another can of worms and that there will be people who still "find" cities, pyramids and dragons, but for the rest of us, enjoy some spectacular science and take a close up look at another world.


What you know about the scientific discoveries made about Mars moves me to tears and it is interesting that you have managed to convince yourself that you are informed without apparently even being aware of what main stream scientist are discussing.

Stellar

[edit on 16-12-2006 by StellarX]



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